QuoteGregory8899I just found this. Since I'm new here, pardon if this has been posted elsewhere: A documentary on Werner opened April 2006, and showed in Atlanta two days ago. Looks like Werner, at 70, helped out! Can't wait to see it. The original meaning of the word deconstruct as created by Jacques Derrida is that the underyling, hidden assumptions and framework can be fo
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

A well stated blog on Cuddle Parties at : =================== CUDDLE CORRUPTION This gave me pause: Quote It's not about sex and all about the touchy-feely experience of snuggling up to perfect strangers wearing pajamas. The grab fests are called cuddle parties, and since they started in New York in February, hundreds of people have paid $30 each to touch and embrace others in
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

QuoteAcid ReindeerCaligari, apples and oranges. by the time the scandals came about est, the company already had a solid existence and a hardcore of dedicated followers. <snip> You don't appear to be responding to me. -- Caligari
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

QuoteAcid Reindeerone matter I had not put up, because I had thought of it... the founder of CuddleParty, has a business right? if he maintains a tense atmosphere where anyone feels threatened, his business will collapse fast. (ditto if an assault takes place, by the way.) I think the emphasis on using yes and no tends to indicate that they know that you cannot secondguess the feelings/
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

QuoteAcid ReindeerQuotecaligariThe view that the destruction of people's ego and individuality is good clarifies the principal for the defense of events like Cuddle Parties. destroy? awful big word for an event that last two or three hours. A temporary destruction of ego or loss of identity is a partial destruction of identity. QuoteAcid Reindeersee I try not to generalize like that.
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

QuoteAcid ReindeerQuotecaligariQuoteAcid Reindeerif you looked into the folkways of any culture on Earth you will find losing identity as a central human experience. you will a lot more freaky business than Cuddle Party on this planet of ours. try ritualistic scarification ceremonies, group sex, Appalachian snakebiting cults, those crazy Japanese phallus festivals. shocking I know. If you consi
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

QuoteAcid ReindeerCaligari, though you keep harping on this damage or whatever that could happen, like I said, possibility does not equal certainty. What I am doing is predicting outcome based on activity. If you put human beings into a staged situation where they are doing a specific type of action, the results from those actions can be predicted. The prediction may turn out false, true or p
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

QuoteAcid ReindeerCaligari, you remind me of my mom*... within the space of a sentence she would go from possibility to probability to certainty, provided she wanted to believe in that certainty. yes, alternate states of consciousness. no, inducing them does not invariably lead to Satanic machinations. if I start seeing Scientologist types handing out CuddleParty flyers on the street, if
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

QuoteAcid ReindeerQuoteNow even people like those in the theatre will not start suddenly cuddling with strangers. no, they wouldn't, but they also wouldn't have paid to go to the movie theatre to cuddle with strangers any more than you would go to one of the cuddle parties to see a movie. To not discriminate who one is with, their motives, intellect and individuality and physically
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

QuoteAcid Reindeerdon't condemn something you wouldn't do, just because you do not understand the motivations behind it. you have overlaid so much of your acculturation. do you consider it morally wrong to cry during a movie along with a whole lot of strangers? oh, and unlike with the key party, you do get a choice as to who you cuddle with, it says right on the website. On crying
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

QuoteglamHi Klaus! You came to the right place. There's lots of information here about est. For people more familiar with Denver's history than I am: Didn't he denounce est? -Glam From what I know, John Denver distanced himself from Werner and est. -- Caligari
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Quotecorboy<snip> So when someone claims to use Buddhism, find out which authors they were inspired by, otherwise you may never know whether they're referring to out of date sources. Find out whether they are aware of the ethical foundation of all Buddhist practice, too. <snip>. While the ethical, moderate application of Buddhism renders it non or probably
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Quote$cienTomogyIt's a work in progress... but still, the vids thus far are somewhat chilling.... :shock: Enjoy!!! :D Thanks for providing the video information. From the manner that Tom Cruise responds to the interviewers by first name, asking questions back of them, displaying certainty of his views, etc., it looks like he has gotten instruction on managing interactions
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

QuoteelenaAlso, how funny is it that he made a ton more money selling ~nothing~ than he ever did selling something. I'll bet he's having a good laugh about that. Ellen Yup, it may have been an epiphany that he could make much more on placebos and avoid liability. -- Caligari
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

QuoteelenaQuotecaligari I think that Flores doesn't openly repudiate est/Landmark because they have a philosophical kinship. -- Caligari I dunno....maybe I'm a litttle more ~cynical~ or something, but I just suspect there is more to his "silence" than that. After all, there was much fanfare generated and I'll bet lots of Landmarkers were disappointed when he
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

QuoteelenaQuotecaligariQuoteelena <snip> What happened between Fernando Flores and Werner Erhard? Any idea? Ellen A tidbit: Fernando Flores is now a Senator in Chile. His website is (in spanish) where his interests are promoted. On the site it says (using google translation) "Fernando Flowers is Senator of the Republic, Region of Tarapacá, by period 2002- 2010."
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Quoteelena <snip> What happened between Fernando Flores and Werner Erhard? Any idea? Ellen A tidbit: Fernando Flores is now a Senator in Chile. His website is (in spanish) where his interests are promoted. On the site it says (using google translation) "Fernando Flowers is Senator of the Republic, Region of Tarapacá, by period 2002- 2010." -- Caligari
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

QuoteelenaLOL...Seems like it might serve them better to pay for the tuition of a "bonehead" English class for the author of their blurbs. Ellen Hehe...all as a result of Steve Jobs spell checking dictionary getting corrupted (j/k). -- Caligari
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Quotesonnie_deeThis is not the first time I have heard of advertisments like this. As far as I know they are not "authorised" by Landmark. Graduates often do things like this to promote their introductions. Usually it is people who are in the middle of ILP (Introduction Leader Programme) who are trying to fulfill their guest numbers. when doing ILP the particpants have a list of t
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Excerpt from portland craigslist post ( ): =========== At AngelVision, we do things a bit different. It is this uniqueness that has been the key to our success. We have adopted a unique management philosophy that promotes ownership and personal fulfillment. We are very dedicated to the success of our Clients and provide extended support that other companies would never provide. And… although
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Looking at the information at the Landmark Graduate site, ILovePossibility.info ( ) it appears that Landmark Education has put it's sites on Asia. Here are some sample entries on the site: =============== Wednesday, June 15, 2005 With great pleasure and very moved by the Team Korea for their passion, we posted our invitation to the Landmark Community Events in Seoul, South Korea for
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

There's an article or Ad at a Real Estate site inviting people to a Intro. to the Forum on 6/15 ( ): =========== Free Introduction to Landmark Education Programs Hosted by The Sets in Tempe June 15 , 2005 by Kathleen Gorden Hamid Hekmatian is a local business man who is very succesful. Not only is he the owner of the SETS in Tempe, he has a very satisfying life overall. When
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Quotesonnie_deeQuoteDoes not paying for courses include ex-staff members from est? That I could not answer. It would depend on the contract. I dont believe they do? I know that landmark staff only get the free tuition if they last longer then a year. The majority of staff quit after 5 months. Those that dont usually quit around the 10/11 month mark. When I was on staff. I was one of th
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

QuotepizzaslapThe idea of cults and particularly LGAT, is fascinating. The curiosity began when a friend of mine joined Landmark and returned as a creepy manic-depressive version of herself. It was disturbing and was similar to the way my brother acted during his heroin addiction. Forutnately, both my friend and my brother have since dropped the monkeys off their backs. Revisiting the experien
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Quotecorboy <snip> Regarding Zen and Buddhism in general, when properly taught, these cannnot be practiced without a commitment to living an ethical life. <snip> Thanks for the clarification on ethical Buddhism. -- Caligari
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Quotesonnie_deeHope <snip> Any one can review any of the courses once they have done them. While on staff I had to review the landmark forum and advanced course and I ended up reviewing most of the courses. (staff and ex staff dont pay for reviewing or doing courses) <snip> Does not paying for courses include ex-staff members from est? :), Cal
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

QuoteelenaQuotecaligari A person’s characteristics can be seen in their actions. Werner enjoyed adoration and referred to himself sometimes as the source (he also referred to the graduates as his source.) But he put less emphasis on idolatry than enrolling people into the courses. In est/LE enrollment is the creation of the enlightenment of the Training/Forum. It is primary and ahead of a
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Quoteroveberg <snip> You can't tell me that all the training is bullshit. This is stuff from Zen Buddhism and famous philosophers. <snip> It doesn’t speak well for Buddhism that Scientology and est/Landmark are in significant part based on Buddhism. But then one should only look historically at the regions where Buddhism was practiced for hundreds of ye
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

QuoteelenaQuotecaligari I think profit and selling is primary for Werner, adoration, loyalty and worthsip are secondary. If there was betting on a contest between him and someone else, he'd put money on both. I'm not too happy about having been in est myself :) But, if John F. Nash, Jr. ( ) can overcome his state of "paranoid schizophrenia" through reason, someone
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

QuoterovebergI opened this thread 5 days ago, and have been too busy since to get back on, but was interested to read everyone's replies. I'd like to respond to each person, and I'm sure it will take some time, that I don't have right now. Everyone's point of view is valid, and I'm not out to go toe-to-toe with anyone. So far I hear varied angles on the same ar
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"