Ditch_Digging_Yasper Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- "Vain Glory" by Tony Cox ________________________________________________________ I haven't seen it but I suspect you won't learn much more than you did on factnet, some true and some not true. However if you must, before trying to contact Cox, goggle David Clark, Exit Counselor, Phila
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

changedagain Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > paleface Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > And its really a drag when that elder that is > your > > trusted "designated relationship" decides that > you > > need to submit to him sexually. > > That never happened to me. B
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

corboy Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > > > And this is the point. Being ambushed in a context > of trust. > > Who expects this kind of treatment in and from a > church???? > > Because of the prior context of love and trust, we > dont have a 'frame' to make sense of a sudden > shift into coercion. >
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

FCSLC Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > One of the first things I did after refusing to > submit to the lead shepherd in Salt Lake City, > after being admonished in a letter sent to my home > by John Miller stating it was necessary to submit > in order to remain in the fellowship, was to throw > away all the JRS authored literature I had &g
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

palmermarilyn Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > > and 3 men took me into the office and locked me > in, and made me listen to some confidentiality > tape, and sign a form that I would not talk about > what happens in the service. -------------------------------------------- I heard of congregants being locked up during pastoral counseling un
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

changedagain Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Bob was labeled a spiritual > failure--something I reacted to as grossly > inappropriate. Perhaps it was just another > instance where I found God unacceptable. ------------------------------------- Outrageous coming from a guy with a 2x4 in his eye. Remember the boomerang. Dish it out and it come
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

changedagain Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Years into my extensive experience in TLWF, it > became clear to me that any ministry that > exhibited kindness and was primarily concerned > about the welfare of those they ministered to, was > doomed. Because that very nature would conflict > with the requirement to minister "the > cr
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

palmermarilyn Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I was a member of this cult in the late 70s. I > belonged to the valley church, where at the time > Glen Oswald was the pastor. _____________________________________- Welcome palmermarilyn! I know it was a long time ago but wasn't David Cokas valley pastor in the late 70s?
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

paleface Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Here's an odd question: have any of you ever been > held or detained on Living Word property (or at a > communal home) against your will? Where you > wanted to leave, but were not allowed to? ____________________________________________________ A cult seldom controls its member by using physica
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

FCSLC Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Romans 11:29 --- for the gifts and the calling of > God are irrevocable. > > --------------------------------- Saul was chosen to be king and the Lord repented he had made Saul King over Israel 1 Sam 15:35. Saul being chosen was later revoked. The gifts and calling of God are irrevocable but being chos
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

> Invisible Wrote Regarding a Wedding: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > I'd already been through a lot, had seen a lot > > and ( the lot ) of what I was coming to > realize > > was forming with in me - and I said to myself, > > with a plastic stemmed glass in hand, in having > > to look up, " WHAT A FAR
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

Invisible, The way you see things helps connect the dots and fill in the blanks. Thanks!
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

changedagain Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > > What ensued was a bloodbath of consolidation of > power, > pushing out a lot of people due to longstanding > grudges, > turmoil, revolving doors of in/out leaders, and > daily > beatings from the pulpit demanding more and more > submission > and the yielding to more and more d
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

paleface Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I seem to recall that Gary did not spend much time > as a set-aside ministry. -------------------------------- 1978-79 does anyone recall hearing about threats against John? Gary thought John needed protection so Gary joined the police force or a security firm so he could carry a gun to protect John. This me
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

Invisible Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > > Any one who was serving in a given area of the > ministry, who was commissioned as a ministry - or > set in the church - as a ministry, was > considered by all, to be a man of excellent > character. -------------------------------------------- Kind of begs the question, how could John ha
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

changedagain Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > > I try not to hear communist every time > someone either writes or says comm-west. Oh well. --------------------------- Wasn't comm-west like an inner cult within the cult?
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

I was initially drawn to the CLW because of the teaching regarding restoration of the early church practices which as many of us know missed the mark. I'm currently reading "Pagan Christianity?" (2002,2008) by Frank Viola & George Barna. Consider the following from page 248: The New Testament Church did not have clergy. Apostolic workers were not viewed as being part of a spec
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

Invisible Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > > As a point of reference - as we here , have > discussed and expressed in many different ways - > Today we know that the mistreatment of the members > of the church for any reason - is not of the Lord. > We now know and understand - that destroying the > relationship of those who are marrie
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

FCSLC Wrote: > > > > I appreciate all the posts on this forum. I > realize we rehash some main points, but I believe > it is good because many of us were “picked > off” in isolated situations where we were > outnumbered by the mob. As Invisible noted, truth > stumbles in the street in those situations. It > never gets boring for me when there is so much
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

Invisible, Changedagain, FCSLC, JHorning, Thank you for the clarifications and insights. Yes, much to ponder. "Examine everything!" (ITh 5:21).
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

Invisible Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > it was said by some that when they questioned > Gary & Marilyn about this - they were told that a > tape recording was made of the event, which G&M, > said, they were going to be playing for the > church - but that this tape recording made of John > privately giving to Gary (and Marily
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

FCSLC, do you know in what year Bowman passed? I remember the Maxwells; they were very health conscious.
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

Invisible, your insights always very healing. Someone posted a while back either here or on factnet that John was obedient to the word the Lord gave him to pass the mantle to G&M. I'm not so sure John always had a pipeline to the will of God and I wonder if the term mantle of authority wasn't misguided thinking that was misused by John and G&M. If John never had a mantle of auth
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

During my time at Shiloh the movie Grease was popular and John Miller warned us about one of the female characters, Rizzo, being a "channel." I don't think so.
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

I guess a way for a fleshly desire to be better than others is to want to belong to an inner circle more than you want to be humbled. I saw brothers throw brothers under the bus to be close to John. There have been posts about that. And I remember one brother, Mike, he looked like a homeless person and was very emotional and cried a lot having been in Vietnam. After he married into the inner cir
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

paleface Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I hear they bought Gary and > Marilyn their first swank house on Diamond Head. --------------------------- That must be a blessed assurance for the Gospodnetichs that is to say that G&M probably won't excommunicate them. I want to say something about the the inner circle.....
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

A while back during a vacation and much to my surprise, stayed at a b&b inn that was owned/run by Carol Grunenberg. Carol and Craig once pastored South Gate and Honolulu. After they divorced Carol dropped Grunenberg as her last name. Carol, Lucy Gospodnetich (Honolulu Fellowship,) and Margeret ? (Shiloh late 70's) are cousins and were beneficiaries to the $250 Million sell of the family
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

I can't imagine the devastation of being told by G&M, leave we have no need of you or congregants being told stay away from him/her. David experienced the devastation of division in families; in Psalm 133 he likens unity to the precious oil upon the head running down. The oil (unity) begins at the head and flowed down; brotherly love descending from the head (leadership) to all parts
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

Thank you Invisible for your insights (I am enriched) and thank you to all in this community for the mutual edification. There is no choke hold on us; we're not being silenced by a man made hierarchy.
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

larry bobo Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > When you truly surrender to Him, you stop > wanting to control others – that’s His job, > not yours. You can’t be fearful to > look at the fruit, no matter how great your > imagination of inflated self is or how detached > you become from reality. > ------------------- A few years ag
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families