Hey Kailua_no more SIF, most excellent post. I left the cult some twenty years ago. Things were starting to get absolutely absurd back then. I cans see things have degenerated even more now. I look forward to reading more from you to find out just how crazy it has gotten. Thanks so much for your post. You are not alone as there are more of us out here than you think even if we don't always c
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

That is the problem with politics.. a real politician will go with the tide. Now that the war is becoming so unpopular Krishna Katha das might change his attitude externally and do a different dance in order to keep his popularity. It has nothing to do with the truth. Krishna Katha das was never really homophobic or a war monger until FL taught him to be and at heart I think he probably hates
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Furthermore... It is unprecedented for a Gaudiya Vaishnava Acharya to marry his spiritual daughter, to give up vows after once uttering them in front of his guru, to engage in underhanded politics, to live a lavish lifestyle of ease and comfort at the expense of his followers, or or to go into hiding to avoid controversy. The acharya should be approachable by the common man. Our acharyas come
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Hi Dassi, thanks. I wonder what Krsnacon thinks about my post. I wonder how long it will be before he is told to stay off this site. At least he is trying to defend his guru. That is what a disciple is supposed to do. If the disciple cannot counter those who challenge what the guru teaches then he is considered to be a type of spiritual eunuch and the guru impotent for not being able to in
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Krsnacon, welcome. Many have posted here who were very close to Chris Butler. I know things have changed and now many will become his follower and disciples without ever having much contact with him. So if such persons hear some of the things on this website it may be hard for them to believe. I think you may fall into the category of one who will never have much close contact with Chris and
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Hey I Believed, Great post. What took place with your Dad was appalling. I remember hearing how all those people who went to other gurus were demons. The thing is that has happened more than once. I know it happened in the PI and I am getting information it happened in other places too. But now when it happens they try to keep it secret. When all those devotees went to that Indian Guru (yes I
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Also check out “Womens Empowerment”, on this page.
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

The following is a quote from Dassi on page 224. “I find your defense of the Vaishnava religion and liberal take on things compelling and different. I'd like to know how widows are treated in your group. Are young women forced to marry or if a young woman is widowed, is she allowed to remarry or is she forced to join an ashram if the family can't afford to take her back? I know these
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Good points googling. Sids political leanings are baffling. I mean WTF does he think he will accomplish? It would be impossible for any of his men to come out of the closet spiritually speaking. People do not like being duped or tricked even for their own good. I can just see Mike Gabbard as president saying, "Oh btw now that I have become prez. of these United States of America, I just want
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

"Gradually they will come to sense." ASBS, re quoted for emphasis. Of course this was ACBS wishful thinking. His kind nature was that he accepted practically anyone, even wild animals. Of course many see this as a fault. Sometimes it is said the acharaya overlooks fault to a fault, he shows compassion to a fault and tolerance to a fault. If these are faults then yes the bona-fide
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Los Angeles 15 June, 1972 72-06-15 Laguna Beach My Dear Siddha Svarupananda, Please accept my blessings. Just now I am in receipt of some pamphlets and one booklet entitled ``Sai Speaks'', so I see so many discrepancies from our line of action in devotional service. I do not know if you are again acting upon your old principles on the guise of becoming a San
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Another way we were misled was the FL’s take on Sarasvati Thakur, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakur. Although the Thakur was a fierce preacher against all the discrepancies within Hinduism and he was not afraid to stand up against the status quo in India and put his life on the line. Not just hiding somewhere out of site, but the Thakur walked freely and preached freely without fear. At t
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Quotejust-googlingQuotehoax108 Here is some food for thought from "The Imitation of Christ" which, by the way, is the second most read book by Christians, next to the bible: "The man who dwells in perfect peace suspects evil of noone. The man who is discontented and disgruntled has a heart filled with suspicion; he himself has no rest nor does he allow others to po
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

As far as what will happen when the Fl leaves. The answer is if his followers do not get a shiksa guru they will continue to promote an apasampradaya, a broken sahajiya branch. But the reality is FL could be here for decades to come. So I would not wait myself. If you have realized the guru is not up to the standards the best thing is to move on. You are not obliged to do what I am doing or w
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Quotehoax108Quotesman - could you please provide us with an interpretation based on your knowledge of Vaishnavism regarding FLs constant chastisement of his followers, the issuing of fines, the signing of non-disclosures etc. and so on. That would be really interesting. Thank you Hoax. The whole thing with the fines etc is based on the idea FL’s followers are a bunch of idiots who cannot be
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Quotehoax108Quotesman - My sentiments exactly. My guess is that NM dismissed these letters as simply as one brushes a fly off one's sleeve. An advanced devotee would not be bothered by such mundane behaviour. He probably had his disciple respond due to the volume of emails received and in an attempt to offer them instruction. Again, we beg anyone to please enlighten us as to what trai
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

It is possible a stray devotee might appear. But it would have to be one not following FL very closely. There have been some on the internet, those who really know little about what goes on in the cult who sometimes try to defend FL. But lately since so much information about the cult has appeared on the internet those people seem to be mostly silent now. One tactic would be an onslaught headed
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

QuoteveggiechipssuckDoes any one have any evidence of members having more than 1 wife and having children with both wifes ? Yes but I will not name the persons. In every case of having more than one wife it never worked out. I have known just two who had more than one wife, in both cases it did not work and eventually one of the wives went away. When asked the question is it ok for devotees
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Excellent points Hoax. One I had not thought of in relation to Lord Jesus Christ. That is the perfect example. Thank you. And we can also see the same type of submission from every other acharya in the line. ACBS did not begin his role as guru until well into old age. Same with Narayana Maharaja and all the senior disciples of Bhaktisiddhanta. We were taught by FL all the Godbrothers of ACBS wer
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Fl would not know spiritual etiquette if it bit him on the arse. Notice that a disciple of Narayana Maharaja addresses the disciples of FL. None of the followers of Narayana Maharaja try to instruct FL directly. In other words they are still showing FL respect. The respect he himself and his followers fail to show Narayana Maharaja and his followers. FL has all these people that don’t have a
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Quotejust-googlingThanks for posting these letters, Quotesman. You are welcome but I think it is time for some comic relief. :lol:
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Although Prema prayojan brahmacari did an excellent job in pointing out the mistakes and lack of understanding and history of the line, there are so many mistakes made by FL Prema prayojan brahmacari could not cover them all in his letter. For instance FL says ACBS never allowed his followers to take second initiation from his godbrothers. This is another case of FL either lying or not knowing t
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

FL and Tusta both condemned students (who were not even initiated disciples) for going to other gurus as far back as when he first married his spiritual daughter. And even when ACBS was present if people tried to go back and forth they were condemned. One devotee got kicked out because he went to a Ratha Yatra. Later the devotee came back with his tail between his legs promising not to make such
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Prema Prayojan das brahmachari a disciple of Narayana Maharaja wrote a response. My dear brothers and sisters of the Caitanya Mission, Please accept my humble obeisances. Sri Sri Guru-Gaurangau jayatah! I am writing this letter in response to the many e-mails which we are currently receiving from various members of the Caitanya Mission such as Acarya das, Madan Mohan dasa, Sukadeva dasi,
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

So it appears the majority would like to see the letters. I am going to post all I have. As far as I know these are all the communications. I want to make something clear here. I am not an initiated disciple of Sri Narayana Maharaja nor have I ever met him in person. I have never been to his mission or any of its branches around the world. I have met a few of his followers but have no close p
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

“In my opinion, the letter goes to prove that Mr. Butler does not have the qualities of a devotee as outlined by Lord Chaitanya: "I have no desire to accumulate followers..." googling Yes they do prove that absolutely. It was all about prestige, money and collecting followers. There is
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

The letters are about Butlers behavior towards those within his own religion. But if you say no I can live with it. So are you saying I should not post the letters? I can guarantee you Chris Butler would agree with you if the answer is no. I am sure he would hate to see those letters broadcast here.
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

I do not want to cross Rick Ross or others on this thread. The letters contain an exchange between two Vaishnava missions. One mission has the proper concepts down concerning the ontological truths of the Brahma Madhva Gaudiya Vaishnava Sampradaya while the other group is way out in left field somewhere (FL and the gang). But these letters may be of no interest to the main audience here and it m
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

The letter was written in the year 2,000. . And the letter is ontologically correct on all points. The FL has given a very few mantra diksa. But without the proper conception of what it is, it will not help anyone. Acharya das was the secretary of the WVA for awhile. But since Tusta left they have not been very involved with it. I think they may still send representatives. Some devotees
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Here is a pretty good letter from one like you who began to see the light and decided to go to another guru. Of course FL demonized both his follower and the guru that helped him. The proper thing for Fl to do would have been to give his blessings. Instead he acted like a jilted highschool girl condemning everyone involved, even a guru far more advanced and senior to him. Dear Gurudev,
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"