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Re: Debunking Samael Aun Weor
Date: May 09, 2011 05:16AM

AH HA! I caught one site in the act of preying upon the gullible! It's a Rabolu-based site that says Hercolubus is coming in 2012, but check this out!

One of the contributors responded to a kid's concern about Hercolubus, who said he/she felt alienated from life (because said person has believed in 2012 since 2008). Here's how this contributor to the Hercolubus blog responded:


In fact if half mankind plus one person would do that, we will avoid the Hercolubus inbound, because that is a planet Karma due to the mankind degeneration.

So there is not a Hercolubus inbound date, it will happen sooner or later according with the whole mankind acts, that is the law.

So I advice you to continuo [sic] with your studies or your job or your obligations, but at the same time see inside you at every moment, to detect any of your inner defects, fears, vicious, mistakes, concerns, etc., and delete them as soon as you see any of them.

"So there is not a Hercolubus inbound date [...] So I advice you to continuo [sic] with your studies or your job or your obligation " That is for them to say "Do that so you won't raise suspicion about us scamming you/others to your parents." (As this person either lives with or still has contact with his/her family). This is their May 5 entry.

Wow! What a brazen attitude! I'm calling you out!

This is the link, if any of you are interested in viewing this source.


As always, I am not promoting them. By the way, this is just to show a direct link to my sources, unlike how other "gnostic movements" do, which censor outside links and never provide sources or bibliographies, etc of any kind (I am reminded of how Samael never cited sources). Others like notanantignostic in the Mark Pritchard threads do this, so I should do this, too. I still censor myself sometimes because of what gnosis sites do (as I have provided some links before). And to finally clarify things, this is the site I mentioned that keeps saying earthquakes are signs of the end times.

I will be a free man from my major work this semester within 48 hours, then I will wrap up some minor business throughout the week before I leave to be with my family this summer (where I will continue my research).

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/09/2011 05:22AM by Lone_Flame_of_Eternity.

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Re: Debunking Samael Aun Weor
Posted by: EverVigilant ()
Date: July 08, 2011 06:51PM


I'm glad you wrote this. I got into Samael after a religious experience this past December, and am still waffling back and forth on it.

At rock bottom the way I was, Revolutionary Psychology made perfect sense. To a neurotic like me, it's pretty easy to recognize that there are a bunch of often contradictory emotional forces operating within you.

Much of the cosmology also really appealed to me. Samael's quote "Wherever we direct our attention, we expend creative energy" appealed to me because it solved a philosophical problem that had been in the back of my mind for ages. Even in my materialist atheist days I never could find a clean way to work subjective experience into my "giant 3-D billiards table" conception of the universe. The fact that we can discuss subjective experience through a physical medium implies that subjective experience itself actually has a physical effect in the universe, which to me seems that through our attention and focus we are in fact "creating" something, even if this "creation" just amounts to directing the construction of new neural systems in our brains (as when learning a new skill). This creative principle, rooted in subjectivity, could also provide the "tendency to organization" we see in the evolution of the universe and life.

Then there's stuff like astral projection. While I've never been able to do it myself, I have read enough accounts of it to be convinced that at the very least the term refers to a real thing that people can learn to do. What it actually means, then, must of course must fall somewhere between constructing an elaborate self-delusion (doubtful because of the "exploratory" nature of the accounts) to going to another plane of existence where absolute truth is revealed to those who find their way there (also doubtful because of the conflicting nature of the accounts). So I don't really know where I stand on the subject of astral projection. Samael or no Samael, I want to learn to do it, so that I can form my own independent opinion on it.

I've also had some positive experiences with meditation, self-analysis, and pranayama, but then on the other hand we didn't need Samael to tell us about this stuff.

As you can probably see by now, I'm no dummy and yet I bought into this stuff hook, line and sinker. My first suspicion that "cultish" emotions were affecting me was the fact that, after a Gnostic retreat got me really gung-ho on it all, I read some stuff online that was critical of Samael, and experienced a flare-up of the usual ugly emotions a human feels when a deeply-held idea of his is challenged.

At this point it occurred to me to what extent I was not, as I had fancied myself, an intrepid explorer of the unknown, bold seeker of the truth no matter if it hurts, but just another scared human being clinging to a belief system that for a time gave me a sense of wholeness.

It then occurred to me to what extent this stuff has actually hindered my growth toward learning to love my fellow human beings. I'll relate one example to this effect. One very positive thing I can say I got out of this experience is it utterly annihilated my addiction to pornography and masturbation. I stopped doing it (with the help of some bad dreams when I would start going back that way), and after seeing the benefits this brought me, it's not too hard now to fight the desire to go back. But I did "fall" every now and then, and on those occasions my inner mental sequence went something like this: horrifying shame at myself and begging for mercy, to a feeling of hopelessness and despair, to a vague acceptance of my hellbound fate, to solidarity with the people around me because we're all going to the same place! At this point, looking at the faces of others brought so much more of a feeling of love and compassion than I ever had while practicing properly. But isn't "falling" supposed to eliminate all the energy that makes you capable of such tender feelings?

When I realized that Samael himself said "do not follow me; I am only a signpost", I started listening to what the "ego" that was critical of the system had to say. This was very productive; I discovered many of the failed predictions you mention as well as the dogmatic and fearful attitudes and behaviors of the followers. I discovered that Samael does seem to have basically thrown together a salad composed of ideas from older occult writers. It's almost as if he took any idea that he was intuitively attracted to, mistook that intuitive attraction for clairvoyance, completely skipped the use of reason, and made it a dogma. I wonder if this is how mystical megalomania works in general. I find it interesting how often he would use words like "obviously" before asserting something that was definitely not obvious. I guess if you're clairvoyant it becomes obvious.

It's hard, though. I have another retreat scheduled, and it's too late for a refund. And there's that truth-seeking part of me that wants to give it "one more chance". But then there's an apprehensive part of me that does not want to get "suckered in" again. But I'm really not so worried about that anymore, because I've learned to recognize the warning signs of having swallowed cultish dogma (the anxiety that comes from having it challenged, and the related desire to alienate myself from most of civilization, is the big one). And part of me is wondering if maybe I will have my questions answered and discover the truth there. I'd love to sort of privately "interview" people there about their astral projection experiences. To be perfectly honest, I think a lot of whether I'm going actually hinges on how a date with a woman I'm quite interested in goes this weekend. If I start to build a genuine human connection for pretty much the first time in my life, I'll probably want no part in possibly mucking it up. If it doesn't work out, then this lost soul might continue taking such risks.

All in all there is just too much fishy about these teachings to recommend them. I have trouble accepting the fact that the universe is designed in such a way that a massive number of beings are created to suffer in life and then suffer ever more greatly in hell. Not that I'm unwilling to accept the truth; if this is the truth then so be it. I have trouble accepting it because it just strikes me as outlandish. The evolution and devolution mechanism actually sort of makes sense to me, but then the part about being "submerged in the mineral worlds" to consciously experience hell for millions of years just seems completely unrelated and shoehorned-in. The only way I might explain it is on the subjective level: as the being is devolving it's building up more and more egos, and egos can only be eliminated consciously, so the egos must be consciously experienced and eliminated in hell for the being to be free. I have to admit, there's a certain logic to it, especially if we reincarnate and constantly accrue bad baggage from life to life. But then again, how painful can it be, if our personalities, which die with our bodies, are not there to remember our misfortune? Hell, then, is just sort of depersonalized subjective pain? Was this answered in Hell, the Devil, and Karma? I never read that one all the way through.

Further, there is the fact that people exist and have existed who are productive, quite clearly capable of loving and caring about people other than themselves, and have a minimum of neurotic issues, and yet see no sense in these teachings. There are people like Carl Jung, for instance, who underwent a massive spiritual transformation without even once mentioning sexual alchemy. Heck, Jung was even interested in alchemy; he read a bunch of ancient alchemy texts, and his interpretation was that they were about the "individuation" process (a Jungian buzzword). So two different people, with two different worldviews, each reading some highly metaphorical texts, and coming out with two different interpretations? I can think of reasons this might happen. I suppose "Samael had access to the truth while Jung was a deluded fornicating Black magician" is one possibility.

But yeah, apparently everybody who's not a Gnostic is unhappy and miserable. I can easily believe this because I was not a Gnostic and was/am unhappy and miserable while giving a happy face to the world, and it's easy to believe that all so-called happy people are doing the same thing. But is it possible this is a projection? We tend to assume everybody is like ourselves. Are there really zero people who lead a fulfilling, spiritually satisfying existence and yet are not practicing "alchemy"?

I don't know. It's just a lot to take in. Ultimately, though, my whole reason for being interested in it is selfish. I don't want to be left out of the Masters' Club, and I don't want to take a dip in the lava bath. That fact in itself should be enough to give me pause.

I'm so glad I've been able to get this stuff out. Thanks for making this thread. Keeping all this stuff inside my own head was driving me insane.

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Re: Debunking Samael Aun Weor
Posted by: Stoic ()
Date: July 09, 2011 01:23AM

You might enjoy this, Evervigilant, if you are worried about missing out on the Masters Club.


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Re: Debunking Samael Aun Weor
Posted by: EverVigilant ()
Date: July 09, 2011 08:06AM

Thank you for that, Stoic. Much to ponder.

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Re: Debunking Samael Aun Weor
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: July 09, 2011 10:05PM

Evervigilent wrote


the anxiety that comes from having it challenged, and the related desire to alienate myself from most of civilization, is the big one

Here is where you have to watch out. You are fortunate that you understand yourself so well.

If you get exposed to this material for too long, it will actually inflame the desire you say you already have to 'alienate myself from most of civilization'.

What these gnostic belief systems may do in some cases, is give a framework that validates social anxiety and surrounds you with persons who no longer question their own desires to 'alienate themselves from most of civilization.'

You're still able to question this pattern.

If you get involved with this group you may lose your grip on Ariadne's thread and be unable to find your way out of the labryinth.

It may be that Samuel had his own share of human anxiety and rather than face this, he created a whole world view and then invited others into it to keep him company and look up to him as a master.

And after he's dead, the whole thing is still going, sucking up human energy and money as an egregore, hungry for more energy.

There's some gnostic group that goes posting expensive and well designed posters all over town.

And many emphasize astral projection. It appears to be a topic that 'hooks' many people.

Beware. It takes lots of money to print and distribute these kinds of posters.

That money has to come from someone. And..eventually it comes from those who start out taking the advertised 'free' classes.

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Re: Debunking Samael Aun Weor
Posted by: EverVigilant ()
Date: July 10, 2011 04:09AM

Thanks corboy.

The date went wonderfully :-). I bared my soul to her, discussing all the neurotic social anxiety coming up in our conversation, and how certain things she mentioned about her life and her past made me feel, and it often wasn't good (actually much of this was prior to meeting in person). I even mentioned Samael. I figured I'd rather scare a girl away then start yet another relationship on a dishonest footing, doomed to failure. And I thanked her for baring her soul to me.

Turns out we have insane amounts in common. I have another date. :-)

Methinks it's time to cancel a flight.

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Re: Debunking Samael Aun Weor
Date: July 11, 2011 12:30AM

Hello EverVigilant,

I'm glad that you found some answers in my investigations. There is life after Samael Aun Weor and that's the beautiful thing about it! It takes a lot of strength to live that new lease on life, but however you live your life after that will help you live to the fullest.

Everyone gets down at some point in their lives. I was in my teen years when I found these teachings and to put things where I won't reveal too much about myself, I was so deep in my depression (which was fueled even more later on by SAW's doctrine) that I alienated myself from a lot of good friends, partially from my family and from society. I spent nearly a decade grappling with doubt under these teachings and watched countless others reluctantly give up and resign themselves to a cult mindset under a few Samael groups (which I shall not name to protect myself).

It has been hard getting out of the doctrine, but it was worth it to take that first step and investigate things for myself outside of the "group." I remember a huge feeling of relief after finding some concrete, logical information backed up by multiple scientific sources (quite a bit is the the research I have already posted).

About that beautiful life after Samael Aun Weor's doctrine: every day of either sweet bliss from the freedom of dogma or occasional days of bitterness or sadness that I feel are my own and that's perfectly normal (even beautiful), because I wouldn't be truly human if I didn't feel them. I'm also resuming my career path and have been accepted into a master's degree program after I graduate with my bachelor's degree in December at the very same university I left years ago. I have spent the majority of this summer so far:

A: Re-bonding with my family after years of "gnostic" influence. They were overjoyed to find out that I had broken away last year, but I have been too busy catching up on my studies to really re-bond with them after years of navigating the slippery slopes I had to tread around them. It was also a big hectic rush to get re-admitted to the university in time for the new semester last year after telling them late last summer that I had abandoned the gnostic doctrine. I'm so glad that I got their immediate full support last summer and that I am on a real even ground with them again. Family dinners during my "gnostic" years were "interesting" to say the least. Fortunately, my relationship with my family was never fully broken, but it got heavily strained. Unfortunately, I burned a few bridges with some of my old friends.

B: (Twice this summer) Driving back and forth for hours on end (since I can't afford plane tickets) to my university city to find a better apartment. Fortunately my car gets excellent gas mileage. :) I will have a better roof over my head this fall semester, so I don't have to do that again.


C: Enjoying hobbies and TV shows/movies, music, video games, and other stuff that I had abandoned/thrown away under the influence of SAW's "gnosis." Man, getting back into stuff I really enjoyed after all these years is refreshing (but somewhat counterproductive to the debunking I've been wanting to do here, LOL). Well, that's wearing off, so it'll be time to get cracking on debunking again real soon before I have to move everything to my new apartment. It has been nice to fully resume my old self for a while and step away from the poison of SAW, forgetting it fully for at least a while. But I feel like I have to help others like EverVigilant, and his story has encouraged me to go back to doing this even sooner.

To anyone else struggling to leave these teachings:

[Begin message]

You're not alone! There's nothing wrong with using the intellect or feeling emotions! You have the wonderful opportunity of this life to live beautifully, with all the ranges of human emotions, the human condition - and most importantly - LOVE. SAW's groups claim that the rest of humanity is corrupt and unworthy, claiming love can only come with the elimination of the "egos." This is not true, as the "egos" don't exist and the cycle of trying to eliminate your normal human emotions and beat yourself up about not succeeding only to try again and again is a fool's errand. True love for others is very real, and it doesn't require some kind of spiritual commitment to find it.

I was burned by many people from my childhood to my teen years, which caused me to turn to these "gnostic teachings." I was very cynical and distrusting of others, and the "gnostic" groups I was in told me what I wanted to hear; they told me what I felt was the truth. Unfortunately, this opened me up to be too trusting of total strangers who will use any information they gather about you against you. I had this happen to me several times without me even knowing it, and now I can see it since hindsight is 20/20. That link to that Mind Control Cult video that Stoic posted is so accurate; they can and will use any information they have on you against you! Not only that, you might have been so out of it in the beginning that it even looks like they have some special psychic insight on your nature, creating an illusion that "gnosis" is real. But that little self-introduction in a "gnostic" group can go a long way for them to start worming their way into your head and really finding your weaknesses, using them to blackmail you into submission: it's scary how they can do that. I know, because they did it to me.

But now, I am free. So many good things have been happening. I no longer believe that the world is 100% corrupt, I no longer hate or pity non-"gnostic" people, and most importantly, I have come to understand that the world isn't as bad as I thought it was. Sure, there are evil people out there, but I no longer think non-"gnostic" people are more or less fully evil, because I am one of them again.

There is life after Samael Aun Weor!

[End message]

Take care, everyone!

Lone Flame

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/11/2011 12:34AM by Lone_Flame_of_Eternity.

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Re: Debunking Samael Aun Weor
Posted by: Stoic ()
Date: July 11, 2011 12:45AM

That's a great message, Lone Flame.

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Re: Debunking Samael Aun Weor
Posted by: EverVigilant ()
Date: July 11, 2011 02:09AM

Agreed, Stoic. Thanks again Lone Flame.

I'll be honest, I am slightly uneasy because I think there are people who could figure out my identity from what I have said in this forum. But I wasn't in very long, and only met these people once, and they're all about 1000 miles away, so I suspect I'll be left alone. I'd be happy to be merely pitied; I hope that's their attitude toward me and that's as far as it goes. I do not want to be feared, because that's where the fun starts.

I have to say I'm very fortunate for a number of reasons. For one, I had been dealing with neurotic issues for years, as I had become familiar with the damage they do to both myself and others, so I had studied a lot of psychology, even as I was still in a drinking spiral leading to rock bottom. From rock bottom, just after a terrifying dream basically confirmed for me that there's more to life than meets the eye, Samael's stuff like Revolutionary Psychology just felt like an extension of my psychological self-education, except "more accurate" because of course he was super spiritual and stuff.

But I always remained thankful for the psychology writers I had read, because I felt they had "brought me to Gnosis". And now I'm thankful for having been so thankful, because it was when I decided to pick up an old favorite, Karen Horney's "Our Inner Conflicts", that I realized that there were immense differences between the psychology I had originally studied and Samael's stuff, and not only that, but the original psychology was much more applicable to my own situation (and even explained my attraction to the cult). Hence, more fuel for doubt.

I am glad there is life after Samael for you. I think there will be for me, too. I canceled my retreat booking and canceled the plane flight. So needless to say there are certain people who, if they read this, would know who I am. But I have a feeling I won't get harrassed, though it's always good to be ready.

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Re: Debunking Samael Aun Weor
Date: July 15, 2011 06:28AM

Hi everyone,

Here's a much higher quality version of the Mind Control Cults video with a much better picture.



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