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Re: Debunking Samael Aun Weor
Posted by: rrmoderator ()
Date: August 24, 2013 11:04PM


See []

There was a data base file backup failure.

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Re: Debunking Samael Aun Weor
Posted by: EverVigilant ()
Date: September 17, 2014 12:07AM

Oh wow, great to see the data back! I'd put a lot of effort into this thread.

Thought I'd check in to see how all my buddies in the astral realm are doing?

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Re: Debunking Samael Aun Weor
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: September 17, 2014 04:04AM

Dear EverV:

I have never been involved with Aeon Weor.

Am curious about the terminology, as it seems to overlap with a lot of
other systems.

What is this 'astral realm'?

And does AW postulate levels or planes of realization or evolution?

Ive been struck by how many belief systems have some form of this 7 levels,
9 levels, etc.

Seems to be like a basic recipe that has a lot of appeal, just the
way a basic recipe for cake mix can be changed in a multitude of
way by adding flavors of different kinds, in different combos.

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Re: Debunking Samael Aun Weor
Posted by: EverVigilant ()
Date: September 26, 2014 11:37AM

Hey Corboy,

As I understood it, the Astral is this sort of "place" that is actually inside you, and all your demons live there. It's where you go when you dream. It's very hard for a beginner to navigate because you have to learn to "see through" your dreams: the complexes/demons/egos (whatever you call them) which have a pretty large amount of control over you in waking life have pretty much total control over you in the astral realm, hence the typical total inability to control ourselves in dreams and the instability of the environment and instability of logic in dreams.

Through meditation and other practices, we increase our consciousness in our waking life, and learn to control ourselves better. This "trickles down" into your dreams. One thing you'll notice as you start these meditation and other practices (to keep yourself consciously aware and out of daydreams and whatnot in waking life), is that your dreams become more lucid. You start to have that "Oh, I'm dreaming" moment more often. This much I can attest to in personal experience: as I did SAW's practices I started having lucid dreams more often. But that is as far as I got, if only because I withdrew from the movement before I got any farther.

According to the teaching as I understand it, you are supposed to get more and more conscious in your waking life, then more and more conscious in your dream life. As all your dreams become lucid, you will start to "see through" them, in the sense of having greater insight into what they mean. This gives you a huge edge in battling your egos. In waking life you are just meditating and trying not to let your desires, etc. get the best of you. But in the astral (dream) realm, you can actually see your egos at work weaving the dream picture, and see your egos in personified form interacting with you in the dreams.

Eventually, as you become an adept at this work, you see through the egos at work in your dreams so well that your dreams start to actually stabilize. This is really where the phrase "astral realm" comes into play. The dream world now becomes this sort of other world that you can explore in a more or less rational fashion. You learn to enter and exit the astral realm at will, meaning you don't have to be tired and fall asleep per se, you can just lie down and whisk yourself off whenever you want to.

Although it is "internal", since we are all connected you can actually meet and work with other adepts in the astral realm. It really starts to become this other world. You can visit the "Great White Lodge" (or something like that) where all the best saints working for the salvation of humanity are hard at work.

The rabbit hole goes deeper, too. Get good enough in the astral realm and you can work in other ones, I think one of them is called the "Causal" realm.

The goal is to destroy the egos to achieve complete and total consciousness. The whole reason you play around in the astral realm is to take the fight to them. Apparently it gets perilous as you start to clear up the astral realm: your demons see the threat and work extra hard to destroy you. There are all kinds of defensive prayers and mantras and stuff you are supposed to be prepared with before you start doing this stuff in earnest.

Some of the guys at the retreat were talking about being in the astral together. It made me a little envious and wanting to strive to reach that point. From personal experience I can attest to meditation and waking awareness exercises contributing to an increase in lucid dreams. So there is at least something to that part, that much I can say for sure. It's something I would consider exploring again if I didn't have better things to do with my time.

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Re: Debunking Samael Aun Weor
Date: October 24, 2014 11:05PM

Hi everyone,

I've been through a huge roller coaster of turmoil this year. I kind of lost steam beforehand with the loss of the data, but I'm so glad to see it's back.

The turmoil is still going on, but I might be back to debunking modern gnosticism after the new year.

Stay tuned,

Lone Flame

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Re: Debunking Samael Aun Weor
Date: February 14, 2015 02:00PM

Hi everyone,

I'm ba-ack!

I've finally gotten my ducks in a row academically, so I'm cracking my knuckles getting ready to give the modern gnostic movements a hell of a time again.

I'll start with a little appetizer of going after Rabolu, a spinoff of SAW's modern movement. Here is a link to a short debunking:


I think I'll be expanding on debunking that little gem (plus his other two works) soon while I work on Samael stuff in general.

Here's a Rational Wiki link about Hercolubus.


and finally, to top off the appetizers, a funny video from some random guy:


Enjoy. I'm back and ready for action.

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Re: Debunking Samael Aun Weor
Posted by: jill w ()
Date: February 14, 2015 10:49PM

Going back through the different threads of this site has been extremely helpful.

These posts have given me the information needed to recognize the social predators and scam artists that are out there hunting for unsuspecting good people.

When I saw this new post today I started to read it but had no idea who Samael Aun Weor was.

Then I put his name into WIKI and read about this man. Wow!

What strikes me is the ability he had to persuade people into thinking his way.

My question....Is there any cross over or similarities to Werner Erhard or to others that have started the LARGE GROUP THERAPY GROUPS?

Was Samael Aun Weor aware of Scientology?

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Re: Debunking Samael Aun Weor
Date: February 15, 2015 01:05PM

Hi Jill,

I looked into it with a quick Google search, but came up with no connections to Werner Erhard (he looks like a nasty individual himself).

As for SAW having a knowledge of Scientology, I don't think there was a connection there, either. SAW's first book was written in 1950, while Dianetics (L. Ron Hubbard's first Scientology book) was written in 1952.

However, I have heard of modern gnosticism being called "Latin America's Answer to Scientology." Here's a link to a webpage where it is called that (it also talks about another spinoff of SAW's gnosticism by yet another unscrupulous individual):



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Gnosticisms -- many versions same UR - script
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: February 15, 2015 11:23PM

Gnosticism often emerges within mainstream religious communities.

It sees a matter and the body
as either impediment or something to be controlled and disciplined
in the name of spiritual development, toward becoming
a New Man or Super Man or whatever term is favored.

Western Gnosticism claimed Pythagoras as a precursor.
Pythagoras taught a theory of reincarnation.


When Europeans gained exposure to Hindu doctrines, some of the
modern gnostic systems incorporated Hindu concepts of reincarnation.
karma, etc.

Gnostic systems posit levels of development, often seven levels.

Plato, in his Timeaus dialogue, created a cosmos myth that influenced
neoplatonism and many gnostic systems. Plato began
with the 7 known planets of the time.


soul theory

mystery religion: Platonists

In the Timaeus, which is an exposition of his theory of the universe, Plato also developed his theory of the soul. The earth is surrounded by the spheres of the seven planets; the eighth sphere is that of the fixed stars. Beyond the eighth sphere is the realm of the divine.

Late Antique Neoplatonism (1st to 4th Century C.E)


Islamic scholars, including many Sufis obtained knowledge of
Greek philosophy filtered through neoplatonic texts


Gnosticism -- Seven levels


SAW -Seven Levels


You can see how gnostic systems tend to be so very similar. Laughably
the teacher in each system claims its uniqueness!

In modern times (late 19th Century) Helena Blavatsky, with her
editorial assistants, produced books which co mingled
old neoplatonic and gnostic Western occult systems alongside
what was then known of Buddhism and Hinduism, creating Blavatsky's
sytem, Theosophy.

Mass printing and affordable editions spread this material far and
wide, influencing even India.





Alice Bailey


Rudolf Steiner/Anthroposophy -- the Waldorf Schools-Biodynamics





This leveled system means a teacher necessary for one's progress. (preferably a teacher who has attained 7th or 6th level)

There is no objective way to prove or disprove the teacher's claim
to be thus realized. You are stuck taking someone's word for it.

And, as you are at an inferior level, you of course have no
right to express or feel doubt about the teacher, as you
lack the insight to critique so exalted a being.

Yet another source of worry is that the unquestionable teacher
can claim you have lost progress, or boot you from the group.





Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/16/2015 12:01AM by corboy.

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Nothing new under the sun.
Posted by: jill w ()
Date: February 16, 2015 05:57AM

It is safe to say....nothing new under the sun....however, it's more expensive.

To accept that family members paid for such nonsense makes me crazy. It's hard to come to terms with how much money went out but even more upsetting is the number it did in their heads.

Some of them only recognized the damage after they had a chance to step back.

I'm searching the internet for lawsuits.


And from what I understand, Rick Ross was sued and he stood up to the lawsuit.

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