Re: Debunking Samael Aun Weor
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: February 04, 2012 08:07AM
Here's a finding on the alleged "Five Tibetan Rites"
Five Tibetan Rites
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
[www.search.com]
The Eye of Revelation by Peter KelderThe Five Tibetan Rites is a system of exercises first publicized by Peter Kelder, an orphan from the Midwestern United States[1]. In his booklet "The Eye of Revelation", published 1939, Kelder claims to relay the travel stories of a retired British army colonel he met in southern California[2].
Although the rites are unsupported by Tibetan scholars and religious leaders, some westerners believe it to be a form of yoga similar to the more well-known forms of yoga that originated in India, even though Tibet already has its own traditional yoga with well-known teachers.
Traditional Tibetan yoga emphasizes "a continuous sequence of movement" whereas Indian forms focus on "static positions".
Although the Five Rites are practiced and promoted extensively in Western countries, Tibetan Buddhist and Bon practitioners in Tibet and India opt to engage in the already well-established traditional forms of Tibetan yoga.
The Five Tibetan Rites are also referred to as The Five Rites, The Five Tibetans and The Five Rites of Rejuvenation.
Contents
1 The booklet
2 Questionable origins
3 Performing the exercises
3.1 Claimed benefits of performing the rites
4 References
5 References supporting the Five Rites
6 References contradicting or unsupportive of the Five Rites
7 External links to The Five Rites
Kelder's booklet states, while stationed in India, British army officer Colonel Bradford (a pseudonym) heard a story about a group of Lamas who had apparently discovered a "Fountain of Youth". The "wandering natives", as he called them, told him of old men who inexplicably became healthy, strong and full of "vigor and virility" after entering a particular lamasery. After retiring, Kelder's Colonel Bradford went on to discover the lamasery and lived with the monks where they taught him five exercises, which they called "Rites". According to the booklet, the Lamas describe 7 spinning vortices (chakras) within the body. As we grow older, the spin rate of the chakras diminish resulting in "ill-health". The spin rate of these vortices can be restored resulting in improved health by performing the Five Rites on a daily basis. Bradford was also instructed in how to perform a Sixth Rite (an abdominal breathing exercise), which the Lamas only recommended for those willing to choose a lifestyle of celibacy. Additionally, Bradford reveals information on the importance of what foods one should eat, proper food combinations and the correct method of eating.
There is little historical or cultural evidence to support Kelder's booklet. Most scholars of Tibet and authentic lineage holders state his publications are works of fiction (in the same vein as Lobsang Rampa). Kelder's writing is notably discordant with the five traditional Lamaits schools in many ways, and indeed there is no lineage holder, of either high or lower stature, from any tradition in Tibet, that acknowledges anything to do with The Five Rites.
There are five chakras in Tibetan medicine, not seven chakras.
Tibetan medicine considers health to be a balance of five elements, not the speeding up of seven vortices.
Yoga in Tibet never included whirling.
Buddhist Lamas teach to transcend attachment to the body, including ideas of being young, thin or beautiful. Tibetan master Milarepa taught that illness and signs of aging were a wonderful blessing for cutting though our ego and attachment.Authentic Tibetan yoga includes over a 100 movements and involves a variety of exercises.Tibetan yoga also includes several breathing practices, hundreds of complex visualisations and many meditation practices that a practitioner will take years to perfect under strict guidance from their personal Lama.An authentic Tibetan practitioner will always reveal the name and lineage of their teacher, usually accompanied by long dedicational verses. Similarly, authentic practitioners of any Tibetan system will make frequent citation and indeed veneration of any practice from an authentic ancient text. Generally said, any authentic Tibetan practice will have numerous references to lineage and provenance, and will contain countless safeguards against invasive foreign interpolations.Tibetan monks did not teach secret yoga practices or share anything but minor spiritual practices with Westerners or laypersons generally in 1939.Chris Kilham, whose 1994 book 'The Five Tibetans' resparked the 'The Five Rites' current popularity says, "Perhaps they come from Nepal or northern India...As the story has it, they were shared by Tibetan lamas; beyond that I know nothing of their history. Personally, I think these exercises are most likely Tibetan in origin." [3]
First Rite (Clockwise Whirling)Second Rite (Head and Leg Raises)Third Rite (Camel)Fourth Rite (Tabletop)Fifth Rite (Up and Down Dog)Sixth Rite (Uddyana Bandha Abdominal Breathing Exercise)Variations in performing the rites exist between schools, with many adding their own variations. For additional details, instructions, information and photographic representations, see #External links to The Five Rites below.
Schools that teach the rites often claim they yield positive medical effects, which range from improved eyesight, memory, potency, hair growth, restoring full color to completely grey hair, and anti-aging. While the five-rites may improve health because of the increased stimulation to the body, there is currently no sound scientific evidence to support the more controversial 'miracles'.
^ Brief biography of Kelder as an orphan^ Kelder claimed to have met a yogi colonel in southern California^ Yoga Journal:The Tang of Tibet
¡Kelder, Peter: The Eye of Revelation. Peter Kelder; (1939), Borderland Sciences Research Foundation; (1975).¡Kelder, Peter: Ancient Secret of the Fountain of Youth. Harbor Press; (1985,1989) Revised, modernized and expanded edition of The Eye of Revelation, copyright 1939 by Peter Kelder.¡Kelder, Peter: Ancient Secret of the Fountain of Youth: Book 1. Doubleday; (January 20, 1998) Further revised, modernized and expanded edition of The Eye of Revelation, copyright 1939 by Peter Kelder.¡Kelder, Peter & Bernie S. Siegel, M.D.: Ancient Secret of the Fountain of Youth: Book 2. DoubleDay; (January 19, 1999)¡Kilham, Christopher S.: The Five Tibetans: Five Dynamic Exercises for Health, Energy and Personal Power. Healing Arts Press; (April 1, 1994)¡Witt, Carolinda: T5T: The Five Tibetan Exercise Rites. Penguin Books (Sept 2005).¡Co, Stephen & Eric B. Robins, M.D.: Your Hands Can Heal You: Pranic Healing Energy Remedies to Boost Vitality and Speed Recovery from Common Health Problems. Free Press; Reprint edition (January 5, 2004).
¡Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche, 2003. Yantra Yoga: The Tibetan Yoga of Movement. ISBN 1-55939-192-8.¡Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche, 1988. Yantra Yoga: The Yoga of Movement. ISBN 3-900890-01-3.¡Padampa Sangye, 11th Century. The Hundred Verses of Advice. Traditional text. Modern translation with foreword by Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.¡Patrul Rinpoche, 1860. The Words of my Perfect Teacher. Traditional text. Modern translation with foreword by the Dalai Lama and Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche. ISBN 1-57062-412-7.¡Sogyal Rinpoche, 1992. The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying. ISBN 0-7126-7139-0. On how to prepare spiritually for aging, illness, and death.¡Dalai Lama, 2001. How to Practice : The Way to a Meaningful Life. ISBN 0-7434-2708-4.¡Jamyang Khyentse Wangpo, 1855, The Excellent Path to Enlightenment Ngondro. Traditional text. Many modern translations.¡Stephan Beyer, 1978. The Cult of Tara: Magic and ritual in Tibet. ISBN 0-520-03635-2.¡Ian Baker, 2000. The Dalai Lama's Secret Temple. ISBN 0-500-51003-2. Paintings made in 1670 in the Dalai Lama's traditional temple, depicting a different form of yoga to the five rites.¡Garma C.C. Chang, 1999. The Hundred Thousand Songs of Milarepa. ISBN 1-57062-476-3. Traditional songs urging beings to give up clinging to the body and youth.¡Nyingma Institute, 2002. How to Follow a Spiritual Master. Traditional texts compilation on history and lineages of Tibetan practices.¡Milarepa, on aging and sickness¡Namkhai Norbu's course in traditional Tibetan Yoga¡Lama lobsang traditional Tibetan yoga¡Lama Surya Das traditional Tibetan retreat and lineage practices¡Snowlion publishing article on Tibetan Yoga¡Ligmincha institute Trul khor training¡Tapeworm studio, 2003. Yogis of Tibet. ASIN B00064MWJW. Documentary film on traditional Tibetan yoga practices.
¡Tibetan Yoga and Meditation¡The Five Tibetan Rites: Exercises for Healing, Rejuvenation, and Longevity¡Five Secret Tibetan Rejuvenation Rites Programme¡The Five Tibetan Rites¡Five Tibetan Rejuvenation Energy Rites¡Tibetan Rites
Five Tibetan Rites
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
[www.search.com]
The Eye of Revelation by Peter KelderThe Five Tibetan Rites is a system of exercises first publicized by Peter Kelder, an orphan from the Midwestern United States[1]. In his booklet "The Eye of Revelation", published 1939, Kelder claims to relay the travel stories of a retired British army colonel he met in southern California[2].
Although the rites are unsupported by Tibetan scholars and religious leaders, some westerners believe it to be a form of yoga similar to the more well-known forms of yoga that originated in India, even though Tibet already has its own traditional yoga with well-known teachers.
Traditional Tibetan yoga emphasizes "a continuous sequence of movement" whereas Indian forms focus on "static positions".
Although the Five Rites are practiced and promoted extensively in Western countries, Tibetan Buddhist and Bon practitioners in Tibet and India opt to engage in the already well-established traditional forms of Tibetan yoga.
The Five Tibetan Rites are also referred to as The Five Rites, The Five Tibetans and The Five Rites of Rejuvenation.
Contents
1 The booklet
2 Questionable origins
3 Performing the exercises
3.1 Claimed benefits of performing the rites
4 References
5 References supporting the Five Rites
6 References contradicting or unsupportive of the Five Rites
7 External links to The Five Rites
Kelder's booklet states, while stationed in India, British army officer Colonel Bradford (a pseudonym) heard a story about a group of Lamas who had apparently discovered a "Fountain of Youth". The "wandering natives", as he called them, told him of old men who inexplicably became healthy, strong and full of "vigor and virility" after entering a particular lamasery. After retiring, Kelder's Colonel Bradford went on to discover the lamasery and lived with the monks where they taught him five exercises, which they called "Rites". According to the booklet, the Lamas describe 7 spinning vortices (chakras) within the body. As we grow older, the spin rate of the chakras diminish resulting in "ill-health". The spin rate of these vortices can be restored resulting in improved health by performing the Five Rites on a daily basis. Bradford was also instructed in how to perform a Sixth Rite (an abdominal breathing exercise), which the Lamas only recommended for those willing to choose a lifestyle of celibacy. Additionally, Bradford reveals information on the importance of what foods one should eat, proper food combinations and the correct method of eating.
There is little historical or cultural evidence to support Kelder's booklet. Most scholars of Tibet and authentic lineage holders state his publications are works of fiction (in the same vein as Lobsang Rampa). Kelder's writing is notably discordant with the five traditional Lamaits schools in many ways, and indeed there is no lineage holder, of either high or lower stature, from any tradition in Tibet, that acknowledges anything to do with The Five Rites.
There are five chakras in Tibetan medicine, not seven chakras.
Tibetan medicine considers health to be a balance of five elements, not the speeding up of seven vortices.
Yoga in Tibet never included whirling.
Buddhist Lamas teach to transcend attachment to the body, including ideas of being young, thin or beautiful. Tibetan master Milarepa taught that illness and signs of aging were a wonderful blessing for cutting though our ego and attachment.Authentic Tibetan yoga includes over a 100 movements and involves a variety of exercises.Tibetan yoga also includes several breathing practices, hundreds of complex visualisations and many meditation practices that a practitioner will take years to perfect under strict guidance from their personal Lama.An authentic Tibetan practitioner will always reveal the name and lineage of their teacher, usually accompanied by long dedicational verses. Similarly, authentic practitioners of any Tibetan system will make frequent citation and indeed veneration of any practice from an authentic ancient text. Generally said, any authentic Tibetan practice will have numerous references to lineage and provenance, and will contain countless safeguards against invasive foreign interpolations.Tibetan monks did not teach secret yoga practices or share anything but minor spiritual practices with Westerners or laypersons generally in 1939.Chris Kilham, whose 1994 book 'The Five Tibetans' resparked the 'The Five Rites' current popularity says, "Perhaps they come from Nepal or northern India...As the story has it, they were shared by Tibetan lamas; beyond that I know nothing of their history. Personally, I think these exercises are most likely Tibetan in origin." [3]
First Rite (Clockwise Whirling)Second Rite (Head and Leg Raises)Third Rite (Camel)Fourth Rite (Tabletop)Fifth Rite (Up and Down Dog)Sixth Rite (Uddyana Bandha Abdominal Breathing Exercise)Variations in performing the rites exist between schools, with many adding their own variations. For additional details, instructions, information and photographic representations, see #External links to The Five Rites below.
Schools that teach the rites often claim they yield positive medical effects, which range from improved eyesight, memory, potency, hair growth, restoring full color to completely grey hair, and anti-aging. While the five-rites may improve health because of the increased stimulation to the body, there is currently no sound scientific evidence to support the more controversial 'miracles'.
^ Brief biography of Kelder as an orphan^ Kelder claimed to have met a yogi colonel in southern California^ Yoga Journal:The Tang of Tibet
¡Kelder, Peter: The Eye of Revelation. Peter Kelder; (1939), Borderland Sciences Research Foundation; (1975).¡Kelder, Peter: Ancient Secret of the Fountain of Youth. Harbor Press; (1985,1989) Revised, modernized and expanded edition of The Eye of Revelation, copyright 1939 by Peter Kelder.¡Kelder, Peter: Ancient Secret of the Fountain of Youth: Book 1. Doubleday; (January 20, 1998) Further revised, modernized and expanded edition of The Eye of Revelation, copyright 1939 by Peter Kelder.¡Kelder, Peter & Bernie S. Siegel, M.D.: Ancient Secret of the Fountain of Youth: Book 2. DoubleDay; (January 19, 1999)¡Kilham, Christopher S.: The Five Tibetans: Five Dynamic Exercises for Health, Energy and Personal Power. Healing Arts Press; (April 1, 1994)¡Witt, Carolinda: T5T: The Five Tibetan Exercise Rites. Penguin Books (Sept 2005).¡Co, Stephen & Eric B. Robins, M.D.: Your Hands Can Heal You: Pranic Healing Energy Remedies to Boost Vitality and Speed Recovery from Common Health Problems. Free Press; Reprint edition (January 5, 2004).
¡Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche, 2003. Yantra Yoga: The Tibetan Yoga of Movement. ISBN 1-55939-192-8.¡Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche, 1988. Yantra Yoga: The Yoga of Movement. ISBN 3-900890-01-3.¡Padampa Sangye, 11th Century. The Hundred Verses of Advice. Traditional text. Modern translation with foreword by Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.¡Patrul Rinpoche, 1860. The Words of my Perfect Teacher. Traditional text. Modern translation with foreword by the Dalai Lama and Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche. ISBN 1-57062-412-7.¡Sogyal Rinpoche, 1992. The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying. ISBN 0-7126-7139-0. On how to prepare spiritually for aging, illness, and death.¡Dalai Lama, 2001. How to Practice : The Way to a Meaningful Life. ISBN 0-7434-2708-4.¡Jamyang Khyentse Wangpo, 1855, The Excellent Path to Enlightenment Ngondro. Traditional text. Many modern translations.¡Stephan Beyer, 1978. The Cult of Tara: Magic and ritual in Tibet. ISBN 0-520-03635-2.¡Ian Baker, 2000. The Dalai Lama's Secret Temple. ISBN 0-500-51003-2. Paintings made in 1670 in the Dalai Lama's traditional temple, depicting a different form of yoga to the five rites.¡Garma C.C. Chang, 1999. The Hundred Thousand Songs of Milarepa. ISBN 1-57062-476-3. Traditional songs urging beings to give up clinging to the body and youth.¡Nyingma Institute, 2002. How to Follow a Spiritual Master. Traditional texts compilation on history and lineages of Tibetan practices.¡Milarepa, on aging and sickness¡Namkhai Norbu's course in traditional Tibetan Yoga¡Lama lobsang traditional Tibetan yoga¡Lama Surya Das traditional Tibetan retreat and lineage practices¡Snowlion publishing article on Tibetan Yoga¡Ligmincha institute Trul khor training¡Tapeworm studio, 2003. Yogis of Tibet. ASIN B00064MWJW. Documentary film on traditional Tibetan yoga practices.
¡Tibetan Yoga and Meditation¡The Five Tibetan Rites: Exercises for Healing, Rejuvenation, and Longevity¡Five Secret Tibetan Rejuvenation Rites Programme¡The Five Tibetan Rites¡Five Tibetan Rejuvenation Energy Rites¡Tibetan Rites
Re: Debunking Samael Aun Weor
Posted by:
Lone_Flame_of_Eternity
()
Date: February 24, 2012 08:59AM
Hi everyone,
I found another 2012 doomsday "gnostic" site. It's in Spanish, but it basically says that the rings of Alcyone are going to strike the Earth this December.
[loincreibleeslaverdad.blogspot.com]
But one big twist, according to the writers of the site, is that we'll all suffer 21 years until Hercolobus wipes us out in 2043.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/24/2012 09:02AM by Lone_Flame_of_Eternity.
I found another 2012 doomsday "gnostic" site. It's in Spanish, but it basically says that the rings of Alcyone are going to strike the Earth this December.
[loincreibleeslaverdad.blogspot.com]
But one big twist, according to the writers of the site, is that we'll all suffer 21 years until Hercolobus wipes us out in 2043.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/24/2012 09:02AM by Lone_Flame_of_Eternity.
Re: Debunking Samael Aun Weor
Posted by:
EverVigilant
()
Date: May 01, 2012 03:52AM
It's been almost a year, and I thought I'd check back in here.
Life's been a wild ride, some ups and some downs, but I barely ever think about SAW anymore. My prayers are focused on learning the art of love, an ability that has been missing my whole life. And they are being answered slowly, in bits and pieces. Typically the lessons have involved enduring a humiliating experience. Which has led me to this insight:
I had used the movement as an excuse for my own social ineptitude. True courage, the real terrifying initiation, was for me something as simple as telling a girl how I feel about her, that I think she's pretty but her life story terrifies me and and makes me feel unworthy. Or telling my ideologically firey father about my disagreements with some of his basic values. Or asking my boss for a raise.
From these simple actions I fled, fled into the heavens and hells of Gnosis. A philosophy that gives me an almost guaranteed chance of going to hell was less terrifying than the prospect of sharing my true feelings about a woman to her.
In short, I had used the movement as a last-ditch effort to reinflate my broken pride and thus maintain my distance from the rest of humanity.
Here were the secrets of the universe, revealed! And I, who had always felt himself an outcast in life, and yet had always been intelligent, naturally had transformed this combination into a lonely contempt. Pride was always my great vice, and pride makes joy impossible, substituting it with the feeling of self-satisfaction, that pleasure which swells up in the chest area and devilishly shuts out all emotional connection with the other humans.
One has not lived until one has loved, and setting oneself on a mountaintop precludes love. Somehow even my pride knew this, and set about finding this elusive love, the one thing that would make my pride complete, the one thing that would make me perfect. But it did not find out until it was too late that pride and love are not buddies, and this education naturally meant humiliation. I had to learn the hard way just how far behind I was, and still am, in the things that actually matter in life.
Gnosis was an attempt on the part of my pride to have its cake an eat it too. The Gnostic movement consisted in practices that were designed to yield abstract insights into the nature of things, thus reinforcing my belief that I was uniquely special for having discovered the way. But more importantly, it also consisted in a philosophy that contained the belief that all supposed love in this world was fake! So I wasn't defective after all! It isn't just me; nobody knows how to love! And I'm going to get there first, and then I'll "love" (read: contemptuously pity) all the poor brutes who haven't found it by teaching them my secrets! And I could wow some people with enough insights that they did look up to me.
It makes me laugh inside when I think about how in the one retreat I went on with them, they ended a meditation section by having us meditate on compassion for all the suffering people in the world. I did my best to feel compassionate. But it was as a command: feel compassion! It was not the spontaneous compassion you feel when you have genuinely extraverted your attention onto another human being. The latter is something that as yet only rarely happens with me, but it has happened and so now I know it unmistakably. And that makes me realize with a divine clarity what a sham the meditative "compassion" was. It strikes me as having been a way to transform pride and contempt into something blameless.
But Paul had it right: "If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing."
I am reminded of an incident from my SAW days that I want to share. I was talking on Instant Messenger to an ex-girlfriend (a barely-practicing Jew) whom I hadn't seen in half a year, essentially trying to convert her to Gnosis. Of course I was describing to her my own experiences that led me to the philosophy, and in doing so ended up mentioning that I was afraid of going to Klipoth (SAW's hell). Then I mentioned that I was also afraid of going to the mainstream Christian hell because I had recently seen one of those fruity evangelical websites with the glowy animated flames and enough esoteric-sounding BS that it got me worried I should be a Christian. At some point, I ended up typing to her "i'm just so very lonely", and as I typed it I burst into tears and started sobbing uncontrollably.
Moral of the story? There really is a "you" or "true self" in there, who is feeling something even if you have no idea what it is feeling because you're too caught up in philosophy and pride. In my case it was a deep, morbid loneliness. And SAW could not cure this, or even answer for it. He'd probably have just called it an "ego" that I needed to do away with, or accuse me of the sin of "self-compassion". But I think even then part of me recognized that in that moment there was something pure and real and unadulterated that broke through, more real than any of the "direct experience" of "Gnosis".
For those still struggling to break free of the SAW mindset, I'd like to recommend some reading material that will force your mind to seriously question your Gnostic education. None of these writers are faultless, so take any of this with the grain of salt you should have taken SAW's books with.
Heretics, by G. K. Chesterton. This is the first book I would recommend, simply because he does such a good job exploding the myth that spiritual hubris and love are compatible. I just think it makes great antidote to the Samalean Gnostic mindset. He wrote this at the turn of the 20th century and it consists in good-natured and humorous polemics against various philosophers and artists of his day. Most of them I didn't recognize by name, but their philosophies as he describes them were quite familiar. I should mention that Chesterton was an outspoken Roman Catholic, and while he doesn't push that too hard in this book, he does point to it here and there. (But heck, I don't know where I stand religiously anymore, but I have a sneaking suspicion that before I die I may end up professing Christianity again in some form or another, and the reason for this suspicion lies almost solely in what a humiliation it would be for me. I was above all that Jesus stuff, you know? And yet all my humiliations have been my best learning experiences.)
The Little Prince, by Antoine de Saint-Exupery. A moving little novella, billed as a children's book but full of mature insight into the meaning of relationships and love.
Our Inner Conflicts, by Karen Horney. Psychology that blows SAW's out of the water.
Neurosis and Human Growth, by Karen Horney. Psychology that blows SAW's out of the water.
Life's been a wild ride, some ups and some downs, but I barely ever think about SAW anymore. My prayers are focused on learning the art of love, an ability that has been missing my whole life. And they are being answered slowly, in bits and pieces. Typically the lessons have involved enduring a humiliating experience. Which has led me to this insight:
I had used the movement as an excuse for my own social ineptitude. True courage, the real terrifying initiation, was for me something as simple as telling a girl how I feel about her, that I think she's pretty but her life story terrifies me and and makes me feel unworthy. Or telling my ideologically firey father about my disagreements with some of his basic values. Or asking my boss for a raise.
From these simple actions I fled, fled into the heavens and hells of Gnosis. A philosophy that gives me an almost guaranteed chance of going to hell was less terrifying than the prospect of sharing my true feelings about a woman to her.
In short, I had used the movement as a last-ditch effort to reinflate my broken pride and thus maintain my distance from the rest of humanity.
Here were the secrets of the universe, revealed! And I, who had always felt himself an outcast in life, and yet had always been intelligent, naturally had transformed this combination into a lonely contempt. Pride was always my great vice, and pride makes joy impossible, substituting it with the feeling of self-satisfaction, that pleasure which swells up in the chest area and devilishly shuts out all emotional connection with the other humans.
One has not lived until one has loved, and setting oneself on a mountaintop precludes love. Somehow even my pride knew this, and set about finding this elusive love, the one thing that would make my pride complete, the one thing that would make me perfect. But it did not find out until it was too late that pride and love are not buddies, and this education naturally meant humiliation. I had to learn the hard way just how far behind I was, and still am, in the things that actually matter in life.
Gnosis was an attempt on the part of my pride to have its cake an eat it too. The Gnostic movement consisted in practices that were designed to yield abstract insights into the nature of things, thus reinforcing my belief that I was uniquely special for having discovered the way. But more importantly, it also consisted in a philosophy that contained the belief that all supposed love in this world was fake! So I wasn't defective after all! It isn't just me; nobody knows how to love! And I'm going to get there first, and then I'll "love" (read: contemptuously pity) all the poor brutes who haven't found it by teaching them my secrets! And I could wow some people with enough insights that they did look up to me.
It makes me laugh inside when I think about how in the one retreat I went on with them, they ended a meditation section by having us meditate on compassion for all the suffering people in the world. I did my best to feel compassionate. But it was as a command: feel compassion! It was not the spontaneous compassion you feel when you have genuinely extraverted your attention onto another human being. The latter is something that as yet only rarely happens with me, but it has happened and so now I know it unmistakably. And that makes me realize with a divine clarity what a sham the meditative "compassion" was. It strikes me as having been a way to transform pride and contempt into something blameless.
But Paul had it right: "If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing."
I am reminded of an incident from my SAW days that I want to share. I was talking on Instant Messenger to an ex-girlfriend (a barely-practicing Jew) whom I hadn't seen in half a year, essentially trying to convert her to Gnosis. Of course I was describing to her my own experiences that led me to the philosophy, and in doing so ended up mentioning that I was afraid of going to Klipoth (SAW's hell). Then I mentioned that I was also afraid of going to the mainstream Christian hell because I had recently seen one of those fruity evangelical websites with the glowy animated flames and enough esoteric-sounding BS that it got me worried I should be a Christian. At some point, I ended up typing to her "i'm just so very lonely", and as I typed it I burst into tears and started sobbing uncontrollably.
Moral of the story? There really is a "you" or "true self" in there, who is feeling something even if you have no idea what it is feeling because you're too caught up in philosophy and pride. In my case it was a deep, morbid loneliness. And SAW could not cure this, or even answer for it. He'd probably have just called it an "ego" that I needed to do away with, or accuse me of the sin of "self-compassion". But I think even then part of me recognized that in that moment there was something pure and real and unadulterated that broke through, more real than any of the "direct experience" of "Gnosis".
For those still struggling to break free of the SAW mindset, I'd like to recommend some reading material that will force your mind to seriously question your Gnostic education. None of these writers are faultless, so take any of this with the grain of salt you should have taken SAW's books with.
Heretics, by G. K. Chesterton. This is the first book I would recommend, simply because he does such a good job exploding the myth that spiritual hubris and love are compatible. I just think it makes great antidote to the Samalean Gnostic mindset. He wrote this at the turn of the 20th century and it consists in good-natured and humorous polemics against various philosophers and artists of his day. Most of them I didn't recognize by name, but their philosophies as he describes them were quite familiar. I should mention that Chesterton was an outspoken Roman Catholic, and while he doesn't push that too hard in this book, he does point to it here and there. (But heck, I don't know where I stand religiously anymore, but I have a sneaking suspicion that before I die I may end up professing Christianity again in some form or another, and the reason for this suspicion lies almost solely in what a humiliation it would be for me. I was above all that Jesus stuff, you know? And yet all my humiliations have been my best learning experiences.)
The Little Prince, by Antoine de Saint-Exupery. A moving little novella, billed as a children's book but full of mature insight into the meaning of relationships and love.
Our Inner Conflicts, by Karen Horney. Psychology that blows SAW's out of the water.
Neurosis and Human Growth, by Karen Horney. Psychology that blows SAW's out of the water.
Re: Debunking Samael Aun Weor
Posted by:
liberated111
()
Date: July 25, 2012 05:36AM
i haven't read this thread or anything.
but let me tell you...the so-called "science" of samael aun weor almost ruined my life. i was lucky to be involved with it for only a year or so, but in that time period i became more and more isolated from my friends, family, and society at large. i spent a large part of that time living in guilt and fear due to believing these teachings.
the underlying fear present in this guys' methods is beyond description. spending most of your energy worrying about "fornicating" is perhaps the most ridiculous way anyone could go about living life. His methods are completely and totally impractical and insane...you basically have to be 100% celibate in order to "succeed" in this so-called science.
i'm not sure how i fell into this cult...looking back on it, the whole idea is so ridiculous and life-denying, it's beyond words. i just feel so sorry for anyone who's still stuck in this warped and sex-repressed belief system. i was getting to the point where these teachings were literally turning me psychotic...that's when i realized i had made a very big mistake to believe any of this stuff at all.
day by day i'm trying to recover and integrate myself back into a normal, healthy lifestyle, free of these ridiculous beliefs. i've wasted so much time...samael aun weor's "gnosticism" might be the most delusional, fear-based religion in human existence today. what was i thinking?
but let me tell you...the so-called "science" of samael aun weor almost ruined my life. i was lucky to be involved with it for only a year or so, but in that time period i became more and more isolated from my friends, family, and society at large. i spent a large part of that time living in guilt and fear due to believing these teachings.
the underlying fear present in this guys' methods is beyond description. spending most of your energy worrying about "fornicating" is perhaps the most ridiculous way anyone could go about living life. His methods are completely and totally impractical and insane...you basically have to be 100% celibate in order to "succeed" in this so-called science.
i'm not sure how i fell into this cult...looking back on it, the whole idea is so ridiculous and life-denying, it's beyond words. i just feel so sorry for anyone who's still stuck in this warped and sex-repressed belief system. i was getting to the point where these teachings were literally turning me psychotic...that's when i realized i had made a very big mistake to believe any of this stuff at all.
day by day i'm trying to recover and integrate myself back into a normal, healthy lifestyle, free of these ridiculous beliefs. i've wasted so much time...samael aun weor's "gnosticism" might be the most delusional, fear-based religion in human existence today. what was i thinking?
Re: Debunking Samael Aun Weor
Posted by:
liberated111
()
Date: July 25, 2012 06:01AM
i don't see my original post? so i'll post this again...
the gnostic "science" of samael aun weor basically ruined my life for the better part of a year. I spent most of my time in fear and guilt, endlessly worrying about "fornicating" and "falling into the abyss," basically Weor's version of hell on earth.
this belief system is highly dangerous and SEEMS appealing to people who are very lonely and seek "enlightenment" through a quick-fix solution. Weor promises liberation through his methods, but his fear-based teachings do nothing more than create and compound suffering.
I don't see how anyone who follows these beliefs can function normally in society. For the past year i was more isolated from life than i ever have been...why i believed all of this non-sense in the first place, i'm not quite sure.
i feel sorry for anyone who's still heavily involved with this stuff, it's such a shame, such a waste of life.
the gnostic "science" of samael aun weor basically ruined my life for the better part of a year. I spent most of my time in fear and guilt, endlessly worrying about "fornicating" and "falling into the abyss," basically Weor's version of hell on earth.
this belief system is highly dangerous and SEEMS appealing to people who are very lonely and seek "enlightenment" through a quick-fix solution. Weor promises liberation through his methods, but his fear-based teachings do nothing more than create and compound suffering.
I don't see how anyone who follows these beliefs can function normally in society. For the past year i was more isolated from life than i ever have been...why i believed all of this non-sense in the first place, i'm not quite sure.
i feel sorry for anyone who's still heavily involved with this stuff, it's such a shame, such a waste of life.
Re: Debunking Samael Aun Weor
Posted by:
EverVigilant
()
Date: August 01, 2012 05:35AM
Welcome back to the land of the living, liberated111 :-)
Re: Debunking Samael Aun Weor
Posted by:
Lone_Flame_of_Eternity
()
Date: August 20, 2012 02:46PM
Hi everyone,
I'm back from a very busy schedule, and I found something very interesting to comment on about VM Rabolu's book Hercolubus or Red Planet. The guy in this YouTube link briefly mentions the descriptions from VM Rabolu about life on Venus and its similarities with the Venus Project (founded in 1975).
[www.youtube.com]
I'm glad you're moving forward, EverVigilant. If there's one good thing I have ever done for the human race, it was to help you leave the poisonous SAW doctrine.
libereated111, I spent nearly a decade in the Samael gnostic movement, moving from group to group; a year is more than enough, believe you me. I got sucked in as a teenager and underwent indescribable humilitaiton for that near decade. They forced me to give up my hobbies and things I loved, sent me on fool's errands to do impossible things and made me leave my university studies in the middle of my bachelor's program. In late 2010, I finally left and I began to heal. I am still healing. One thing stands, though: Despite them ruining nearly a decade of my life, I have to move forward. I am more than making up for what they have done to me. I graduated with the bachelor's degree that I left so long ago and I'm in a master's degree program now. I am also sinking money (what little I can spare) into my old hobbies that SAW's evil doctrine forced me to abandon. I feel alive again, as I am no longer isolated from society, which you are so right about (that,and my hobbies make me so happy). SAW's doctrine isolates you from society and those who are in that system cannot really function among normal lines. It's an "Us vs. Them" mentality.
You, and others who have left the movement, must go forward and not let it hurt you anymore!
My research against SAW has crawled to a halt for now, as my university studies demand much of my time. I will continue to check in and contribute as I can, to drive back the Samael poison and keep it from destroying people's lives.
Keep on keeping on, everybody! (I know I have to. Graduate studies are not easy.)
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/20/2012 02:49PM by Lone_Flame_of_Eternity.
I'm back from a very busy schedule, and I found something very interesting to comment on about VM Rabolu's book Hercolubus or Red Planet. The guy in this YouTube link briefly mentions the descriptions from VM Rabolu about life on Venus and its similarities with the Venus Project (founded in 1975).
[www.youtube.com]
I'm glad you're moving forward, EverVigilant. If there's one good thing I have ever done for the human race, it was to help you leave the poisonous SAW doctrine.
libereated111, I spent nearly a decade in the Samael gnostic movement, moving from group to group; a year is more than enough, believe you me. I got sucked in as a teenager and underwent indescribable humilitaiton for that near decade. They forced me to give up my hobbies and things I loved, sent me on fool's errands to do impossible things and made me leave my university studies in the middle of my bachelor's program. In late 2010, I finally left and I began to heal. I am still healing. One thing stands, though: Despite them ruining nearly a decade of my life, I have to move forward. I am more than making up for what they have done to me. I graduated with the bachelor's degree that I left so long ago and I'm in a master's degree program now. I am also sinking money (what little I can spare) into my old hobbies that SAW's evil doctrine forced me to abandon. I feel alive again, as I am no longer isolated from society, which you are so right about (that,and my hobbies make me so happy). SAW's doctrine isolates you from society and those who are in that system cannot really function among normal lines. It's an "Us vs. Them" mentality.
You, and others who have left the movement, must go forward and not let it hurt you anymore!
My research against SAW has crawled to a halt for now, as my university studies demand much of my time. I will continue to check in and contribute as I can, to drive back the Samael poison and keep it from destroying people's lives.
Keep on keeping on, everybody! (I know I have to. Graduate studies are not easy.)
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/20/2012 02:49PM by Lone_Flame_of_Eternity.
Re: Debunking Samael Aun Weor
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: August 20, 2012 10:53PM
Confusion and arousal are used very early in the process of recruitment. This paper will give a lot of information on exactly how this is utilized against unsuspecting persons who are 'marks' for recruitment.
Here is a paper that you may find worth reading -- Cult Induction and Trance.
[webcache.googleusercontent.com]
and this
[forum.culteducation.com]
Maria Carlson, in her survey and history of Theosophy (an applied gnosticism from which SAW probably appropriated lots of his stuff) made an observation about its writings which, though Blavatsky and Steiner wrote over 100 years ago, have a trance like impact that many will find confusing--and mistake for power.
See if Carlson's observation applies to SAW's material.
Here is a paper that you may find worth reading -- Cult Induction and Trance.
[webcache.googleusercontent.com]
and this
[forum.culteducation.com]
Quote
Quote:
[books.google.com]
narratives provide explanations for actions that lead to their focal event, though these explanations are based partly on identification, regression, and primary process thinking, as well as logic and reality testing.
Narratives make use of devices such as analogical parallels that help us make sense of the succession of events they recount. They embody attitudes toward the characters who create or react to the events the narrative depicts.
Narratives offer an interpretation on the incidents and characters they represent or at least they guide their reader toward a specific attitude and interpretation. (Corboy emphasis. If a salesperson is doing this, his or her narrative guides you toward purchasing his or her product)
They instruct us on the attitudes we should take towards the characters, the morality of their behavior, and the explanations we are to give about why the characters behave as they do.
What is more, narratives, especially realistic narratives rely on devices, most drawn from analogical thinking that encourage their readers to respond unwittingly to these instructions.
Readers are unaware of these devices (which use analogy) for two reasons:
They engage primary process thinking, the operation of which is preconscious or unconscious
And second, the realistic effects of the the narrative conceals these devices and their mode of operation.
Analogy thinking is based on similiarities and correspondances. Its characteristic of very early childhood, trance, dream states and artistic creation.
Maria Carlson, in her survey and history of Theosophy (an applied gnosticism from which SAW probably appropriated lots of his stuff) made an observation about its writings which, though Blavatsky and Steiner wrote over 100 years ago, have a trance like impact that many will find confusing--and mistake for power.
See if Carlson's observation applies to SAW's material.
Quote
One of the major reasons that Theosophy and Anthroposophy are difficult to define and outline concisely is that both doctrines continually redefine basic concepts (such as Logos, Christ, soul, spirit, plane, and so forth) according to the immediate demands of the point under discussion.
"The understanding of the various terms also change with time, topic, exegete, and the point of the argument: Mrs Besant and Rudolf Steiner, for example, frequently (though not always), mean very different things when they use the word Logos; thier definitions are, in turn, different from either the traditional Christian or Gnostic understanding of that important term.
"At the same time, enough points of coincidence lull the reader into a false sense of identity of concepts. The result that becomes impossible to get a real grip on what should be basic building block ideas.
Furthermore, occultists tend to develop their arguments not by deduction or even induction, but by analogy. The reader, at the time of reading, momentarily senses the relationship of terms and intuitively or sympathetically perceives parallel; afterward, undnerstanding vanishes.
**(What Carlson has just described might, in some, be a light trance induced by the reading material. (Corboy))
"Finally (Carlson continues) not only do the Theosophists constantly redefine their own terms, but they "translate" the statements of non Theosophists into their own terminology, invariably muddling the translation.
"Their definitions of basic concepts are unfortunately so loose and subjective that just about any alien concept can be subsumed by them.
"Thus, for example, Anne Kamenskaia, discussing Fedor Dostoevsky (who was not much taken with oriental philosophy) blithely attributes to him the idea that mankind will achieve spiritual heights not through sorrow and suffering, but through the radiant flight of an exultant soul liberated from the chains of karma (!), although Dostoevsky would never have chosen to express himself in that way.
(Maria Carlson, No Religion Higher Than Truth: A History of the Thesophical Movement in Russia 1875-1922 Princeton University 1993, page 229, footnote to Chapter 5: Theosophical Doctrine: An Outline.
(Corboy note: I am not sure, but perhaps this alludes to the kind of dream like primary process thought one encounters in dreams or in the thought process of children too young to be capable of formal logic.
As stated above, this is richly creative for artists, but incompatible with adult logic and scientific and historical problem solving.
**This state of mind is also unable to support critical thinking needed to determine if the teacher of this doctrine is behaving in an ethical manner. This analogical state of mind is often not able to evaluate whether you yourself are benefitting, unaffected, or if you are being harmed by time spent in a gnostic school.
One has to know how to remove oneself from analogical thought and resume adult formal logic and evidence based thought in order to evaluate whether you are benefitting from the teaching and whether the teacher and senior students are using their power in a responsible and honorable manner. As noted in the article on cult induction, modern cults are distinctive because unlike older groups, they seek to prolong time spent in dissociative states of mind.
If one cannot retain logical grasp of such material, (due to shifting terminology) that means that one is always left insecure and in need of a 'Master'.
It is not ones own fault--the text has been written out in a manner that mimics adult logic but that is actually pre-logical and possibly for some readers, hypnotic. I am trying to figure this out on my own and for that reason made sure to get a photocopy of this foot note. SAWs texts perhaps have a similar effect on readers. )
Re: Debunking Samael Aun Weor
Posted by:
Lone_Flame_of_Eternity
()
Date: November 15, 2012 06:47AM
Hi everyone,
Lone Flame here in the middle of graduate school madness.
Another Hercolubus scare might be lurking as scientists have found an exoplanet around four times the size of Jupiter lurking near the Solar System.
[www.huffingtonpost.com]
Small snippet:
Read the rest at the link above.
Lone Flame here in the middle of graduate school madness.
Another Hercolubus scare might be lurking as scientists have found an exoplanet around four times the size of Jupiter lurking near the Solar System.
[www.huffingtonpost.com]
Small snippet:
Quote
Astronomers have discovered a potential "rogue" alien planet wandering alone just 100 light-years from Earth, suggesting that such starless worlds may be extremely common across the galaxy.
The free-floating object, called CFBDSIR2149, is likely a gas giant planet four to seven times more massive than Jupiter, scientists say in a new study unveiled today (Nov. 14). The planet cruises unbound through space relatively close to Earth (in astronomical terms), perhaps after being booted from its own solar system.
Read the rest at the link above.
Re: Debunking Samael Aun Weor
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: December 05, 2012 11:28PM
For people interested in this topic, there is an informative article by Brian Vickers describing the difference between language, analogy, metaphor as used by modern science, and how this developed on a different path from the way language, analogy and metaphor were used by occultists/alchemists and how these two paths of development traced from Aristotle, Plato, and via BaconGalileo, Kepler, Hobbes Boyle, and Locke.
How modern science as it developed in the 17th century began by creating new guidelines for what kind of language had to be employed, and differentiated this scientific discourse from the analogical and symbolic modes used by occultists.
This chapter is dense and difficult, and I am still on my second reading. But it will help anyone trying to make sense of the difference between the mindset of coventional society (science based) and the mindset that permeates occult/traditionalist/theosophical movements such as Samuel Aeon Weor.
Brian Vickers Occult and Scientific Mentalities in the Renaissance, Cambridge University Press, 1986
[www.scribd.com]
How modern science as it developed in the 17th century began by creating new guidelines for what kind of language had to be employed, and differentiated this scientific discourse from the analogical and symbolic modes used by occultists.
This chapter is dense and difficult, and I am still on my second reading. But it will help anyone trying to make sense of the difference between the mindset of coventional society (science based) and the mindset that permeates occult/traditionalist/theosophical movements such as Samuel Aeon Weor.
Quote
It is my contention that the occult and the experimental scientific traditions can be differentiated in several ways: in terms of goals, methods, and assumptions. I do not maintain that they were exclusive opposites or that a Renaissance scientist's allegiance can be settled on an either/or, or yes/no, basis.
Rather, in many instances, especially in the late sixteenth and seventeenth centuries, a spectrum of beliefs and attitudes can be distinguished, a continuum from, say, absolutely magical to absolutely mechanistic poles, along which thinkers place themselves at various points depending on their attitudes to certain key topics.
"One of these topics, not much discussed so far, is the relationship between language and reality.
"In the scientific tradition, I hold, a clear distinction is made between words and things and between literal and metaphorical language.
"The occult tradition does not recognize this distinction: Words are treated as if they are equivalent to things and can be substituted for them. Manipulate the one and you manipulate the other.
(Corboy note: this ties in with the Hermetic 'doctrine of correspondances' and the adage, as above, so below)
Analogies, instead of being, as they are in the scientific tradition, explanatory devices subordinate to argument and proof, or heuristic tools to make models that can be tested, corrected, and abandoned if necessary, are, instead, modes of conceiving relationships in the universe that reify, rigidify, and ultimately come to dominate thought.
One no longer uses analogies: One is used by them. They become the only way in which one can think or experience the world.
Brian Vickers Occult and Scientific Mentalities in the Renaissance, Cambridge University Press, 1986
[www.scribd.com]
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