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jkms89
thanks for the additional info.

You're welcome. Hope it helps!

-lightwolf

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nutrino
There is a new industry in business: the how to get girls seminar or book or DVD or .... personal coaching.... they have borrowed a few ideas from NLP as a sales hook.... it's their way of adding a selling point to the package... when you meet these gentlemen in person you'll find that they're emotionally at the level of teenage boys who have found a neato way to make a little extra spending money.

whats your opinion on Personal Coaching?
for me it seems "evolution" of LGAT and NLP
many "coaches" in my area, are ex-landmarkers (some are forum leaders)
assuming you agree, is someone trying to raise the public awareness for this?

bond_orange

In a nut... to be really qualified to work with someone's mind in a constructive way... this isn't a skill set you learn in three or four "intensive" five day seminars... [b:02d54614a7] NLP has, most lamentably, devolved into something of a "certificate mill" racket... [/b:02d54614a7] with a miniscule amount of real formal testing, supervision, or in depth knowledge of the subjects they so love to pontificate about.... usually at great tedious boring length... but, no problemo, [i:02d54614a7] you will get your pretty certificate, suitable for framing...[/i:02d54614a7] and then you can gradutate to the level of.... cough... [b:02d54614a7] Master Practitioner [/b:02d54614a7] with about seven (count em, 1,2,3,4,5,6,7..) more days of training.... ummmmmmm, does this sound hardly credible from a knowledge acquisition standpoint ? [b:02d54614a7] Would you see a lawyer with 14 days of education, have your house built by an architect, or you gall bladder removed by a "master' with a full 21 days of.... hoccck... "coaching".... the bloody eff you would. [/b:02d54614a7]

You have to keep in mind that NLP is closely entertwined with Ericksonian psychology... and the Ericksonians are very professional, and very rigorous... you cannot even apply for formal Ericksonian training without an advanced degree in psychology or social work and be in that field professionally... and if you go to Amazon and search the body of literature related to Milton H. Erickson M.D., PhD (no bullshit mail order doctorate here) or Stephen Gilligan PhD (in psychology, from Stanford University), or Jay Haley or Ernest Rossi who have compiled massive amounts of Ericksonian materials... it will be more than obvious that there is a deep, fully transparent, trackable knowledge base of profound insight and effectiveness... that takes years to learn and apply correctly....

NLP has taken it upon itself to ride on Erickson's coattails, offering.... gaggg... "hypnosis certifications" in 5 days, and "advanced certifications" in another five...... how can that square up....? Guys with psych degrees are looking at a ten year mastery process if you go the formal Ericksonian route, and the NLP d-bags are claiming they can "install" (???) this understanding in ten to fourteen days ????? Which do you think is the realistic approach ?

with the "blossom" of personal coaches, this LGAT/NLP is now even more wide spread,
do you know of website/organizations that are trying to bring that to the public awareness? (other then rickross).

I'm sure this question was raised before. how do you fight back the LGAT/coaching issue? and do it a public, not per cas basis?

I wouldn't lump LGATs and NLP together... as they are distinct creatures... this new phenomenon of [b:70c5b101dc] coaching [/b:70c5b101dc] appears to be formulated out of a mishmash of everything out there, from Landmark to NLP to organization theory... there are absolutley no stable critreria for what a coach is, how one learns to be a coach, who you turn to if a coach goes bad.... to this day I have no idea what a life coach does with a client on a minute by minute basis... however... the NLP community appear to have discovered that there is a lucrative "synergy"... the left hand washes the right hand sort of synergy.... wherein the NLP trainers will certify, [i:70c5b101dc] insofar as their certifications mean a friggin' thing [/i:70c5b101dc] , certain levels of ability which the Coach can then display as evidence of their competence.... [b:70c5b101dc] now, if you look under the hood at what actually goes on in these "certification trainings" you might have second thoughts about being impressed by the certificate.... [/b:70c5b101dc] most of it is pretty bad... not downright horrible, a few hours of interesting instruction.... but a great deal of time wasting filler, very little stimulating interactiuon between students and teachers, basic precepts are tossed out then never developed or elaborated on to an informative degree, few, if any real demand or real challenges presented to the students.... so generally gravitating to a "C" level perfromance all around... but that's where the "relationship of convenience" factor comes in.... we'll charge you some decent money, you'll sit there and drink coffeee and nod your head and do some lame exercises for five days, and it you don't completely mess up, you'll get a Certificate ! Then you can drum up some coaching clients because you are Certified !

NLP seems to be going the same way many of these "social industries" are.... more and more strangely written, dense contracts you must sign just to attend.... one I recently saw had a [b:f821e57214] non-disclosure clause [/b:f821e57214] buried within it.... oh , and yeah an [b:f821e57214] indemnification clause [/b:f821e57214] meaning YOU get to pay all of their legal costs if THEY sue YOU.... and the unbelievable thing is that [b:f821e57214] not one person in the entire group actually read a three page contract they were signing..... they we told, or chose to believe, thet this was a "mere formality to be gotten out of the way" so they could hurry to their seats....[/b:f821e57214] Do these innocent New Age Idiots have any idea what they are agreeing to ? NLP has often claimed for itself to be "cutting edge technology"... what it now appears to be is on the cutting edge of excessive contractual language.... What is going on here ? Who is driving the bus, as Richard Bandler was once fond of asking... yeah... we'd love to know... [i:f821e57214] who, or what IS driving this bus? [/i:f821e57214] What is motivating this trend to contractualizing everything ? Why are these documents either so poorly written, or so freaking oppressive, or just so over the top ? Is this a general trend in all of LGAT land, where you sign away every right you might have and put yourself in a very precarious legal position in case you DO have grounds to litigate ?
What is even more horrifying is [b:f821e57214] how egregiously this demonstates the lack of critical thinking [/b:f821e57214], worse I think, a [i:f821e57214] fundamentally conformist, (or was that a conformingly fundamentalist ) lack of real curiosity [/i:f821e57214] , the lack of the willingness to stop and analyse, the refusal to confront what is questionable, the unthinking acceptance of whatever is placed under one's nose..... and yet these trainings are supposed to produce "winners" and "empowered people" or whatever .... and on a behavioral level they function no better than [b:f821e57214] docile cows being led by the nose ? [/b:f821e57214] Cripes........ :roll:

Oh, by the by... anyone who wants to visit [b:f821e57214] off limits territory with regard to the NLP myth [/b:f821e57214] ought to read this quite illuminating article about the founding of NLP and the company it has kept in bygone days...

Funny thing... or not so funny thing... the current crop of NLPsters seem to have developed an agressive case of collective amnesia for this phase in the history of NLP... like they are trying to [b:f821e57214] hypnotically evaporate it into nothingness [/b:f821e57214] or some such mental pretzling.... freak ass trance behavior... like they hear you... then drop into a "negative hallucination" trance and erase it real lickety split fast... then return to the conversation like nothing was said....

read away, matey, and reach yer own conclusions:

[www.geocities.com]

Haaa....... it appears that there is not inconsiderable dissent from the [b:cc9b581563] "mutual interest in perpetuating grand illusions" NLP monolith...[/b:cc9b581563] comes in the form of one Shlomo Vaknin who publishes a regular e-zine devoted to goading the bloated NLP beast out of perpetual dreams and semi-comatose bloviating....

Shlomo's website is:

[www.nlpweekly.com]

and his broad opinion about NLP today, much similar to mine is:

"Question #2: In What Level Of NLP Are You?
I’m beyond any level. :-)

I did go through the certification programs, but being a tough student (I kept asking some very challenging questions, some were left without a proper answer) - [b:cc9b581563] I have decided long time ago to archive the certificates I received, mainly because these papers don’t have any meaning in the real world. [/b:cc9b581563]

So for now, all of my NLP and Hypnotherapy certificates are being kept in my cousin’s garage in Los Angeles,[b:cc9b581563] in a big brown box with the sticker “Flammable”. [/b:cc9b581563]

Maybe our good Erhardian friends could use that old fightin' spirit....

oh boy...[b:692e70e7b5] here come the sociopaths [/b:692e70e7b5] ... another thoroughly disgusted voice from within the NLP community... but HEY! Give them credit... compared to the other mindwarps around, there is active protest... the fact that they have the independence of mind TO protest is saying something....

and soooooo:

" The so called "Governing Bodies" in the NLP community have no real power, no enforcement and weak assessment. Frankly, you can buy your way up the NLP ladder and become a Trainer even if you've never seen a real live client in your life. So when a student asks them "How have you used this with real clients?", how can they answer honestly? And do you really want to be one of their first ever students?

Here's the truth - I know of one NLP Trainer who, despite allegations against him for child abuse, continues to work exclusively with children. Unbelievable! Ironically, the same individual has set up a fictitious "Institute for NLP Ethics"!!! Hmmm...

Several female clients have complained to me [privately of course] about seduction and hypnosis techniques being used inappropriately, but they're all too scared to challenge the male NLP Trainer doing it. Can you imagine?

I know of 3 so called "Life Coaches" whose experience consists of a 3 day training course and 12 written homework assignments! But will it tell you that on their brochures and websites? I doubt it..."

[b:692e70e7b5] howwwww..... unsurprising.... all of this is.... [/b:692e70e7b5]