In LGATs, oftentimes some sort of presentation on Quantum Physics is used. The teachings and conclusions presented are often weak at best.

Thanks to Anon 0820, I found this excellent presentation by Asoka Selvarajah. It can either be read or downloaded as an audio file at [www.aksworld.com]

He also discusses how the self-help industry is presented and, at times, misused.

It is called "A Self Help Reality Check" and well worth a listen or read.

Any time I hear it mentioned outside of the domain of physics or any related discipline such as lasers or radiation, I smell a rat.

Ive seen advertisements for quantum this, quantum that on fliers for shamanic stuff and even a Sufi conference.

Most people dont know much about physics, and 'quantum' is now a word that has a vast, gooey mystique about it. If you utter the word 'quantum' and do it with a air of confidence and authority, folks will automatically be impressed.

Drugs and alcohol and nitrous oxide are not the only intoxicants. Many of us do not understand that language can be used as an intoxicant. Certain words such as 'quantum' or 'meme' or 'evolution' have become so charged
with bogus spiritual mystique that in the wrong hands they become intoxicants.

A pal of mine was greatly harmed by a charismatic spiritual hustler who loved to use 'quantum' to make his nonsense seem plausible.

I told her the guy just wanted to throw her off balance. If she'd been a Ph.D physicist, he would not have used the word 'quantum' because he'd have known it would not impress her. He have found some other subject that was unfamiliar and used concepts from that to throw her off balance.

Einstein and Heisenberg would both sit down and weep if they could see what purposes their work is being put to.

How ironic that on the same page as the article, the author is selling his own secrets in his books which are "Packed with strategies and secrets for you to achieve spiritual & material abundance, happiness, and manifest your dreams! spiritual".

That is also a ploy of the very people Asoka Selvarajah warns us about. Quite often these gurus and self-appointed experts call everyone else snake oil salesmen and charlatans.

The article was okay, but not very substantial. The problem with the really good quacks is that they're good at what they do. My doctor threw in quantum physics stuff every now and then when he was trying to explain things to me and it seemed to be sound, valid science. Some are sloppy sociopaths and easy to weed out, but many are not, and the article does not give enough information for the person who is just starting to get duped to get out.

I keep reading the following trying to understand what they are "meaning", and I am not. Does anyone here understand physics? I have searched and searched university sites and googled trying to understand their statement of:

"We now know scientifically that all matter is light energy and that the differences in the matter we experience are the result of light energy vibrating at different frequencies"

And cannot find where Physics relate to the above. Maybe I am just not finding it? I am aware of the idea that if we could just "vibrate" at a different frequency that we could say "walk through walls", it that what the above statement is referring to?

Any ideas/comments in regards to the following would be appreciated. As when I read this, no matter how many times, part way through I "space out" and it ends up just being some "mantra" that has no meaning to me. I feel I am missing something from the following that I am "supposed" to "understand". Or not.

CONFUSED :roll:

Taken from NWTA manual: Mankind Project
New Warrior Context

Process:

In some centers the presenters memorize and recite the "New Warrior Context". To memorize this piece usually requires actually understanding it, which is what we want because this means "embodying" it. It certainly may be read slowly with appropriate pauses if presenter truly understands it. A conversation with a leader or senior staffman may prove useful in enhancing understanding.

Presentation: It is essential that you understand the metaphysical archetypal, healing, mission content and the flow of the material. Offer an explanation, with intonation and pauses appropriate to sharing information. Men need the information, not theater. We empower here with the information. We want the men to understand it, as best they can, each time they hear it.

"Context" means a frame within which to view something.

Here we present the New Warrior Initiation Adventure in the context of how reality works. Men get a quick, relatively neutral, scientific look at how they create their own reality. And perhaps even more empowering we offer a doorway into the archetypal power of healthy, universal warrior energy. From there they can easily see this power grounded in healing and a mission of service. Overall men feel invited to explore the adventure of higher consciousness, together with this body of men.

Repetition: The New Warrior context introduces the initiates to what we do and the essential principles of our work. As a visionary organization these ideas may likely be ahead of our their time and challenging to understand. Therefore we present this exact context three times during the weekend. This maximizes the possibility of men truly understanding it, which empowers them by grounding the cognitive with the experimental learning.

New Warrior Context:

Reality starts with what we know. In our reality what we know is physical matter. In the reality of our physical world, physical matter exists. Physics is the study of physical matter.

Recently, physicists have discovered scientifically what some ancient philosophical systems and religions have claimed for millennia. Namely that all matter is the same stuff! We now know scientifically that all matter is light energy and that the differences in the matter we experience are the result of light energy vibrating at different frequencies: Dense matter like rocks, steel or earth = Slow vibrations; Faster vibrations = air, water and flesh.

Physics is the study of physical matter. Metaphysics is the study of all the matter of the universe: the big picture. Imagine all that matter and all of it the same stuff. I'm that same stuff.

And with the matter that is my brain, I seem to have the ability to hold and manipulate that stuff, that light, the matter of the universe, in such a way as to mold and create my perception or the universe. Because my reality, my universe, is to me as I see and feel it to be. My reality is as I imagine it to be. My universe and I are utterly interrelated. There is nothing that can separate me from the universe except me.

My thought and my belief in my thought create my reality, my universe.

As the creator of my own unique reality, I am essentially alone in the universe as I know it. The paradox is that I am a social animal, and as a social animal I cannot exist separate from you. Therefore, we must agree on at least some of our shared universe, and because this is so, we are co-creators of our shared reality, our culture.

Ultimately, however, who I am with you is my choice, a decision I make. For thousands of years, we men have been warriors. As warriors it was our role to protect women and our community. Unfortunately as technology and the ego self developed, warriors became soldiers destroying and dominating in the service of a tyrant king. The word "warrior" came to represent those who needed to dominate and destroy to feel superior.

Today our planet cannot tolerate the soldiers of fortune, raping her to make themselves feel powerful and important. The old warrior/soldier is obsolete. The transformation from the old to the new has begun.

The new warrior has a new mission. Today, right here, we are the co-creators of new way of being for men. Deep in our bones and balls we are still warriors. It's in our genes passed down from father to son..from father to son.

However, with our developed brains, we can make our mission new! There are men we know as models of the New Warrior. Men like: Martin Luther King, Mahatma Gandhi, Ralph Nader, Nelson Mandela. Perhaps there's a man in your community who lives a life of extraordinary courage and vision.

A vision is always ahead of its time and usually unpopular, because mankind resists and fears change. That fear can make it dangerous to be a visionary. The New Warrior lives on the cutting edge facing that fear, in order to manifest his vision into our universe.

Who I am in relation to you is my decision. If my personal mission transcends the old dominating way of being, it will, by nature, become a mission of service. How I choose to serve is my personal mission. And that mission determines who I am in relation to you and the other creatures with whom I share this reality, this planet, this universe.

Transformation - moving from one way of being to another, often means facing the shadows of the past. The hurt and pain of the past can be healed. That healing comes from the heart, from emotionally authentic experiences of releasing judgements and forgiving.

With the past healed, and my mission in focus, I know I can relate to you with unconditional love. The child I was, believed that the world could be that way. The man that I am, knows that the creation of that reality begins with me, and it grows with each one of you who will co-create that vision with me.

When enough of us believe in the vision and live our lives through our personal mission, we will create unconditional love as the reality of our universe.

Wooooooweeee.... which of these "physics" based teachings could identify.... ohhhhh... Erwin Schrodinger....

who has said, relatively recently:

"Let me say at the outset, that in this discourse, I am opposing not a few special statements of quantum mechanics held today (1950s), I am opposing as it were the whole of it, I am opposing its basic views that have been shaped 25 years ago, when Max Born put forward his probability interpretation, which was accepted by almost everybody.
(Schrödinger Erwin, The Interpretation of Quantum Mechanics. Ox Bow Press, Woodbridge, CN, 1995).

I don't like it, and I'm sorry I ever had anything to do with it.
(Erwin Schrodinger talking about Born's Probability Wave Interpretation of Quantum Mechanics.)"

Ohhh my.....my....my....

Do these poobahs say things like... does Werner Von Est tawk like.... ??? Nein ? :

"The Schrodinger equation plays the role of Newton's laws and conservation of energy in classical mechanics - i.e., it predicts the future behavior of a dynamic system. It is a wave equation in terms of the wavefunction which predicts analytically and precisely the probability of events or outcome. The detailed outcome is not strictly determined, but given a large number of events, the Schrodinger equation will predict the distribution of results.

The kinetic and potential energies are transformed into the Hamiltonian which acts upon the wavefunction to generate the evolution of the wavefunction in time and space. The Schrodinger equation gives the quantized energies of the system and gives the form of the wavefunction so that other properties may be calculated. "

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nutrino
Wooooooweeee.... which of these "physics" based teachings could identify.... ohhhhh... Erwin Schrodinger....

who has said, relatively recently:

"Let me say at the outset, that in this discourse, I am opposing not a few special statements of quantum mechanics held today (1950s), I am opposing as it were the whole of it, I am opposing its basic views that have been shaped 25 years ago, when Max Born put forward his probability interpretation, which was accepted by almost everybody.
(Schrödinger Erwin, The Interpretation of Quantum Mechanics. Ox Bow Press, Woodbridge, CN, 1995).

I don't like it, and I'm sorry I ever had anything to do with it.
(Erwin Schrodinger talking about Born's Probability Wave Interpretation of Quantum Mechanics.)"

Ohhh my.....my....my....

Do these poobahs say things like... does Werner Von Est tawk like.... ??? Nein ? :

"The Schrodinger equation plays the role of Newton's laws and conservation of energy in classical mechanics - i.e., it predicts the future behavior of a dynamic system. It is a wave equation in terms of the wavefunction which predicts analytically and precisely the probability of events or outcome. The detailed outcome is not strictly determined, but given a large number of events, the Schrodinger equation will predict the distribution of results.

The kinetic and potential energies are transformed into the Hamiltonian which acts upon the wavefunction to generate the evolution of the wavefunction in time and space. The Schrodinger equation gives the quantized energies of the system and gives the form of the wavefunction so that other properties may be calculated. "

oooookkkkkaaaayyyy! I still don't get it. Maybe......We are not really supposed to? I will have to do some more studying on this to try and figure out what MKP is trying to "SAY" if anything really. Sounds like a bunch of

blah blah blah how reality works blah blah blah Men get a quick, relatively neutral, scientific look at how they create their own reality. Blah blah blah BLAH!

You get it. Right? Geeze, if I had to listen to someone reading this to me I would be more than just in an alterted state of being. I would be zzzzzzzzzzzzzz hmm, whatd you say?

Oh, you were trying to make me believe you have all the answers?? blah blah blah zzzzzzzzzzz
:roll:
:roll:

What this means is that real quantum physics and new age "quantum" philosophies have a miniscule amount of common ground. Real quantum physics is extremely math heavy.... New Age quantum crapola has no math.... [b:fa4ae146f8] nothing about it can be proved because nothing about it can be disproved...[/b:fa4ae146f8] it is often used as an excuse for having no decent logic... the reasoning going like [b:fa4ae146f8] "if things have seemingly illogical behavior at really small scales, that means that there is such a thing as "quantum logic" where the normal rules of clear thinking are suspended" [/b:fa4ae146f8] ... and if you think thats a load of bullshit, they will tell you that you have a [b:fa4ae146f8] quantum racket [/b:fa4ae146f8] which is getting in the way of [b:fa4ae146f8] "quantumly getting the quantum IT " [/b:fa4ae146f8] which should never be confused with the old, mechanical, newtonian IT .... and never, never, never with the aristotelian medieval IT, and God forbid, the Platonic IT ... which, horror of horrors, was derived from the Egyptian IT...... and once we've dumped the quantum IT.... well.... on to the string theory IT.... or something...

Quote
nutrino
What this means is that real quantum physics and new age "quantum" philosophies have a miniscule amount of common ground. Real quantum physics is extremely math heavy.... New Age quantum crapola has no math.... [b:d92317ae19] nothing about it can be proved because nothing about it can be disproved...[/b:d92317ae19] it is often used as an excuse for having no decent logic... the reasoning going like [b:d92317ae19] "if things have seemingly illogical behavior at really small scales, that means that there is such a thing as "quantum logic" where the normal rules of clear thinking are suspended" [/b:d92317ae19] ... and if you think thats a load of bullshit, they will tell you that you have a [b:d92317ae19] quantum racket [/b:d92317ae19] which is getting in the way of [b:d92317ae19] "quantumly getting the quantum IT " [/b:d92317ae19] which should never be confused with the old, mechanical, newtonian IT .... and never, never, never with the aristotelian medieval IT, and God forbid, the Platonic IT ... which, horror of horrors, was derived from the Egyptian IT...... and once we've dumped the quantum IT.... well.... on to the string theory IT.... or something...

Thank you, kind of what I was thinking, but I wanted someone else to read this and say what they were thinking about IT. And, since I know next to nothing about physics, I was not willing to make an opinion without thought and input.

Thanks

I can tell you a little bit about the Shrodinger cat to illustrate QM. To support my view, let me only mention that I am a Ph.D. in physics (not kidding).

So imagine a that a cat ...

(yes!, a live cat "animal") is put inside a box together with a mechanism that includes a radioactive atom and a poisonous vial that will kill the cat if broken. The vial will be broken depending if the radioactive atom will decay (disintegrate) spontaneously or not after a certain time.

According to Quantum Mechanics (QM), the atom has a "probability" of one-half to decay after one half-life (suppose 1 hour). Since QM is a complete theory, it describes nature accurately and completely (this is fundamental!). So, what it means is after one hour, the atom is in a "mixture of states", meaning it is both "decayed" AND "not-decayed" at the same time (this is one of the strange feature of QM and reality)!

If the system is left unaltered and "unobserved", the extension of the QM description of reality from the microscopic atom to the macroscopic cat means that the complete system (atom-vial-cat) is in a mixture of both states where the cat is both dead AND alive (atom decayed+vial broken = dead cat; atom not decayed+vial intact = cat alive). However, it is not clear where the QM description of reality breaks down between the single atom (microscopic) and the 10^26 atoms that constitute the cat (macroscopic world). An experiment at NIST has now demonstrated the QM description extends to at least 6 atoms (they used berylium atoms in a mixed state), 25 orders of magnitude short of explaining the cat's fate!

This is where New Agers abandon science altogether to adopt a philosophy based on pure speculations. New Agers will claim that, yes indeed, the cat is both "dead AND alive" (some will say in parallel universes). This is the "world of infinite possibilities" as it is claimed by many New Agers ... (exactly what the movie "What the Bleep ..." is all about). The speculation continues and the "creation of reality" comes into play when a "conscious observer" looks inside the box to see what happened to the cat. As soon as the observer "looks" inside the box, the dual "dead AND alive" cat state collapse to only one of the two "possibilities". This is described as the "collapse of the wave function" in QM. It is also what is meant by the "creation of reality" by an act of "consciousness". The movie "What the bleep.." talks about "a world where reality is created by every thought".

According to this new set of "beliefs" (remember this is not science), the collapse takes place inside the "brain" of the observer and thus, the observer "creates" and "chooses" the cat to be "dead OR alive".

This is the QM origins of "creation of reality" by an act of "consciousness". And this is what I mean when I say that this concept is an over exaggeration and extrapolation (by 25 order of magnitudes) of the fundamental concepts of QM. It's not science, only "beliefs". And this gives rise to all sorts of speculations, like the "creation of your own cancer" for instance. New Age gurus will instill the beliefs that "you create you're own reality" this way. Some will even claim that by "training" your consciousness (like with TM), you can gain "control" over matter and "choose" whetever reality is best for you. Gurus will claim that you can achieve "higher levels of consciousness" and thus be "rich" and "healthy" or be whaterver you "choose". For example, Deepak Chopra, a promoter of Quantum Healing claims in one of his best selling book that "by an act of consciousness, you can tell your body not to age". So, why is he growing old??? maybe he "chooses" to (LOL)!


If you look at the history of the Physics of Consciousness Research Group (PCRG) that was funded by Werner Erhard in 1975, this is exactly what you will find. Why is this of interests to New Age gurus like Werner Erhard? It's because if you "create your own reality", you are fully responsible (thus blamed) for everything good or bad that happens to your life (being sick, healthy, or swept away by a Tsunami !!!). This way, the guru is always right and you're always wrong (when convenient for the guru).

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ginah

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nutrino
What this means is that real quantum physics and new age "quantum" philosophies have a miniscule amount of common ground. Real quantum physics is extremely math heavy.... New Age quantum crapola has no math.... [b:540648d8ee] nothing about it can be proved because nothing about it can be disproved...[/b:540648d8ee] it is often used as an excuse for having no decent logic... the reasoning going like [b:540648d8ee] "if things have seemingly illogical behavior at really small scales, that means that there is such a thing as "quantum logic" where the normal rules of clear thinking are suspended" [/b:540648d8ee] ... and if you think thats a load of bullshit, they will tell you that you have a [b:540648d8ee] quantum racket [/b:540648d8ee] which is getting in the way of [b:540648d8ee] "quantumly getting the quantum IT " [/b:540648d8ee] which should never be confused with the old, mechanical, newtonian IT .... and never, never, never with the aristotelian medieval IT, and God forbid, the Platonic IT ... which, horror of horrors, was derived from the Egyptian IT...... and once we've dumped the quantum IT.... well.... on to the string theory IT.... or something...

Thank you, kind of what I was thinking, but I wanted someone else to read this and say what they were thinking about IT. And, since I know next to nothing about physics, I was not willing to make an opinion without thought and input.

Thanks

Quote
midonov123
If you look at the history of the Physics of Consciousness Research Group (PCRG) that was funded by Werner Erhard in 1975, this is exactly what you will find. Why is this of interests to New Age gurus like Werner Erhard? It's because if you "create your own reality", you are fully responsible (thus blamed) for everything good or bad that happens to your life (being sick, healthy, or swept away by a Tsunami !!!). This way, the guru is always right and you're always wrong (when convenient for the guru).

Erhard/Rosenberg was never about physics... he was about [b:546787eddb] occultism [/b:546787eddb] , as was his "source" , L. Ron Hubbard ... he was on the lookout for a credible way to package his occultist beliefs, which centered around the idea (more accurately, the inversion of common sense) that [b:546787eddb] "mind generates reality" [/b:546787eddb] instead of the mundane position that "mind maps and adapts to reality" ... QM became a convenient fiction for Erhard/Rosenberg ... because it could be cleverly restated in such a way as to imply that physical reality is directly responsive to mental processes...

And herein lies a potentially toxic confusion... because external reality IS [b:546787eddb] indirectly [/b:546787eddb] responsive to mental activity... we design a building, we obtain funding for the building, we build the building... if we do that right we see that there is a close interaction between rational thinking and external action that requires specific knowledge and proper sequencing... we know that just seeing a beautiful building in the minds eye does not get a building constructed... one has to [b:546787eddb] apply the mind in specific ways through time [/b:546787eddb].. and some ways work better than other ways...

Erhardism suggests something weird and unrealistic.... something like "pure intending" or "pure envisioning" has the power to "manifest" things or events in the physical plane.... which appears to discount the need for carefully established structure and sequence...

It is further irresponsible, in my listening, because it implicitly suggests that those who aren't the bit time winners are in their life places because of their "failures of intention" ... not that they may have needed specific family dynamics, or educational opportunities, or access to professional services.... in other words it justifies success and condemns failure as a [b:546787eddb] manifestation phenomenon [/b:546787eddb] while minimizing the significance of learning, social conncections, social skills, cultural frames, etc.... then Erhardism goes one step further into the realy of the [b:546787eddb] palpably idiotic [/b:546787eddb] where all that "sutff' is nothing more than a meaningless story, that it is all a function of your willing in the here and now... when the exact opposite is usually the truth... that success and failure is a result of slow accretions of investment in high quality knowledge, establishing trustworthy social networks, carefully building skill sets and competence...

But to buy into the Erhardian perspective, all of those structural advantages and disadvantges are trivialized in favor of the Occultist idea that one "wills from the present".... and what this has to do with Quantum Mechanics is totally lost on me.