Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Byron Katie Inc.
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: July 31, 2009 05:46AM

Its interesting how "Makepeace" was trying to trip-out on Janaki in the blog comment section, and get under her skin.

There you have a blog by Janaki, who has written about 43 pages.
And then you have an obvious BKI person (you know who, who is trying to deflect from that in his later comments) trying to trip-out on Janaki for writing a few blog pages.

When Byron Katie has THOUSANDS of pages of written content in book and blogs, hundreds of hours of videos online, countless audio CD's, every facilitator has a blog selling Byron Katie, they are using Twitter, and the rest of it.
And Byron Katie has BANNED all comments about The Work, unless they are PR flattery. No critical thinking allowed. All analyses have literally been banned, in writing.
So all anyone who is into The Work can do is to praise the Work, one critical comment, and they will get pulled-down off the BK referral websites, and they are finished. No more BK "facilitation" money.

So even though BKI has thousands of pages of sales PR material on the web, they cannot stand 43 pages of honesty from a former insider, with a couple of updates. They are such control freaks, they can't stand anyone speaking out and telling it like it is.
And that might be the LAST BK insider that will ever be heard from, as they are now all signed to GAG-CONTRACTS, to keep everyone silent.

And "Makepeace" is trying to literally do Turnarounds on Janaki.
The Janaki blog is not a "horror story" its a breath of fresh air, and she even said in her blog she toned it down from what it could have been.
Want a horror story? Read the Byron Katie blogs, and the deception, and the censorship of all criticism. That is a horror story, what goes on in those LGAT seminars.

The only valid point made by Makepeace, is that Byron Katie is a businesswoman. That is correct. She is a hard-nosed capitalist entrepreneur, she is not some airy-fairy spiritual guru.
The New Age Guru act, is just that, its an entertainment performance for the masses.

The REALITY is contained in the behind the scenes business-dealing, and the contracts everyone is forced to sign, and the fact everyone involved in The Work is banned from saying anything other than praise for The Work.
The real horror story, are the covert advanced persuasion techniques being done on people, without their awareness that these techniques even exist, nevermind how they work.

They know that when people find out what is really going on, and exactly how the persuasion tactics work, then they no longer work, they backfire. That is why they have banned all critical analysis of any kind, and have now silenced all of their own people with gag-contracts, to try and keep a lid on everything.
Its so incredibly cynical, how they talk about "Freedom" when in fact, what they are doing is literally the exact opposite.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/31/2009 05:54AM by The Anticult.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: Cruz ()
Date: July 31, 2009 06:01AM

The Anticult
“(...) a recent teleconference with BK: Byron Katie is not so sweet-sounding there. She is saying she will revoke the Facilitator referrals, if you say anything "negative" about The Work, or associate with anyone who does. She gives a clear threat to anyone who posts their profile on a website she does not like...take the profile down, or she will kick you out.”


[]: “BKI has informed people that their profiles will be pulled from the facilitator’s page of, should they keep their profile posted on my website ( If your profile is on my website and you want it to be removed, please let me know as soon as possible.”

OMG, Byron Katie’s totally blowing her ‘guru cool’ these days. I heard the teleconference, the actual tone of her voice, I mean. What a poor, pathetic showing. So much for “never being angry” and “loving what is”... Byron Katie is your standard ‘fake it till you make it’-story, and a well-concocted one at that. But where will she go from here?

p.s. I expect that the next teleconference will show a re-adjusted Katie. She knows that instead of losing ‘the moon’, she lost ‘it’ here. "Wherever an ass falls, there will she try to never fall again".

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Byron Katie Inc.
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: July 31, 2009 06:33AM

Does anyone know of a link where the audio for the teleconference is posted for listening?

Or maybe someone who has it could upload it somewhere, to a filesharing site, or to a torrent?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Byron Katie Inc.
Posted by: oncebitten ()
Date: July 31, 2009 08:53AM

"As Mitchell admits, he doesn't read Chinese. Instead of calling this a "translation," he calls it an "English version.""

English Version is some pretty duplictious use of language. If I went it into library or book store looking for the english version of a chinease of sanscrit text, that is definetely not what I would be asking for.

Apparently they think fibbing about the actual facts as long as you get your point across is not a big deal. For instance in BK's 'I need your love is it true?' book in the introduction it talks about BK when she lived next to the desert. Apparently one day after her 'experience' when she was wandering as a free spirit through the desert she saw a rattle snake on the ground, her whole body froze. She got the courage to look again and apparently what she thought was a snake was actually a rope! Great teaching story, only thing it is a very old one used in a lot of different spiritual traditions.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: July 31, 2009 09:29PM

The Snake and the Rope is part of an ancient repertoire.

For fun, go to google. Put a guru or New Wage teacher's name into the exact phrase slot.

Then, put the two words, 'rope' 'snake' into the all words slot. Punch the button then see what you get.

I ran searches using Muktananda, Ramana Maharshi, Aurobindo, and MK Gandhi. Interestingly, Gandhi used the snake and rope metaphor to make a case that immoral behavior leads from a state of delusion--illustrating how a particular teacher cant take this common old story and modify it to suit his particular teaching agenda.

There are just a few metaphors in commonplace use by Hindu gurus, that have been used for centuries. Teaching by illustrations is common, and there are a few metaphors that are common place cliches, but used very, very often. They may have the soothing effect of a lullaby.

The larger lesson for us at is that any non Hindu teacher can learn these same images and rapidly establish rapport with an audience who has heard these before.

You can be sure that anyone who has taken even a cursory glance through Hindu spiriutality or spent even a modest amount of time at an ashram will have encountered the snake and rope story.


She got the courage to look again and apparently what she thought was a snake was actually a rope! Great teaching story, only thing it is a very old one used in a lot of different spiritual traditions.

This is correct.

On page 212 of his memoir, The Ochre Robe (which was published in two editions in 1970 and 1980), Bharati describes the snake and rope analogy.


Thus, in explaining the absoluteness of the Brahman and the relativity of the world, the phenomenality of objects, the analogy of the snake and the rope plus two equally simple analogies, have been used without modification, from the Upanisads down to to the present day.

A man sees what he thinks is a snake, and he acts accordingly--he hits it, or he gets afraid, he may even die with terror; but if a clever man directs a light toward the object and makes the man realize it was only a piece of rope, this particular illusion disappears, and questions like when and where did the snake originate? are no longer asked or are asked in a facetitious manner. The snake is (in this analogy) the phenomenal world, the 'rope' the absolute, the Brahman.

I cannot say whether the tedious repetitiveness of these analogies derives from naivete in the Indian scholastic, or whether it is deliberate--in which latter case, it may be well be a formidable instrument of indoctrination.

I have found among all strata of Hindu laity in pursuit of some religious problem that a persuasive analogy tends to have a greater effect than even wha well reasoned argument when unsupported by a simile or an analogue.

'The 'snake' and the 'rope' seemed to convince the Police Inspector and his guests* just as they ahve been convincing learned (Indian) pundits for many centuries.

*(The Police Inspector sponsored a religious gathering to which Bharati was invited to speak.)

(Pages 212-2, The Ochre Robe, by Agehananda Bharati, 1980 edition)

Folks, this snake and rope story is a commonplace in Indian/Hindu teaching stories.

So...anyone on the seekers circuit who has spent time at an ashram would have encountered this very story. For Bharati makes it clear this was a commonplace teachig cliche.

Here are some examples:

Muktananda used the snake and rope metaphor

From the Meditation Revolution


"Using the classic Vedantic metaphor, Muktananda likened such ignorance to the misapprehension of a snake in what is in truth a coiled rope"

So did Ramana Maharshi:


The World is Unreal

At Ramana Ashram when the Maharshi was alive in physical form, especially when Westerners would come, he would give them a little book. It is only about twelve pages or so, and he would ask them to read it because it contains the essentials of his teaching.


From the 'little book'
I am going to read it and then we can discuss it. Number 4: "When will the realization of the Self be gained?" The Maharshi's answer is, "When the World which is what is seen has been removed there will be Realization of the Self which is the Seer." Number 5: "Will there be realization of the Self even while the world is there?" The answer is simply, "There will not be". "Why?" Maharshi answers, "The Seer and the object seen are like the rope and the snake, -- just as the knowledge of the rope which is the substrate will not arise unless the false knowledge of the illusory serpent goes, so the realization of the Self which is the substrate will not be gained unless the belief that the world is real be removed".


Sri Aurobindo (just read the citations in the search results)


MK Gandhi used this snake rope metaphor to teach about sexual restraint.


'Mind take a rope to be a snake, and the man with that mentality turns pale, runs away, or takes up a stick to belabour the fancied snake. Another mistakes a sister for wife and has animal passion arising in his breast. The passion subsides the moment he realizes his mistake..

So someone who did a layover at an ashram while in their earlier years on the Seekers Circuit would perhaps have a pleasant buzz of famliarity when reading this encounter between BK and her snake.

Hindu monk and Sanscrit scholar Agehananda Bharati was born in Austria and lived in India for years, becoming ordained in 1949. He became proficient enough to teach and lecture to audiences at all levels, from villages to being on faculty at Delhi University and Benares Hindu University. Bharati was often invited to speak at satsangs in pious households.

This bias in which a good story is more persuasive than use of evidence and good reasoning may now have become a widespread bias in Westerners who have been socialized in New Age circles. We are being turned into a hybrid species--wage earners in capitalist society, but under the tutelage of New Wage Brahmins, being skillfully trained to have the mentality of pre-modern peasants who grovel to gurus, lose capacity for abstract and logical thought, and who take metaphors literally.

But the old generation Sanskrit scholars used snake and rope as part of their own tradition of teaching philosophy and logic. This was not used to teach people to zone out.

Unfortunately the Hindu Reform movements tended to be anti intellectual and could and did use these same snake and rope stories to con audiences into accepting a dumbed down version Hinduism in which scholarship and evidence were treated as obstacles to spiritual attainment.

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/31/2009 09:57PM by corboy.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: July 31, 2009 10:18PM

A Use of Snake and Rope Analogy to Invalidate Reports of Power Abuse by a Guru

This is a hypothetical scenario.

Maybe something like this can happen. I dont know, Ive not been there. This is just my guess.

Different ways to use Snake and Rope story--courtship, discarding trust in own boundaries. perceptions, invalidation when one later tries to reclaim boundaries.

*Courtship Phase--Guru approaches your boundaries. You by the way know nothing except the PR version of who the guru is. If he happens to be a horn-dog, this information is kept hidden from you.

1) Uses snake and rope story to persuade you to accept, provisionarlly, that we cannot trust our own perceptions--as part of an introduction to Hinduism

*You move into the ashram. Your guru is becoming your Love Object

2) Guru uses snake and rope story to move into your psychological boundries and blur those boundaries. Persuades you and other ashram denizens to further distrust their perception of reality and to replace it with the guru's version. Perhaps you go into bliss states during retreats where snake and rope are part of the program. Snake and rope story gets linked to bliss states?

*You Discover Guru is Abusive and Try to Speak Up

3) Guru uses snake and rope story to suggest you are in delusion. As this snake and rope story is part of process used earlier to bliss you out, you get confused. Meanwhile the others who are still loyal to the guru have been conditioned by the same snake and rope story and think you're nuts too.

You leave. If you are lucky you find a therapist who has ZERO connections with the guru and ashram.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: Meadow ()
Date: August 01, 2009 01:04AM

BK's last Twitter post: (is this an imbedded command?)


Until you are loyal to yourself, you can’t be loyal to another person.

I agree with her. I think that she is totally loyal to herself, therefore her followers can rest assured in the knowledge that BK will be loyal to them. She is the perfect example of this statement.

If she wants to throw people out (I noticed the blank spots on the facilitators page on her website) without notice or explanation, she will. So she is loyal to herself. If she wants to take vast amounts of money from people while making false promises, she will. So she is loyal to herself. If she wants to change her mind and add to the rules at random or whenever it suits her purposes, she will. So she is loyal to herself. If she wants to speak ill of people, she will. So she is loyal to herself. If she wants to make people sign agreements to shut them up (even though they do not apply to her), she will. So she is loyal to herself. If she wants people to volunteer for her company, even though she makes thousands of dollars, she will. So she is loyal to herself. If she wants to abstain from telling the truth, she will. So she is loyal to herself.

It seems that under the pretext of 'loyalty' BK permits herself to do what she forbids everyone else.

And if I am not mistaken she calls this freedom... or enlightenment... or loving what is... or being at peace..., take your pick.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Byron Katie Inc (the Work) and Certified Facilitators
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: August 01, 2009 02:36AM

That Byron Katie Inc Certified Facilitators page is something else. []
There appear to be 100-115 "certified" facilitators so far. As shown in this thread, to become a "certified" facilitator costs a bundle (how much in total?).

And there are a couple of blank spots! Have people been pulled?

And there are some people, who already have full rosters and are not accepting new clients. Even at a mere $100 a hr, that is $16,000 a month, almost 200K a year.
And what would Byron Katie's daughter Roxann Burroughs charge per hour? $400? more?
There is very significant money being made by some "certified" facilitators.

But since there are around 100-115 of these "certified facilitators" on the list, is does make sense that Byron Katie would play such hard-ball with them. That is a lot of people to "manage" and keep in line.
The BK Twitter:
"Until you are loyal to yourself, you can’t be loyal to another person."

That is a very interesting and confusing phrase. That is actually a Turnaround, in a sense.
Because if you are loyal to yourself, then you CANNOT be totally loyal to another person.
Classic loyalty is defined as the opposite of what Byron Katie says.

LOYAL "faithful to a private person to whom fidelity is due c : faithful to a cause, ideal, custom, institution, or product" []

Its hard to know what she is trying to do with that. As stated above, maybe its meant to try to explain away Byron Katie's own totally self-centered behavior?

Guru's #1 problem is so-called "loyalty" from their own people. But its not a real loyalty, because its a 1-way street, with all the benefits going to the Guru.
So that would explain why Byron Katie was so tough in her teleconference above. She has the carrot and the stick to try and control this large group of 115 people, and some of those people are also "players" and wannabe micro-gurus, in their own way.

But she has set up the certified facilitators, she she can PULL DOWN anyone at anytime, without notice, and they will lose all of their clients. So Byron Katie keeps them all on a very short-leash, and she can pull that leash anytime she wants.

The way BK has tried to redefine the word "loyalty" is very similar to how Werner Erhard tried to redefine the word "Integrity", to mean basically the opposite.

[] Werner Erhard on Integrity, Morality, Ethics, Legality (not a joke!)

Options: ReplyQuote
Byron Katie Inc, Grace Unfolding: Psychotherapy in the Spirit of Tao
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: August 01, 2009 03:35AM

A follow-up about the book
Grace Unfolding: Psychotherapy in the Spirit of Tao-te ching (Paperback)

The second quote from the Introduction is from (Mitchell, 67).
And they had to seek permission from the publishers to quote from their books, so they knew about that book in detail for many years, until they copied its format.

The goal of the Byron Katie Tao book, was to try to associate Byron Katie as BEING The Tao. As in Byron Katie = The Tao.
The Work = The Way, that is what they are trying to sell.

Stephen Mitchell seems to think that a spouse handing over a sacred wedding ring to a New Age Guru at a self-help LGAT seminar is amusing.
So how amused would Stephen Mitchell be if his current or previous wives "gave away" the copyrights to some of his books?
How would he feel if one of his New Age versions of a classic book, was simply "given away" by his wife without his permission or knowledge to Sai Baba?

There are many DOZENS of honest scathing reviews of this New Age "made up" Tao book.
As said by many, those so-called "translations" are not translations, and cannot be trusted, due to the complete absense of intellectual honesty.

Tao Te Ching by Stephen Mitchell []
"an interpretation based on personal biases with no scholarship behind it"
"Mitchell's pulled entire passages out of thin air in places where he either doesn't understand the text or can't square it with his own conception of Taoism"

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/01/2009 03:52AM by The Anticult.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Byron Katie Inc, review of Tao Te Ching by Stephen Mitchell
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: August 01, 2009 03:41AM

QUOTE of review of Tao Te Ching by Stephen Mitchell


a fabrication,
January 4, 2009
By rcr

In his preface and notes which form a part of this book, Mitchell (1)makes clear his belief that Lao-tzu is a historic person , and not just a mythical figure; (2) asserts that the Tao Te Ching (TTC)is the work of a single author, Lao-tzu; (3) states that his "most essential preparation" for writing his version of the TTC is a 14 year study of Zen Buddhism "which brought me face to face with Lao-tzu and his true disciples, the early Chinese Zen Masters."
As to assertions 1 and 2, for the past 40 years, experts on Taoism (I will define "experts" as professors specializing in Taoist studies at US, Asian and EU colleges and universities who have published books on Taoism) have unanimously agreed that there is a total absence of documentary evidence for the historical existence of Lao-tzu, and that the TTC is definitely not the work of one author. And the overwhelming majority of experts on Taoism over the past 40 years are in agreement that Taoism and Zen Buddhism are NOT identical or substantially identical religions or philosophies.

In a review of Mitchell's book in a 10/26/89 issue of "The Nation,"the reviewer David Hinton observes:

"by my rough estimation, in the course of translating the {TTC}...(approximately 985 lines),Mitchell has rewritten about 150 lines so radically that they bear virtually no relation to the original, has eliminated about 250 lines, and about 170 lines HAVE BEEN INVENTED OUT OF THIN AIR (emphasis added). Sometimes the inventions replace lines Mitchell has deleted. sometimes they are simply added to what was already there.In either case, they correspond to nothing whatsoever in the text...I suppose Mitchell's crowning moment comes in chapter 50, where lines of his own invention are crowned with commentary by Zen master Seung Sahn."

For his translations of the works of classical Chinese poets,Hinton subsequently received the top two poetry translation awards in the US--the Landon Award and the PEN Award. Stephen Mitchell has not received and will not receive either of these two awards--unlike the majority of the Amazon reviewers of this book, professional translators understand what Mitchell does, which is fabrication, or, more bluntly, the creation of falsehoods.
If Mitchell has produced a work which bears only a faint resemblance to the received text, he does accurately reveal truths about himself--one need only examine the lines which he chooses to alter or delete: in the second verse of Chapter 8, for example, he deletes the following 3 lines--"In giving, the good thing is being like Heaven/In speaking the good thing is sincerity/In affairs the good thing is ability."

Options: ReplyQuote

Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
This forum powered by Phorum.