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6 years ago
suenam
Quotekaram-mudra"The idea of using pleasure or bliss, unified with emptiness, for example the use of sex in tantras is because of the immediate presence discovered in such a state. Suenam, did you just read about the method to reach that state or are you experienced? Both. The point here is that the teachings are designed to go "beyond mind". So for any student of Nydahl, one
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"
6 years ago
suenam
The idea of using pleasure or bliss, unified with emptiness, for example the use of sex in tantras is because of the immediate presence discovered in such a state. It has become almost a cliché in western thought that the moment of sexual climax is one where the person is not lost in daydreams but rather is fully present. So, Nydahl might use this language, but to place it in context, this is
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"
6 years ago
suenam
In other cases where there are accusations of abuse such as with Kalu and Sogyal (who were both seen as being far more accomplished than Nydahl), the accusations have been about very real and quite mundane uses of coercion, threats, peer pressure, etc. which is exactly the same thing that everyone else on here has written about in regard to Nydhal. So if someone claims that somehow Nydahl got
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"
6 years ago
suenam
Quoterrmoderatorsuenam: The percentage of people suseptable to hypnosis is much higher than 2%. Both Self-hypnosis and hypnosis often play a pivotal role in cults that encourage trance induction through some form of practice or exercise. This would seem to apply to Diamond Way. As pointed out by Yasmin people are very suggestable in this altered state of consciousness and can be mani
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"
6 years ago
suenam
QuoteyasminSueman; I think in your comments that you are underestimating the abilities of hypnosis, or at least of hypnosis coupled with other linguistic etc techniques.If you look at some of the videos of Derren Brown for example, he has no problem convincing people to act against their own self interest, letting him keep their wallet or phone when he asks for it, in one example. Re your statem
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"
6 years ago
suenam
Quotegrainne uailekaram-mudra, there will always be people who won't accept what you are saying and will talk circles around you. i would say a thread of 170 actually does show that there are serious problems with Nydahl's group. This has to be one of the longest threads on RR. But you are wise to say, you may win. Hypnosis is used by many gurus to control their devotees. You actually c
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"
6 years ago
suenam
Quotekaram-mudra"Even then karam-mudra seems rather unclear about what actually happened." Suanam, that it a mere assumption.I have looked at your blogs and on here and it just seems unclear, for example, you say that when you showed no interest Nydahl made some secret hand gesture of control which then lead to you being in a trance like state. You seem to have little interest in
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"
6 years ago
suenam
QuoteMisstykI think TB has all the elements in place for someone to use it as a cult if they want. Some teachers do, some don't. Some teachers promote guru devotion even in the preliminary stages of instruction, and foster "group-think"--Ole being an extreme example, while some teachers are humble and insist that their students not regard them as anything special. And I also thin
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"
6 years ago
suenam
Quotekaram-mudraLike I did with Ole Nydahl, you find my open letter to him here: Here you have included the quotes, (Quote from Wikipedia) „An attempt to perform Six Yogas of Naropa fully or partially, while not being properly instructed or guided and without proper preparation is possible but sometimes it causes serious and potentially irreversible phisical and psychological complications.“
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"
6 years ago
suenam
QuotecorboyBesides, if you, suenam, say you were not involved with Ole N, why stay here on the Ole N thread. And remember Ole N is using inflammatory langauge at the expense of Muslims. Right at a time in history when keeping secular societies in civil peace is becoming so much more difficulty. Last thing needed is Ole fulminating against Muslims.I didn't say I had no experience of
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"
6 years ago
suenam
QuotecorboyIf someone posts material about harm done by Vajrayana gurus, or suggests that Vajrayana itself is not special, but is as capable of social psychological abuses as any other organization or belief system, this is material that has to be argued against. But what I am actually saying is that vajrayana is not special. It is entirely capable of social psychological abuses as any other orga
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"
6 years ago
suenam
Quotecorboy...western evidence based thought...This is entirely my point. After 168 pages we only have one claim about this kind of abuse. Even then karam-mudra seems rather unclear about what actually happened. I hope that the trial produces something concrete for us to go on, but even then, one instance of abuse does not generally constitute empirical evidence on which to condemn thousands. Wh
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"
6 years ago
suenam
Quotegrainne uaileAccusing another of racism is really a desperate measure. She never said that Tibetan Buddhism is the main offender but as far as Buddhism goes, it is. It is the tantric teachings that are found even in Hinduism that is the main offender here. These Tantric teachings are not found in Theravadin or most Zen, sometimes they are found in Chan. Buddha did not teach the tantras!!! As
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"
6 years ago
suenam
QuoteMisstykIt's not racism to say that tantrism was incorporated into Buddhism, and eventually travelled to Tibet. That's a historical fact. Scholars write about this (See "Indian Esoteric Buddhism", by Ronald Davidson, for one. But there are many books available on this.) Davidson discusses how the phenomenon of the personality cult was one of many elements (including sex a
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"
6 years ago
suenam
QuoteMisstykThe fact that TB is, in its highest, most clandestine practices, a sex cult grafted onto Buddhism from Hinduism has everything to do with Nydahl. And the fact that Tantrism has impacted every major Indian religion, and spread throughout East and Southeast Asia would seem to make such generalizations verge on thinly veiled racism. They also seem to detract from us focusing on the ac
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"
6 years ago
suenam
Quotegrainne uaileNot everyone in the world uses mind control, so I don't consider everyone a victim. I only meant that masses of people can be and are controlled by the use of mind control, and these people do not have low self-esteem which was implied that people had if they were a victim of mind control. I am tired of going around and around with you. I think Corboy has done an excellent
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"
6 years ago
suenam
Quotegrainne uaileQuotesuenamwhat motivates you to draw an line around Tibetan Buddhism to single it out from these other forms of mind control which you yourself are referencing? I was merely pointing out that it doesn't take a person with low self-esteem to be hurt in these religions. All you need is a master manipulator, as gurus are. I don't believe that mind control should be use
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"
6 years ago
suenam
QuotecorboyTo keep hoping that a Good Daddy will come in and clean everything up, the Karmapa, for instance. Or the Dalai Lama. But what if there are no Good Daddies anywhere in Vajrayana Buddhism? What then?The obvious answer is to limit the practice to those who are grown-ups and who do not require a "daddy".
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"
6 years ago
suenam
Quotegrainne uaileDo you have any evidence to support these accusations? Comments such as these make it really hard to take you seriously, and this is exactly the sort of hysterical reaction that I was highlighting before. I offered you a lot of evidence. Go back and buy every book I posted here. Go to Phayul.com and get on their forum since they are Tibetans. I even offered other websites.
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"
6 years ago
suenam
Quotegrainne uaile…Children are used in the monasteries in India… …They sleep with whomever they please… …They all do the same… …All people need protecting… …All gurus act like a knight in shinning armour… …everyone is vulnerable…So your claim is that every single monastery in India uses children for sex? Every single Guru is exactly the same, and we are also all the same - it's simpl
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"
6 years ago
suenam
Quotegrainne uaileThe general attacks on Tibetan Buddhism by the Trimondi site I think are questionable. The whole site seems an anti-Buddhist diatribe. I was a Tibetan Buddhist at one time, and when I learned that my own teacher was teaching the highest empowerments, which includes sex I began doing my own research. Because of what I was told about the Trimondis’ I decided to find books on my
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"
6 years ago
suenam
QuoteMisstykIt was no secret that Dudjom Rinpoche, now deceased former head of the Nyingma order, used his wife as his consort, and his is not an exceptional case.You are correct, however it would seem a far leap from someone doing consort practice with their wife to what we are discussing here. This is not what I meant by the idea of a literal interpretation. In the non-Buddhist world people
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"
6 years ago
suenam
As I understand, Nydahl did not appoint himself a Lama until after Kalu Rinpoche's passing in 1989. Although the controversy surrounding them both may lead one to "join the dots", I suspect that the timing of Nydahl self-appointment suggests a different story, which is reinforced by the fact that Kagyu centres founded by Kalu Rinpoche support Ogyen Trinley Dorje's canditature
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"
6 years ago
suenam
QuotecorboyThis thread is about Ole. But Ole got his mystique from a system that, in its ancient and 'authentic' forms, is itself corrupt.I think you will find a tiny percentage of people promoting distorted views in any system, but this doesn't mean the system is itself corrupt. Personally, the one person who Nydahl's behaviour reminds me of is Silvio Berlusconi, and like in
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"
6 years ago
suenam
QuoteMisstyk These are secrets that aren't even in the tantric literature (except possibly in the "twilight language"), so you're helping us understand the nature of Vajrayana Buddhism.As you said yourself, this is "taken from the Shaivite phallus worship", so possibly the reason it isn't in tantric literature is because it isn't part of Vajrayana. Your log
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"
7 years ago
suenam
QuotewarrenzBizarrely, I find myself defending Ole here to some degree. The general attacks on tantric buddhism by the Trimondi site I think are questionable. The whole site seems an anti-Buddhist diatribe.I agree. The kind of hysteria this attempts to whip up only really plays into the hands of those like Nydahl, who use that to denounce their opponents as mentally unstable flakes.
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"
7 years ago
suenam
QuotewarrenzIt is usually a way for groups to inflate the number of teachers they have without giving them any real training. I suspect it also means that such knowledge is derived from authority rather than experience, so makes the "Lama" an indispensable crutch which produces dependent followers.
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"
7 years ago
suenam
QuotewarrenzWhat is cultic about DWB it seems to me is the emphasis on the special, indeed supernatural, status of Ole as a "Dharma protector". I can think of no other Western teacher who makes the same claims (only the status of Geshe Kelsang Gyatso of the NKT as another Buddhist messiah to the West comes close). The position of the DWB on the minority side of the Karmapa debate also f
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"
7 years ago
suenam
QuoteMisstykQuotedariusb Not even the facts can make you to see everyhing as they really are. hmm... I thought seeing the teachers as the all-too-human individuals that they are, prone to the same craving (or worse) as everyone else was seeing things as they really are. Gurus aren't magic, they're just people. That fact may not be exciting enough for some people, though. The irony h
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"
7 years ago
suenam
QuotesuenamQuotestpauli...in a book by Gendun Rinpoche Heart Advice From a Mahamudra Master you will find a detailed story of how the 16th Karmapa sent him to the West and the instructions he received on spreading Buddha-Dharma there. Can you give me a page reference please? Sorry, I thought you meant Nydahl, now I see you meant, “To bring the Dharma to the West, it was necessary to send an awake
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"
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