oh boy... here come the sociopaths ... another thoroughly disgusted voice from within the NLP community... but HEY! Give them credit... compared to the other mindwarps around, there is active protest... the fact that they have the independence of mind TO protest is saying something.... and soooooo: " The so called "Governing Bodies" in the NLP community have no real power, n
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Haaa....... it appears that there is not inconsiderable dissent from the "mutual interest in perpetuating grand illusions" NLP monolith... comes in the form of one Shlomo Vaknin who publishes a regular e-zine devoted to goading the bloated NLP beast out of perpetual dreams and semi-comatose bloviating.... Shlomo's website is: and his broad opinion about NLP today, much
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

NLP seems to be going the same way many of these "social industries" are.... more and more strangely written, dense contracts you must sign just to attend.... one I recently saw had a non-disclosure clause buried within it.... oh , and yeah an indemnification clause meaning YOU get to pay all of their legal costs if THEY sue YOU.... and the unbelievable thing is that not one person
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Another clear sign of trouble: Mantrafied Communication.... hearing the same thing over and over from different people... also know as the Tape Loop Syndrome... where it sounds as if there is a preset number of Tape Loop Responses, and what initially sounds like a normal converstion takes on a strangely patterned quality... at the more "advanced levels" of these organizations they b
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Quotepragmatist Again, sorry if this discussion seems circular in nature... just wanted to get that off my chest :). You always have the most insightful comments anyhow. I hate one liners that I see quite often from others. There's a potentially long circuitous answer lurking in here... to keep it simple for the moment... what did you think of the instrumentalist/terminalist distinction
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Quotemidonov123 If you look at the history of the Physics of Consciousness Research Group (PCRG) that was funded by Werner Erhard in 1975, this is exactly what you will find. Why is this of interests to New Age gurus like Werner Erhard? It's because if you "create your own reality", you are fully responsible (thus blamed) for everything good or bad that happens to your life (being
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

I wouldn't lump LGATs and NLP together... as they are distinct creatures... this new phenomenon of coaching appears to be formulated out of a mishmash of everything out there, from Landmark to NLP to organization theory... there are absolutley no stable critreria for what a coach is, how one learns to be a coach, who you turn to if a coach goes bad.... to this day I have no idea what a lif
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Quotepragmatist Alrite, alrite... I know I shouldn't blast them for making money, but I just can't resist. Maybe I envy them? nutrino, feel like starting an LGAT? I swear, man, I know enough drugstore psychology, to start one... It could be good, ya know? Why do I find this topic/forum inexhaustible? There are deep satisfactions of doing a job well and truly thought through. You can
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

In a nut... to be really qualified to work with someone's mind in a constructive way... this isn't a skill set you learn in three or four "intensive" five day seminars... NLP has, most lamentably, devolved into something of a "certificate mill" racket... with a miniscule amount of real formal testing, supervision, or in depth knowledge of the subjects they so love
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Look... you walked into the wrong neighborhood wearing the wrong colors... if this were Compton, it would be like walking into Crip territory wearing Blood colors... same basic human dynamic... I once had some times with the Scientologists at one of their centers and when I mentioned Werner Erhard and est they just freaked out... another time I was at a live Tony Robbins event, and Tony has a p
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Unfortunately, your experience is representative of a general social trend in the United States.... toward a paranoid, arrogant, narrow minded, authoritarian style.... I see this in greater and lesser degrees everywhere... some of this is a response to 9/11 and an obsession with an external enemy... never mind the old adage from the cartoon... "we have met the enemy and he is us !" ....
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

apropos of nothing.... where are these guys, anyway ? 6000 views means the world out there is looking in on the conversation.... they know that there is a conversation.... the creeps at headquarters know there is a conversation... and, like, soooo... if the trainer body produces such profound thinkers an all, like they say they do.... with their toolbox of groovalicious distinctions and mighty i
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Whacking off in the bushes, no doubt... we're almost up to 6000 views of this thread... and the Enlightenment Gestapo hasn't shut it down yet... that's saying something... attention is being paid...
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Quotepragmatist Anyway... nutrino, hope you're reading this - I just read your reply. Thank you for taking time out. People, it is my opinion, have an innate desire to believe. Try raising children without beliefs, if you don't believe me on this one :). Once you've been "programmed" since childhood to adopt beliefs on an ongoing basis - and achieve, as you said, some
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Elements of this ring true in my own experience... have to admit that I'm at times a little shocked by the behavior of my fellow NLP/Ericksonian course leaders... and the suspicious "background reasoning" in this process is similar, though not identical... it would seem that BECAUSE I have a long experience in this area, have known or worked with or studied with most of the signifi
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

What this means is that real quantum physics and new age "quantum" philosophies have a miniscule amount of common ground. Real quantum physics is extremely math heavy.... New Age quantum crapola has no math.... nothing about it can be proved because nothing about it can be disproved... it is often used as an excuse for having no decent logic... the reasoning going like "if thing
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Wooooooweeee.... which of these "physics" based teachings could identify.... ohhhhh... Erwin Schrodinger.... who has said, relatively recently: "Let me say at the outset, that in this discourse, I am opposing not a few special statements of quantum mechanics held today (1950s), I am opposing as it were the whole of it, I am opposing its basic views that have been shaped 25 ye
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

The New York Times has reported an event without precedent in the publishing industry.... what are the implications for... ummmm. a certain UFO relgion and their "factual" accounts ? : "James Frey, the author who admitted making up portions of his best-selling memoir, “A Million Little Pieces,” and his publisher, Random House, have agreed in principle on a settlement with reader
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

QuoteelenaI've had a hard time wrapping my mind around this, and after reading it a few times, it sounds almost as though you suggest a type of social Darwinism in which only those with enough of whateve it takes to get the "survival technology" will live with some autonomy and the rest are doomed to various forms of slavery. I guess one could make the argument we already have thi
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

This is an excerpt from an article that appeared in The new York Times... Worthy of our concern is how this conduct was perceived by those engaging in it as "fair play" ... does cause one to specualte on how far gone we are down this road: "SAN FRANCISCO, Sept. 5 — Hewlett-Packard’s chairwoman ordered monitoring of its directors’ phones to determine the source of news leaks,
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Insulting is the understatement of the century. My significant other is Native American and she loathes these falsifications of native culture with a passion. These shebangs are closer to haloween costume parties than anything vaguely resembling cultural awareness...
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Carlin is an excellent performer.... I'm somewhat in aggreement with his point of view, somewhat not... that said, here's speaking within the context of performance where we expect oversimplification for dramatic (or comic) effect... his outrage is genuine however... and he's accurate when he asserts that we only want citizens who can think up to a point, but cannot think well beyo
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

BWAHAHAHAHA..... this is just toooo good.... these morons don't grasp the context of blowback .... you should see how much widespread derision this article has generated already... and how much additional attention where I suspect they least want it: merely one of probably thousands of comments already out there: from TechDirt "It's not totally clear what's going on
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

The message would appear to be that even being associated with TC is a bad idea.... Sumner may be sending a warning shot over the bow that Scientology better keep its fingers out of the production process...
Forum: Celebrities associated with "cult-like" groups

Tom Cruise now even more sacked... today's news: "Although the company said today that Mr. Freston had resigned, Mr. Redstone, the 84-year-old controlling shareholder of Viacom, has been telling associates in Hollywood that he felt Mr. Freston was not a strong enough leader for the company, according to several people who have talked to Mr. Redstone but spoke on the condition of anon
Forum: Celebrities associated with "cult-like" groups

All of this badinage might be a sideshow and it might not. My central idea is that what began some 40 or 50 years ago as an unstable farrago of sociology, psychotherapy, "shamanism", psychedelia, science fiction, adolescent quests for enlightenment, alternative lifestyle exploration, disorientation.... and whatever else... and has been simmering on the back burner of american consciousn
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

What I understand all to clearly is that it is possible to label, or categorize certain discussions as off limits because they are "political"... as if that indicates a sacroscant status... ... and I have a firm counterpoint to this assertion... that the "political" isn't such an airtight category, that a multitude of "non-political" issues do impinge on this
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Quoteelena Are you disputing the facts or assertions of the article? Ellen "Markus" was getting his jollies. Hell be back as somebody else with some other earth shattering issue to get bug eyed about. Mercury goes retrograde and things start stirring.... my inner child wants to cry...
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

QuoteMarkusWelchI'm not going to debate politics with you here. That is and has been my point Nutrino. You don't appear to be too sharp about taking your own advice. Debating politics is exactly what you have engaged. Do whatever turns you on. I raised the national leadership issue because it is my considered opinion that cult or cult formed dynamics have had a meaningful impac
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

QuoteMarkusWelch Your characterizations of power-hungry etc is not in good faith, IMO. Meaning that I don't mean what I say ? Meaning that I don't have a thought through perspective ? Meaning you are in the sole possession of the truth ? I should kowtow to you and your opinions ? QuoteMarkusWelch Do dictatorships have a moral right to exist? There's your bonus question.
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"