Stever Robbins gets technical...about using Ericksonian language patterns in German, which has different grammatical structures.

___________________________________
QUOTE EXCERPT:
[www.steverrobbins.com]
"Much of early NLP was based on the work of Virginia Satir, a family therapist; Fritz Perls, founder of Gestalt therapy; Gregory Bateson, anthropologist; and Milton Erickson, hypnotist. It was Erickson's work that formed the foundation for a lot of NLP, thus the tight connection with hypnosis. Bandler and Grinder's book "Patterns of the Hypnotic Techniques of Milton H. Erickson, Volume I" is one of the best books I've ever read on how language influences mental states."
...

The "meta-model."
A set of linguistic challenges for uncovering the "deep structure" underneath someone's "surface structure" sentences. [Sorry for the transformational grammar lingo.]

...The "Milton-model."
This is a set of linguistic patterns Milton Erickson used to induce trance and other states in people. It is the inverse of the meta-model; it teaches you how to be artfully vague, which is what you use to do therapeutic hypnosis with someone.

_____________________________________
[www.steverrobbins.com]
Stever's Adventure With German
...
"Disengaging English. I used hypnotic age regression to return to a pre-linguistic state and build a separate learning state for German. Whenever I catch myself thinking in English while doing the tapes, I switch my mental voices to German, letting them fill in English words for vocabulary I don't have yet.."

August 30, 1995. This is scary. I'm only on lesson 25 and already speculating about how to do Ericksonian hypnosis in German. From an e-mail exchange with Thies Stahl:

> > Very, very much so. It's something I have practiced extensively, both in
> > the realm of Ericksonian hypnosis (scope ambiguities and punctuation
> > ambiguities allow you to do verbal swish patterns), and in the realm of
> > comedy improvisation.
>
> Thanks for this hint. I will practice it.

I've already figured out a couple of questions about German translation of
Hypnotic language patterns that only a native speaker could answer.

Keep in mind that I only know a couple of grammar constructs in
German, but it seems that you could do punctuation ambiguities when
transitioning from a helping-verb sentence ("I can drive") to a
direct command ("drive to the store"), since the infinitive and the
imperative seem to be the same for many verbs. I don't know, however,
if this mentally "flows" for a native speaker.

Depending on which constructs can and can't be merged, certain kinds of
transitions may be impossible (or possible). For example,
People can go to the STORE your problems away.
In German, if I want to keep the modal operator of possibility (mhich,
when doing trance work, is a fairly important mode to work in), this won't
work. Leaving aside the question of whether STORE is ambiguous in German
the same way as it is in English, your word order makes this example
impossible:
People can to the store TO GO

__________________________________



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/29/2009 02:10AM by The Anticult.

American Tantric Dissimulation--Hiding the Actual Source of Influence

From the RR.com message board, I would like to add a further comment to Chapter 43 on Janaki's blog--Am I Whacky?

To Janaki:

Just wait. Sooner or later the inevitable guru apologist (s) will arrive and claim that its only our own craving minds that cause all the trouble.

No, friend. The problem is not our craving minds as seekers. Its that gurus minds so crave power that the guru conceals what methods he or she is using to influence us.

That information is withheld from us.

In fact, secrecy and lying are part of some ancient Asian spiritual traditions, some of whose devotees have since become entangled with BK.

The people who put their trust in Muktananda didnt know that Werner Erhard had helped sponsor him. Nor were they told that Muks lineage claims were dubious and that (Sarah Caldwell is the source here), nor that Muk was publicly representing himself as a hatha yoga teacher, but secretly got his power from tantric practice and was following a traditional pattern of dissimulation.

No one knew this at the time. Sarah Caldwell only learned this after becoming a scholar of Sanskrist and becoming able to read Abhvinagupta and other texts in the original form and being able to research the social contexts of these practices--and the strategy used to conceal tantra behind hatha yoga, to reassure an unsuspecting public.

This is far beyond the troubles caused by a seeker's 'craving mind.' Its a tradition of Asian teacher learning to lie and continuing a pattern of lying.

(read Sarah Caldwell's The heart of the secret, a personal and scholarly encounter with tantra.)

Today in the US, it may be that the concealed secret is not Shaivite Tantrism hidden behind an outward claim to teach Hatha Yoga;

Its the claim to be teaching freedom from suffering while covertly hiding one's actual sources of influence....NLP and LGAT techniques.

Those seem to be the American Tantra.

Hinduism, as taught by many 'export gurus' who came to the West, concealed its tantric and Shivite core, to present a reassuring and respectable face to Westerners who were not equipped to know *how* to do background research..and who did not even know they needed to do any such thing.

Quote

Even if, as Meditation Revolution’s authors would have it, the Kaula Tantric substratum has been fully erased from Siddha Yoga under Gurumayi’s leadership, our knowledge of Muktananda’s (and by association, Gurumayi’s) past makes a full and open interrogation of this aspect of Siddha Yoga imperative, both for scholars and for theologians of the tradition.

'By such conscious acts of dissimulation, the heart of the secret is not revealed. The Tantric core of so many of the last century’s imported Hindu traditions has successfully been painted over with amore acceptable Shaiva or Vedantic veneer. ...
this denial fuels an unhealthy form of hypocrisy.

.... Such “Tantric dissembling” by groups such as the Ramakrishna Order and Siddha Yoga is, then, part of a hoary tradition. Abhinavagupta himself was the pivotal figure in the shift from medieval Kaula practices,openly celebrated by kings and courtesans, to a disguised, encoded,secret practice hidden within an outer, more socially acceptable form.(

Sarah Caldwell 'The Heart of the Secret: A Personal and Scholarly Approach to Shakta Tantrism in Siddha Yoga'

[74.125.47.132]

Sarah Caldwell notes that many former Muktananda devotees went on to become scholars of Sanskrit and of Hinduism. What she says is interesting, given the tangle of secrecy we have observed in BK-land--as if a re-enactment dynamic is playing out.

Quote

The seeds Baba (Muktananda) planted have not withered away, however. Today,nearly twenty years after his death, a number of talented scholars have emerged into the field of Hindu studies who are former devotees ofSwami Muktananda, initiates into Siddha Yoga. Feeling the need to protect their identities, these scholars have not revealed their initiatory pasts, but are nonetheless fueled by the extraordinary power of theirexperiences of Baba’s Siddha Yoga.55Many are only now beginningto piece together the complexities of their own feelings about thecontroversies that still swirl around Baba’s name. A whole new gen-eration of brilliant scholars, including the editors and authors o fMeditation Revolution, have come lately to Siddha Yoga, as devotees ofthe charismatic Gurumayi. Their history is only what she has told them,what remains in the pillaged archives, what can be read and known afterall dissenting voices have been purged. This is a disturbing history, anda false one.

After Muktananda died, in 1982, his niece Gurumayi executed a coup and took control of SYDA yoga, and it is her ashram that is un-named but described in the current and popular book, "Eat Pray and Love'

A different take on Gurumayi is available via a memoir by Marta Szabo, entitled The Guru Looked Good.

This is more, much more than a problem of a bunch of seekers and their 'craving minds.'

Its about gurus craving power and with-holding information from seekers, who unlike the guru, are sincere and unlike the guru, tried to the best of their ability to bare their souls, while the guru was pretending to be a Hatha yogi while secretly using tantra and in the case of Muktananda, reportedly using methods learned from his American buddy Werner Erhard, architect of EST.

Milton Erickson--the tantric guru whom no one claims but whose methods so many seem eager to use.

Unlike the others, Erickson accepted the accountablity of becoming an MD, taking the Hippocratic Oath and carrying a medical license.

Unlike today's LGAT leaders and gurus, this is the oath Erickson must have taken the day he graduated from medical school:

[medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com]

Quote

I swear by Apollo the physician, by Ӕsculapius, Hygeia, and Panacea, and I take to witness all the gods, and all the goddesses, to keep according to my ability and my judgment the following Oath:

To consider dear to me as my parents him who taught me this art*; to live in common with him and if necessary to share my goods with him; to look upon his children as my own brothers, to teach them this art if they so desire without fee or written promise; to impart to my sons and the sons of the master who taught me and the disciples who have enrolled themselves and have agreed to the rules of the profession, but to these alone, the precepts and the instruction.

(Note this--to acknowlege the person who taught you the healing art, and at the same time, never teach these nethods unless to those who have 'agreed to the rules of th perofession')

I will prescribe regimen for the good of my patients according to my ability and my judgment and never do harm to anyone.

'To please no one will I prescribe a deadly drug, nor give advice which may cause his death. Nor will I give a woman a pessary to procure abortion.

'But I will preserve the purity of my life and my art. I will not cut for stone, even for patients in whom the disease is manifest; I will leave this operation to be performed by practitioners (specialists in this art).

'In every house where I come I will enter only for the good of my patients, keeping myself far from all intentional ill-doing and all seduction, and especially from the pleasures of love with women or with men, be they free or slaves.

(This was radical. In the ancient world, slaves were considered non persons. To promise to abstain from sex, even with slaves in a patient's household was a remarkable commitment to boundaries.)

All that may come to my knowledge in the exercise of my profession or outside of my profession or in daily commerce with men, which ought not to be spread abroad, I will keep secret and will never reveal.

*(Again, note the promise not to teach methods to those unqualified)

If I keep this oath faithfully, may I enjoy my life and practice my art, respected by all men and in all times; but if I swerve from it or violate it, may the reverse be my lot

Corboy said:

"To Janaki:

Just wait. Sooner or later the inevitable guru apologist (s) will arrive and claim that its only our own craving minds that cause all the trouble."

I have heard worse rationalizations, this is the one Advaita 'teacher' Ramesh Balsekar used to explain his touching up (perhaps worse) of female students. The guru in the story is apparently pedophile Sai Baba.


> > > >A disciple, who had been with this guru for over
> > > > twenty years, caught him in the middle of a sex act
> > > > with young boys. He had never previously known that
> > > > his guru did this. Very shocked, he came back to
> > > > see the guru telling him that he could not tolerate
> > > > such actions, and that he was leaving the ashram
> > > > immediately. The guru's response was, "You have
> > > > created the problem. Now you have to solve it!"
> > > >
> > > > Ramesh expressed his agreement with this response
> > > > and said, "Everything is only an event ruled by
> > > > cosmic law and by divine will...It is the
> > > > programming of the body-mind mechanism... and
> > > > nothing can be done about it... the guru is not
> > > > concerned!"

As in there are only problems in the mind, if you see something not quite kosher then you need to unbind yourself of your hangups (do the work) about reality. This is fine if the guru likes to pick his nose but if he is actively ABUSING and taking advantage of people that is a different matter.

Janaki is already getting harassing messages that she should 'do the work' on whether BK owes her anything and why is she trying to make money off her. Well since BKI is actually a business and not a religious institution or charity, BK does in fact owe her a lot for opening up the european market for her.

I wonder how many people would be so willing to do therapy about their child abuse on stage and admitting to making love to animals if they didn't have an image of Katie as Mommy-God, or at least a person of impecable intergrity, leading them through it. They obviously look to her as the end product of it. I would say that image is pretty much shattered.

Quote
oncebitten
I wonder how many people would be so willing to do therapy about their child abuse on stage and admitting to making love to animals if they didn't have an image of Katie as Mommy-God, or at least a person of impecable intergrity, leading them through it. They obviously look to her as the end product of it. I would say that image is pretty much shattered.

And there are several other levels to that.
One level has been explained in the thread, and its about taking peoples Trauma and "flooding" it, which is very dangerous and damaging.

The other is that those public confessions are being RECORDED on video and audio, and BKI Inc OWNS your confession FOREVER (perpetuity), and they can SELL it. They can license it to others. They can "exploit" and do anything they want with it, you signed the contract, and you don't get a penny, and you can't do anything about it.
(see below RELEASE OF RIGHTS FOR AUDIO AND VIDEO RECORDING AND PHOTOGRAPHY)

So, 10-25 years from now, that company could be owned and run by different people, and could still be selling a video of a person making some terrible disclosure on camera. They can put it on Youtube, and you can't do anything about it. They can put in on the front-page of their website.
They can put it into a TV infomercial, or documentary, or movie.
Recordings of people reading this thread could be in that Byron Katie DVD that was talked about recently.

So it would be like taking private therapy video recordings, and then the therapist owns them, and can sell them, using your picture, voice, and everything else.
Its very similar to Scientology, who record and save all of their "auditing" they do of people, where people confess all of their sins. That can come in "handy" years later for Scientology.

Everything else aside, this reason alone is more than enough to NEVER attend this or any other LGAT seminar.

__________________________________
[forum.culteducation.com]
THE SCHOOL FOR THE WORK WITH BYRON KATIE - RELEASE OF LIABILITY

RELEASE OF RIGHTS FOR AUDIO AND VIDEO RECORDING AND PHOTOGRAPHY

I acknowledge that BKI Inc. and The School may make photographs and/or audio and video recordings of the sessions of The School in which I may participate. I hereby irrevocably consent to the reproduction of my likeness and/or voice in any such photographs and/or video recordings. I grant in perpetuity an release to BKI Inc. and Byron Katie Inc. the exclusive and royalty-free rights to record, produce, distribute, sell, license to others, and to otherwise use or exploit any of such photographs and audio or video recordings, including my likeness and voice, taken of me or in which I may be included, for all purposes, including in connection with conversations, interviews, performances, speeches, and/or presentations at The School....
_____________________________________

Quote

The Anticult: There is another Janaki blog update...where there is text where Byron Katie is endorsing Janaki.
[www.theworkingcompany.nl]

I looked up the endorsement, and found an interesting comment:

Quote

Janaki, I don’t know what you are attempting to prove by publishing this. The only thing you have proven is that she changed her mind about you. Are you enjoying yourself, or merely prolonging your own pain by telling and embellishing upon this tale again and again like the Ancient Mariner? You must know by now that revenge isn’t sweet in the long run; as the old saying goes, living well is the best revenge; I hope that you will take whatever is good from your past plus whatever you learned from this and make a wonderful new life for yourself. This soap opera is not worthy of you.

Who is the Ancient Mariner?

Who Owns Your Intellectual and Soulful Property after Youve been To an LGAT??

Quote

So it would be like taking private therapy video recordings, and then the therapist owns them, and can sell them, using your picture, voice, and everything else.
Its very similar to Scientology, who record and save all of their "auditing" they do of people, where people confess all of their sins. That can come in "handy" years later for Scientology.

Corboy note: We must make it clear that no ethical therapist would ever do this sort of thing.

In this matter and in others, therapists are regulated by law. And part of that law requires them to 1) maintain records, 2) that this record keeping must meet established legal and professional standards and 3) standards of confidentiality must be maintained. The onus of responsiblity is on the therapist as powerholder/fiduciary to preserve patient privacy, unless there are indications that the patient or others are in danger.

And, both confidentiality and security of records must be maintained. (eg a therapist has to take reasonable precautions to ensure that unauthorized persons cannot access that information.

And if material from therapy sessions is ever used for teaching purposes or quoted in a publication, your therapist must give you the choice beforhand, whether to consent or refuse.

You are given forms describing in what ways your records and recordings will be used and stored and your name and identity will be protected, precisely so that you will not be burdened by fear of public exposure.

If anyone who has done a BK School event feels concerned about having been recorded or videotaped during intimate moments, I would advise discussing this matter with an attorney.

There may be legal remedies that can be taken--at least to ensure FUTURE CUSTODY and SECURITY of those records, especially since it does not appear that Katie, her husband or her children are licensed mental health professionals.

And something like this would be a superb method of reclaiming one's power.

There are stories in old folklore of how spell binders would craft a spell by gaining posession of something owned by the target of the spell, such as getting hold of a lock of the targets hair, or article of clothing.

Well, in modern spell binding, what more potent way than to get someone to hand over their wedding ring or laptop?

Or film someone during a vulnerable moment?

It is significant that we speak of being 'captured' on film.

This is true.

A way to un-do these modern spells is to get advice from ones own lawyer. That person can then contact the organization and demand that they never use your material.

You can bet BK had an attorney giving advice on how to craft those release of liability forms.

Why shouldnt you have a lawyer?

If BK can hire a legal wizard or two, so should her former students.

(Heavy sarcasm)

Oh, I forgot.

Cockroach Lady gets to have all the power. She gets to change the rules when she feels like it.

She can phone her lawyers whenever she wants to do so, and when she calls her lawyer, its all about loooove.

A former student of BK's concenred about having been captured on video in a moment of humiliation, who were to phone a lawyer to get advice, would be acting violently, by seeking to do the very same thing BK does to protect her own interests.

Thats why so many go into the guru business.

Therapists have to abide by rules.

Gurus can do what they want.

Unlike therapy, guru-ing is legally unregulated. You can behave in a bizarre manner, throw tantrums, and get people to think you're blessing them.

So, BK people, you are in love with BK.

But after she's gone, who is gonna own the recordings of your voice, your vulnerable moments?

How do you know they're going to be responsible custodians of that information?

Do you know who these people are? Have you ever met them?

Will you ever meet them?

Who are the future custodians of these records of your inner life and vulnerable moments?

These are Five Questions for today. Ponder em.

Heh, if anyone looks ancient and old as the hills, its BK.

And when she gets old enough, she will not be able to control her business.

That means persons filmed or recorded during Work School or at Turnaround House have every right to demand information on who is gonna OWN their confidential
material after BK cannot run the show.

Unless we die younger, we are all going to get old and doddery at some point.

BK is no exception.

Old Age, Sickness and Death cannot be bribed. They cannot be distracted by charm.

No attorney can hold them at bay.

Who will own the recordings and videotapes after BK loses control?

Who owns all the recordings and videos and photos?
It says right in the contract.

"I grant in perpetuity an release to BKI Inc. and Byron Katie Inc." [forum.culteducation.com]

BKI Inc.
Byron Katie Inc.

Those both appear to be private corporations, and they can be bought and sold by anyone.
Who owns BKI Inc?
Everyone assumes its Byron Katie, but is it? Maybe there are a few partners?

But if Byron Katie retires, she/they can sell the corporation to whoever they want. They could sell it to another "coach" or another "Guru".
Or if the company went broke, it could be bought up by anyone.

And all those recordings and photo's are still owned by the same company, just controlled by different people, it could be anyone on earth who bought the company.
Its all there in black and white to anyone who signed those contracts.
They own it forever, and can sell it, and license it, and do anything with it.
People who sign that contract give them full license to do anything with it "irrevocably" in "perpetuity".
They have irrevocably given up all their "rights" in perpetuity, which means forever. As in, for the rest of your life, and even after you are dead.

Talk about REALITY.
Byron Katie Inc.
_______________________________
[forum.culteducation.com]
THE SCHOOL FOR THE WORK WITH BYRON KATIE - RELEASE OF LIABILITY

RELEASE OF RIGHTS FOR AUDIO AND VIDEO RECORDING AND PHOTOGRAPHY

I acknowledge that BKI Inc. and The School may make photographs and/or audio and video recordings of the sessions of The School in which I may participate. I hereby irrevocably consent to the reproduction of my likeness and/or voice in any such photographs and/or video recordings. I grant in perpetuity an release to BKI Inc. and Byron Katie Inc. the exclusive and royalty-free rights to record, produce, distribute, sell, license to others, and to otherwise use or exploit any of such photographs and audio or video recordings, including my likeness and voice, taken of me or in which I may be included, for all purposes, including in connection with conversations, interviews, performances, speeches, and/or presentations at The School....
_____________________________________

That clearly is someone close to BKI, who is trying to do another head-game on Janaki, using his knowledge of her, to try to induce shame and guilt, to get the blog taken down.

Who would use a literary reference from the 1700's, of the Ancient Mariner? [en.wikipedia.org] Take a wild guess.

And the username of that person is "Makepeace" [janakisstory.wordpress.com]
BK used the ironic term "peace" many times in her recent comment. Perhaps instead of Makepeace, they should have called themselves...HideTheTruth? MoreDenial? ForcedSilence? SweepItUnderTheRug?
It appears they cannot force Janaki to be silent, so maybe they will try to use those other emotional tactics?



What is Janaki attempting to prove? How about the facts of reality?
Maybe she is showing that Byron Katie was the one who was saying "You are The Work in Europe". Then later, she is trying to say something very different happened?

Its another sadistic comment, from Mr Literary reference.
"Are you enjoying yourself" he asks?
Revenge? Soap-opera?
How ironic, when some of those same people, like to give others a KICK when they are down, to try and keep them down. [forum.culteducation.com]

The Janaki blog does not read of enjoyment, or revenge, or self-pity.
Quite the opposite.
It reads quite calmly, and factually explains what was going on behind the scenes for years.

And now that everyone associated is forced to sign GAG-CONTRACTS so they can't say anything, who knows what is really going on behind the scenes? Its all secret.

And its very healthy to tell the truth, and people have a right to know about expert manipulators, and how they operate. Those lessons can be applied to all sorts of New Wage guru's and their associates.
A person does not "get over" abuse by a Guru in a few weeks or months. It can take a long time.

Quote
Meadow
I looked up the endorsement, and found an interesting comment:

Quote

Janaki, I don’t know what you are attempting to prove by publishing this. The only thing you have proven is that she changed her mind about you. Are you enjoying yourself, or merely prolonging your own pain by telling and embellishing upon this tale again and again like the Ancient Mariner? You must know by now that revenge isn’t sweet in the long run; as the old saying goes, living well is the best revenge; I hope that you will take whatever is good from your past plus whatever you learned from this and make a wonderful new life for yourself. This soap opera is not worthy of you.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/30/2009 12:04AM by The Anticult.