QuoteFather MaximiadisCHRIS BUTLER - POLYTHEISTIC TEACHINGS BEHIND THE VENEER OF CHRISTIAN MONOTHEISM. Rev. Father Maximiadis Good critique Father. Did you have an opportunity to read the "Jesus and Krishna: The Relationship" tract posted earlier on this forum? I've always wanted to see a good critique from a real Christian theologian on tha
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Quotezeuszor Thanks for your respectful attitude and maturity. ... I have a lot of questions, and doubts, and criticisms about HK and ISKCON, too, and am hardly here as an apologist. I am here as a researcher and have tried to remain objective. Heck, personally, I identify as a Christian and go to a little Episcopal church ... in HK terms would call Jesus my highest siksa-guru. I will
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Zeuszor~ You have stated here that you practice the HK religion and you believe in it, but I don’t. Let’s just agree to disagree on that count and continue to appreciate each other's contributions to this forum. You've brought a lot of great stuff. I’m not against you personally and don’t want to step on your toes, but I will criticize some of the ideas from that group that apply.
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

More guru care rantings: Seems like g0d's best friend couldn't control the state of Arizona's Forest Service from controlled burnings for the safety of the general public and health of the forest! This man is such a control freak! You'd think if he was such a pure mouthpiece of g0d that the g0dhead would at least give him a nice set of lungs!? These pe
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

QuotezeuszorPJ recollects that the GBC (who were convened in India) elected to have CB assassinated for openly opposing the book-distribution, big-time fund raising model edict. When Prabhupada learned of what the GBC had decided with regards to CB, he was horrified, and ordered them not to have CB killed. Thanks z - That is the rumor that all of the Jagad Guru Chris Butler followers were to
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

The operative words are GENTLE (deceptive) and FORCE (coercion). But to look at and listen to Siddha's album you would just see it as new agey music made by this nice spiritual guy. At the time, Jagad Guru Chris Butler Siddhaswarupananda Paramahansa, founder of the Science of Identity cult, did not refer to himself as a pure devotee or messiah of nations - at least publicly yet. He had hi
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

QuotezeuszorI said, a MORE recent picture. As in, more recent than the one from c. 1972. well, without getting a good look at how far the ears stick out, I guess we'll never know for sure, eh. :) But the turtleneck is a big clue...
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

QuotezeuszorQuotedharmabumDaruka's got a hooked nose, and tirtha is blonde. Unshaved head and turtleneck? Just look at the features. That guy is definitely CB. You know, I think you are right! Look at this more recent photo of CB, also a profile shot of him looking to the right. The shape of the nose, the mouth; yes, I must concur. It's CB, all right: That is NOT a recent pic
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Quotedharmabum...and speaking of safe haven, I wish we could all speak freely now but remain cordial with one another. I just don't understand the meanness going on here ... I hope this forum provides a more suitable haven for people who wish to contribute or simply vent out feelings without the fear of being accused as trolls. We all had different experiences; we don't need to agree al
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Quotejust-googlingThere was also another little booklet called "ALOHA SPIRIT - WHY DEAD?" or something like that... This booklet was about how the American lifestyle had ruined the "Aloha Spirit" of the Hawaiian people... how tourism, industry, money etc. from the mainland had ruined the beatiful and simple way of life of the Hawaiian people. (Again, the theme of simple l
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

More from the Ofshe article which is a PS to my last post. See QuoteAttribution theories would predict that if there were differences between the power of reform programs to promote belief change in settings that were relatively more or less blatantly coercive and physically threatening, the effect would be greatest in less-coercive programs. …” Quote”Contemporary thought-reform programs a
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

See More on the Ofshe article relating it to the Butler cult: On controlling communication within a group. People were told to only associate with other devotees and preferably those more “advanced”. You were encouraged not to speak unnecessarily about any topics but g0d and guru. If you had some practical thing to discuss, keep the words to a minimum. Gossip was considered like eati
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Quote rrmoderator Vera City: Please explain exactly how Chris Butler's "very gentle force" is objectively different than the methods of manipulation used in other groups called "cults." Chris Butler's methods of manipulation IMO do not differ from other cults that use these same methods whether they use psychology, hypnosis, or certain forms of meditation. I wasn
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

See The following bit may explain why people stay in cults. Quote”Lengthy participation in an appropriately constructed and managed environment fosters peer relations, an interaction history, and other behavior consistent with a public identity that incorporates approved values and opinions. Promoting the development of an interaction history in which persons engage in cooperative activity
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Thanks z, but pages 42 - 43 are missing. vc
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

QuotezeuszorThe next ten pages of "Jesus and Krsna" will have to wait until my Internet connection improves. I hope that the first ten were helpful. Yes, thanks zeuzor to you and your friend.
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

See Schein’s research: This is how we get coerced without much difficulty through the group. It sounds very academic, but it is exactly what happens in the Jagad Guru Chris Butler cult. Quote”Schein's analysis of the behavioral sequence underlying coercive persuasion separated the process into three subphases: unfreezing, change, refreezing …” “Unfreezing is the first step in elic
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

QuoterrmoderatorVera City: Once a person is out of a controlled environment and can freely access information and associate with anyone, thought reform often breaks down. The key factor most frequently in breaking down a thought reform program, is recognizing how it works, which includes sorting through the cult experience and understanding how it specifically relates to cult dynamics and t
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

See What follows are more highlights of the article: Quote Comments related to Jagad Guru Chris Butler’s group in brackets follow. Others familiar with CB can add a lot more: “ The key factors that distinguish coercive persuasion from other training and socialization schemes are: 1. The reliance on intense interpersonal and psychological attack to destabilize an individual's s
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

QuoterrmoderatorHere is an excellent article that explains "thought reform" or coercive persuasion used by cults in some detail. It was written by Richard Ofshe, a professor of Sociology at Stanford University. By recognizing this process it is possible to sort through what is brought about by coercion and what is not. See It took me awhile to read through this, but was well w
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

QuoterrmoderatorVera City: Please understand that this thread has been literally plagued with trolls. People have come here repeatedly with ulterior motives and hidden agendas, i.e. to somehow minimize the damage done by Chris Butler and/or attempt to shift the blame. The documents you have added are interesting, but there is reason to believe that you may have posted here earlier under
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

More on the formation of the Science of Identity Foundation and continued ranting and use of brain reformatting code words and screaming memes... “Not serious enough”…
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Quotedharmabum This to me is more mature and more scholastic than the eastern philosophies peddled in the West. Like in CB's most of which were applied out of context. But it's not so much about East vs. West, but putting into context the different traditions we as humans developed from different environment. Dharmabum, Here are some good comments from corboy again Rick Ross Scroll
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

corboy: ahem... you were the one that posted the links to the meme theory. I was just following up and checking my understanding. QuotecorboyBut facing how manipulable we actually are, was for me, the most emancipatory thing Ive found. The above statement was where my understanding was going too. Thanks. Wasn't here to start a circuitous debate :)
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Thanks Rick for these articles. I am still carefully reading them. I am particularly impressed with Allen Tate Wood's quotes: QuoterrmoderatorHere is an interesting article that just appeared about cult brainwashing, which was written by a former "Moonie" member of Rev. Moon's Unification Church. it helps to explain how cult members are manipulated and hooked by cults.See
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Apologies to Arjuna das for the mistaken identity!
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Thanks for the link 2times. It's the MEME THING I find so intriguing. The idea is so Phillip K. Dick. :) But it reasons out a lot for me. Not in total agreement with Madame Meme herself, Dr. Blackmore, but it has given me some food for thought.
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

QuotecorboyThe Rick Ross Message Board Golden Oldies Threads Or..various ways human beings are manipulable--especially the ones who consider themselves special, invulnerable and impervious There are a pair of old threads instigated by a discussion of a different group that sparked discussion of what have been called 'memes' and what some term 'viruses of the mind.'
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Quotejust-googling I, for one, can remember when I was a member of this cult there were personality changes that took place within myself... There was a tendency to be "stand-offish" with people who were not cult members ... even rude or obnoxious at times. (A good example of this is the pilot of Chris Butler's private jet aircraft, who stated that he had never met anyone as ru
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

The young man in the turtleneck and the red coat behind ACB looks a lot like young Chris Butler. HYPOTHERMIA MAN This photograph of Chris Butler always reminds me of the scene from the movie The Last Samurai, where the prisoner Capt. Algren is being guarded by an old samurai. The samurai does not speak or answer his captive. So Capt. Algren says in response, “You don’t know what I
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"