Public humilation also creates a confusion in the mind of the humiliated person, acts as a thought stopper--in future he will think twice before asking a question--so its a double whammy--no answer given because there is none and the person gets a mental kicking that he will remember. We can dream or learn, is my best guess.
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

How does that make any of them better than you or me, you know? Well, they ain't, but they're the only ones who don't know that yet. Knopfler alert:
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

I've just had a small gospel choir in singing carols and stuff, so your meditation is apposite, zeuszor. It was very lively, friendly and jolly. There was this I noticed on the Wankers page, I thought it PR with no possibility of truth in it, but may be mistaken: "Graduate" Report 03/10/2011 20:19 Over the past few months I have been having a great deal of diffi
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Well, I guess the genie is out of the bottle now and won't be going back in anytime soon. That was the best? bit of the Secret movie for me, the one time I watched it, the big blue genie that Deathray conjured up.
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Here you go, Haw Haw, some good $cientology articles on the news feed on the homepage--you'd find them educational--I am--I always wondered, before I knew about the El Ron homestead connection, why East Grinstead was such a vortex for new-agey, cultic stuff. It was uncanny, the guy who I first discussed Bandler with lived in East Grinstead--and by coincidence I'd met his wife, a
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Greetings Apollo, nice to see you back.
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

I've been thinking about that Malcolm, can't help with Vicky as I don't know enough JC history or in detail, but my ruminations did produce this link from BlackHat that was interesting and might be worth further thought. We would need to involve the almost defunct xJC's though, to get the real skinny. Is there nothing at all happening there these days?
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Walter, I've never studied NLP, read the first couple of books when they first came out but found them a bit pointless. (The people who interested me were the people they modelled so I followed up on them.) Do you think that this stuff is really that effective and long-lasting on the general audience? Does it really have the same effect as the rhetoric of a Hitler or Mussolini--or are the
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

'Even the craving to wake up is no different than the craving that led Bernie Madoff to plunder people.' You got that one right. So if Bernie and the 'spiritual' seeker are both utilising the self-same craving to reach their two different aims, what is it that distinguishes between the two--what makes one 'good' and the other 'bad'? Is there really
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

They (Sogyals audience) undoubtedly do notice but are chivvied back on-message by the enforcers. We might have a couple here already, though I naturally have a very suspicious nature.
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Yes, welcome back. Your stuff is worth discussion.
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

This is all very interesting Karam Mudra but this is the Sogyal thread. Maybe you could start a new thread or keep this interesting tantric stuff on the Kalachakra thread? It helps to keep these discussions on track if we can remember and distinguish between the main topics being discussed. Whether or not June Campbell was a nun, she was first an ordinary woman--we don't need to nec
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Thats a really good article, good enough. I liked this bit the most: "['The Secret'] is incredibly materialistic and narcissistic, but superstitions and magical thinking are built into our brain," says Michael Shermer, who writes for the Skeptic magazine and Scientific American. "It doesn't matter what your education level or environment is. It takes a fair amoun
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Why are we blaming Sogyal for doing what is in the teachings to do? Because Sogyal is an ordinary man with a much or as little free will as any of us gets--so his behaviour is judged on his overt actions. In the west we hold people to account for their actions--tempered with some mercy if it is warranted--but people are held to account, not made excuses for. The answers aren't in the
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

In case anyone is wondering and putting 2 and 2 together to make anything other than 4--I ain't June Campbell and never have been. My disillusionment came a lot earlier and was, for me, a lot harder to figure out--since I did not have any remotely decent grounding to build upon. And you can speculate about 'introjects' all you want--I am just damn glad that I stumbled across an
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

BTW, taking the payoff keeps you in the crooked game, however peripherally. If you truly want out you walk away with nothing but the lessons learned. Its the only way to win, short of going to law, and we all know how that one works (at least thus far in our evolvement as a species).
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

I think Campbell got a raw deal, she was caught in something where the rules of engagement were not clear and the players against her held all the cards. I have sympathy for her predicament, but she was an adult woman and free to keep refusing if that was what she really wanted to do. The problem was that she thought she was playing on a totally different field of endeavour--human to human, with
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

I think that this is part of how Sogyal works his schtick. He knows that vulnerable people are going to take all this stuff seriously, why else would they join unless to gain some benefit? He, as a longtime part of the system, knows that the rules do not apply to him or his fellows which gives him both carte blanche to abuse his power and the sure knowledge that not one of his fellows will rat h
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Its about ground rules, you have to know the ground rules before going in--its the reason I never signed up as a buddhist. There is no way I am taking vows: A) that are impossible to fulfil. B) have never been kept since they were written. I did accept the ground rules of my teacher, which were simple and clear. I abided by them scrupulously too. I have respect for my word and do not give
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Yes Mysstyk, and it was written over 2000 years ago by a man for men ---does this ring any bells? What other 2000 year old directives written by some unknown person do we rigidly adhere to today?
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Who gives them the power? Re the 'enlightenment' you must have heard the old Irish joke (I was born there so I think it passes the PC police): A man walking on a rural road stops to ask an old farmer for directions to a nearby town. The farmer ponders the question and replies, “I’m afraid you can’t get there from here.” It is about people having differing views of the world, n
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

'I have nothing to do with lamas and gurus, Stoic. The problem is they are ordinary people, not enlightened at all.' And thats a problem?
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'I am just totally fed up with lamas and gurus,' So why not stay well away from lamas and gurus and hone your discerning eye--which will always come in handy---on ordinary people?
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

I'd definitely avoid the 12 step group with the LEC grads--thats setting yourself up for a double whammy. Its a trust issue really--with the therapist as well--if she cannot shut up about LEC after you insist then you should walk. A certain amount of manipulation is to be expected in life, I think-- there isn't a person alive who does not attempt to get their own way by some means or
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

The other alternative is to tell her to shut up about her private passions. You are presumably paying this woman so you are entitled to set some parameters. If you don't feel up to putting your foot down, discuss it with your husband and let him do it. Someone has to bite the bullet or you are going to be strung along and short-changed--paying for therapy while gettin a hard-sell for even
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Grainne, maybe its possible to hone your discerning eye for twelve years before looking for a teacher. Maybe then you might realise that there are no perfect people available and that you have to take the best that you can find that suits your particular needs. This isnt quite what might have been dangled as the enticing carrot, just out of your grasp--but it is more realistic. If you spent t
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

'so I found it quite beneficial to learn of Gurdjieff's true character and motives, after I have revered him for so long.' So did you ever dicover his true character and motives, vivian111, and do you still revere him--present tense?
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

'Those books explore the notion that The Tavistock Institute might have a hand in many cults (and fascist regimes),' Yes, I've heard that one--and even attended one session at the clinic once. (decided it was useless) Its like the MK Ultra conspiracy theories (something Bernard has imbibed, no doubt, given his fondness for world domination)--there is tangential documentary ev
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Hitler and Stalin were British Agents? Operation Winnie the Pooh? Who wrote these, Bernard? Operation Winnie the Churchill I could accept as he was a recognised and very successful war-monger in his youth, steered an embattled Britain through a rough war and then lost his elected position as leader in peacetime-- But Operation Winnie the Pooh? Someone's having a laugh.
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

I think more to the point, Misstyk, is that I, as a reader, can never know what June Campbell's (or Kalu's come to that) motivations truly were in the incidents that she recounts. (I've yet to read her book, BTW) Only she can ever pin that one down with any satisfaction--if it is ever to be pinned down. I tend to operate in generalities from what I have observed myself to be tru
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"