"It is often argued that we should stay in the midst of churches and bodies whose sins and follies we deplore, in the hope of saving them for God and mankind. Such reasoning has a good deal of force in the first stages of decline. A strong protest may arrest error and stop the gangrene. But as time advances, and the whole body becomes diseased; when the protests have been disregarded, and th
Forum: Destructive Churches

Dear Learning Point, thanks for joining in. Your perspective is really helpful. I would like to address this primarily to all the elders at TP. Others please feel free to read and correct me if I am mistaken in any particular. This is directed to not just Mike and Cyndi but to all the elders and pastors. Someone mentioned to me the other day the new practice of taking offerings at TP. I wo
Forum: Destructive Churches

QuoteEZE3.17Question du jour: Can anyone verify that the following parable/prophecy is indeed circulating within the Inner Circle? RLC is like a tree. The roots are Jesus. The Apostle is the trunk. The members are the branches. The bad branches are leaving the church, leaving the good branches. Once all the bad branches are pruned off and all that remain are good branches, RLC is des
Forum: Destructive Churches

Facts? Hummm ... and with all due respect, were I to be so bold as to name names, you would clearly be eating your words, for such as the county tax appraisor clearly lists such proofs of the numerous properties owned by a local megachurch CC pastor, who has the mass majority of the congregation believe that he had to borrow money from his father-in-law in order to afford his lowly $200,000 hou
Forum: Destructive Churches

Iifeisafunnything, I too have an acquaintance that speaks with the same ignorance. When I say ignorance, I do not say this with a negative tone, but from the real meaning of the word. Most people, even those who have some kind of close connection, have no idea of what is really taught and especially “IMPLIED”. Most of the young people, 16-25 years especially, spend a lot of time in his home an
Forum: Destructive Churches

Meta Question--Do I Want to be a Legal Test Case? Additional Questions--Six, Seven and Eight If you think we play rough on Rick Ross's message board, it is actually worse, much worse in court. Reading our stuff might perhaps save you from that fate. I served twice as a juror in civil suits and it hurt me like hell watching people put through the wringer on the witness stand. Th
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

exImpact makes an excellent point about philosophy: the study of philosophy exposes one to many different ideas about how we gain knowledge (i.e. epistemology). The 3 books I mentioned in the previous post all teach different philosophies. "Atlas Shrugged" details Rand's own philosophy of objectivism as it relates to happiness, love, and life. She also exposes the absurdities o
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Dear VC and others: There are some topics that are intellectually fascinating, can be discussed and argued about forever, but cannot be solved. It will be a mere chasing after the wind, vanity of vanities. Free will/determinism is one topic that has never been solved. . Nonduality vs Dual nature of reality is another Meme Theory is a fun toy for the mind, but its just an hypothesis
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

One of the things that escapes me and I never discussed it with anyone is how to be proactive vs. reactive when it comes to these outreach workers. In other words, forewarned is forearmed. Years ago there was a Purim spoof of the Jewish Press called “The Not the Jewish Press,” which had an “ad” in the “Classified section” which said, “Are you afraid of your child’s growing involvement wi
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

One of the movers and shakers in the Carlebach movement is Rabbi Joel (Yankele) Dinnerstein. I did some research about him and I also met him once when I was living in Perth Amboy some years ago. He told me “Man, you got me down!” I try to use my brain these days. He used to work for The Abraham Residence, which is a kosher homeless shelter. Later on he moved on and founded and now head
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Quoterrmoderatorrealuphuman.net: Your posts are little more than self-promotion, rants and personal attacks. This is against the rules you agreed to before posting here. No email addresses or contact information may be posted. Stay within the rules or you will be banned from this message board. Last warning. With the entire content directed into your care -- both public and pri
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

QuotebernmuttDoes anyone have first-hand knowledge of Pastor Hagee's prosperity teaching? I'm doing some research on it. I would like to talk with someone who knows the man, maybe used to partner with him or his Cornerstone Church in San Antonio, where he is senior Pastor? RE: . I am not impressed by John Hagee at all. He needs to speak the truth.... not the gospel of Hagee... I f
Forum: Destructive Churches

QuoteGeneZTruthtesty said... It's quite possible that political powers that be within the USA, paid Thieme to teach as he did. For political persuasion of christians within the United States." Everyone read that? At first I could not believe my eyes. Well, one thing you admitted by that. He would have had the respect of those in power. Cults do not get that k
Forum: Destructive Churches

QuotesistersoapYou have placed your faith in doctrines and devices and not in Christ himself and His words alone. Thieme stood in between us and the Word and we mistook the one for the other because we believed what he taught us. Please speak for yourself here. I know what my faith is in, and it's not in Bob Thieme. I just disagree with practically everything you said here, so I don&
Forum: Destructive Churches

So, I've been reading all of the mainstream self-help type books about cults, and I finally got to Steve Hassan's "Combatting Cult Mind Control." I started reading it today, and have already had several "a-ha" moments. I'm also really starting to feel the grief of my loss through my involvement with Byron Katie. Over the last week, there was a discussion her
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Shabbetai Zvi Compared to Jack Hickman Life of Shabbetai Zvi (various spellings) Shabbetai Zvi was born in Smyrna in 1626, he showed early promise as a Talmudic scholar, and even more as a student and devotee of Kabbalah. More pronounced than his scholarship were his strange mystical speculations and religious ecstasies. He traveled to various cities, his strong personality and his alternate
Forum: Abusive and Controlling Relationships

HI Jack, Modern Christianity is different than other monotheistic religions in that the modern Christian believes that the one Creator God ''manifested'' himself in the person of Jesus. We believe that Jesus was a part of God in the same way that my own hand is a part of me. My hand ''is'' me...yet is a ''seperate'' entity. So the &
Forum: Hate Groups

My hat off to you sir! That pretty much nails them - twisted, bastardadized concepts that seem ever so benign but on closer inspection are just part of the control system they operate. I have TRIED TRIED TRIED to get this and many other of their trickery and lies across to leckies to no avail. Take the other LE favourite - Integrity. I quote Wikipedia - "Integrity is a characteristic
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Truthtesty said... It's quite possible that political powers that be within the USA, paid Thieme to teach as he did. For political persuasion of christians within the United States." Everyone read that? At first I could not believe my eyes. Well, one thing you admitted by that. He would have had the respect of those in power. Cults do not get that kind of res
Forum: Destructive Churches

Quotehoax108Quotesman - I don't think Christians find it acceptable that Christ suffered - most are deeply saddened by this, mourn his passion, and mourn their own frailty when they consider how weak they are and yet look what Christ did. Anyway - I do not want to get into a debate with you either, nor I am even remotely qualified to do so. I prefer to look at the similarities of Christia
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Quotehoax108Quotesman - I don't think Christians find it acceptable that Christ suffered - most are deeply saddened by this, mourn his passion, and mourn their own frailty when they consider how weak they are and yet look what Christ did. Anyway - I do not want to get into a debate with you either, nor I am even remotely qualified to do so. I prefer to look at the similarities of Christia
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Quotesman - I don't think Christians find it acceptable that Christ suffered - most are deeply saddened by this, mourn his passion, and mourn their own frailty when they consider how weak they are and yet look what Christ did. Anyway - I do not want to get into a debate with you either, nor I am even remotely qualified to do so. I prefer to look at the similarities of Christianity and Vai
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

When I was a little boy, due to my father’s side of the family on his mother’s side, I was influenced such that I thought I wanted to be an orthodox Jew. I thought that orthodoxy was perfectly moral, perfectly rational, perfectly scientific, and well, just perfect. Then I went to Israel in the late ‘70’s and found out what was really flying. I had always asked my parents to send me to
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Looks like all the "bad PR" about the MSIA and John-Roger has got David Allen to try a new approach to PR. There is an article in WIRED MAGAZINE by Gary Wolf that gives some information about the past of David Allen, which before was just told in very general terms. But the problem with the article by Gary Wolf is that it plays like an advertisement by discounting the very ve
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

During the years I participated, 1973-83, the Fellowship and Community changed enormously. A model was Abraham leaving the land of his birth for an unnamed place that God would show him. In the years since leaving, I have carried this legacy of the Community by continuing to change. Yet, sometimes when preachers call for decisions, I feel that God respects my objections to being troubled again. A
Forum: Abusive and Controlling Relationships

During the years I participated, 1973-83, the Fellowship and Community changed enormously. A model was Abraham leaving the land of his birth for an unnamed place that God would show him. In the years since leaving, I have carried this legacy of the Community by continuing to change. Yet, sometimes when preachers call for decisions, I feel that God respects my objections to being troubled again. A
Forum: Abusive and Controlling Relationships

I'm going to get involved in the Sedona method, as I've 'acquired' it. So far it's more appealing than Release because the cds don't go "and a little more... and more." My main purpose is to become parallel to my mom, understand what she's feeling and maintain connection. If you are a religious person, believe in Jesus, Allah, Mohammed, A
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

The ancient historical records of the Torah indicate that Jews are descended from Abraham and his grandchild, Judah. Furthermore, Levi and Judah are the only 2 shevot (tribes) left among the 12 tribes as 10 were lost. To my way of thinking, and of course Rick agrees with this analysis, this is the correct way of viewing the issue. Apostate Jews Jews are not welcome in Israel, that's
Forum: Destructive Churches

Two thousand years ago, after the destruction of the 2nd Temple in Jerusalem, the Jews were dispersed to all 4 corners of the earth and we settled in many foreign lands. Before the exile, Jews all originated in the Middle East and we are semites descended from the same man, Abraham our father, as the Arabs are. In fact, when my current landlord who is a devout Moslem first met me, he asked
Forum: Destructive Churches

QuoterrmoderatorMoishe3rd: I am not attempting to convert you and/or anyone else. Believe whatever you wish. Preaching is prohibited by the rules of the message board, which you read and agreed to before posting here. I understand. My purpose is the defense of what I consider blatantly false charges against people and organizations that are trying to accomplish good and decent goals. I
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"