Whoa boy! I just read this one from Ralpher: Since ideas can't hurt people, all of these gurus are well within their rights to sell their stuff. It's a business to them, in addition to being a nice way to spend their time, and downright helpful a lot of the time to some of the people. Okay, take one BIG mo'foing step back right now, Ralpher, I think we found the error muy gra
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Our local Byron Katie promoter's comments about 'science' are totally false. One does wonder if that disinformation come right from Byron Katie herself? But the only thing our Byron Katie promoter said about the world of the New Age Teachers that I agree with was this... _________________________ 1. Keep the money you have. 2. Take others' away. ___________________
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

No, I"m not going to stop posting, I'm just not going to continue engaging with Ralpher. It's interesting how I'm not supposed to judge Byron Katie, I'm not supposed to judge him, I'm not supposed to feel we can "know" anything. Sometimes I wonder why the good lord dun give me a brain 'tween my ears! Of course I was giving Ralpher the benefit of
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

vlinden: Remember that the purpose of an Internet troll is often to subvert a thread, e.g. chase people off. Don't allow ralpher to do that if you are interested in this topic.
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

ralpher: Some of your posts have not been approved because they are little more than flames. See the rules. Be honest, you are here on a mission, not so much for any meaningful exchange of ideas, but rather as a defender of Katie. Can you think of anything wrong with Byron Katie?
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

That's fine with me dude, sayonara. But take this with you: it is absolutely abusive, in any form of relationship, to insist that you know what is in someone's head better than they do. To insist that they aren't being honest, or know something that you know, without checking it out, asking them, is truly to abuse. So who is being more abusive, Byron Katie on that tape, when
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

And finally, my response to the flower incident: Byron Katie was possibly challenging the woman to say why she should react differently from the flower. That could have led to an interesting exchange, and then we'd know much more about what BK meant. Unfortunately, the woman on camera did not pick up the point, and so we can't really know what she meant by it. She might have meant to
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

The thing with the Israelian woman is, Byron did not ask her if she was 100% sure that a bomb was going to be dropped on her or if her feelings were realistic. Byron asked if the woman was 100% sure that she was afraid of war. Of course she was sure of what she felt. Convincing people that they do not feel what they feel, don't want what they want, don't think what they think can cause
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

You guys are playing God. Are you enjoying yourselves? Your position boils down to: no one should say the things that these people are saying, because they're not true and no one should have to listen to things that are not true. Since when do we need to be protected from what people say? This country was founded on two principles: 1. Keep the money you have. 2. Take others
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

yes vlinden, all the analysis really comes down to basics. In terms of the Big Name New Agers, without exception its about the money. They may delude themselves on some-level, but most of them know what they are doing is a con-game. Its about the money. Money is very important, it pays their bills, mortgage, cars, trips, islands, planes, jewels... They freaking love that Big Easy Money.
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Anti-Cult Thanks, I was going to say all of that but didn't have the energy. See, this is my point, where is the poison hidden? Someone without the knowledge base might accept Ralphers statement as fact without verification. The New Age is just ridden with people making these kinds of pronouncements, false statements so dramatic that they pass as wisdom to those who don't know bet
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Actually, It's Popper, who you quote yourself, who argues that science can't verify. Einstein has never been, and never will be, verified. We will accept his work, provisionally, until someone does refute it. Remember Newton? And yes, the person--or computer--that does refute a key element of Einstein's thinking will win the nobel prize, if we haven't all drowned by the
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Actually, that is Epistemology. It is correct that in philosophy of science nothing can be known to be 100% true with Certitude. But its false to say we can't verify, and only refute. That is a mental-con and false-statement. Is that from Byron Katie? Science is based on both falsification and verification. Einstein's Relativity has been VERIFIED thousands of times, and NEVER
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Ralpher, It's interesting that you managed two long responses to me without once addressing the question I asked about the vase of flowers, and without addressing what I considered to be the most important problems with Byron Katie. This dissuades me from dealing with your responses piece by piece. Plus I don't have much time right now, and I think you're pretty sold on Byron a
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

And one more thing, Linden: You say: " The issue isn't whether we should ask ourselves questions, or question our own beliefs, motives, patterning, etc." Actually, that's exactly the issue. Questions are the most significant phenomena--in addition to a good laugh--that makes us human. They are our most powerful tool. Perhaps the most powerful tool of all i
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Thanks for being open enough to ask a question--if you really mean it as a question. I'm going to treat it as one. What kind of logic is necessary? Well, I think that the most important logical, rational tool is the one tries to find the meanings that are intended by the speaker. Perhaps the most important such tool is sometimes called the principle of charity: you attribute a meaning to
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

The issue isn't whether we should ask ourselves questions, or question our own beliefs, motives, patterning, etc. The problem with Byron Katie is that she supports the New Age perspective that people should live in some altered state of consciousness (called grace, I believe) that is without all of the "negative" states that Katie herself could not handle, and therefore ended up
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Ralpher: You write: For example, someone, whether it's BK or my friend, suggests to me that despite abuse I suffered, I was also an abuser. If I have no boundaries, this will hurt, I will take it literally, I will get extremely angry, I will feel as if it is true and yet have no way to counter the bitterness of it. It's way too much at once. I will have no choice but to react again
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

ralpher: I will watch for others personally attacking you, but be honest, you are not here for a discussion, rather just to defend Katie. FYI--Bashing people that feel they were damaged by Katie by offering your amateur psychoanalysis making them somehow responsible for their own injury is a type of personal attack. BTW--Substituting Katie for legitimate professional counseling and thera
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

rr moderator: Please explain the following: A) your failure to admonish others, who are engaging in personal attacks; B) what specifically you mean by 'personal attack' in relation to this message. Perhaps it's obvious to you (lots of things seem obvious to some of the posters on this board--perhaps it's your style?). R
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

ralpher: First and last warning. Remember, personal attacks are against the rules.
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

I'm fascinated by some of the angry, ranting-type responses to the variety of teachers out there. Some of these teachers are extraordinary--Byron Katie for example--and I mean that in a positive way. I have tried several forms of therapy, including stuff focusing on PTSD--nothing comes close to Katie's work. But what I really want to say is that those angry voices here are giving
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Hi left_of_the_dial, You don’t have to defend mindfulness as a path to happiness and mental stability. No one is arguing against it here. It’s the harmful bunk these people (gurus) sell along with techniques such as mindfulness, staying in the present, not obsessing over past and future, meditation…etc (techniques that DO make people feel better) that I have a case against. Eckhart Tolle is s
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Do you know what is even more insane than Byron Katie. People who believe in free will and at the same time hold the Calvinist ie current born again doctrine of pre-destination. In other words, they believe that God has already determined the outcome of their life, but have free will to change it. Now that's insane. Or how about the classic Campus Crusade for Christ line from the four
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

golder6716: It seems like your only purpose here is to defend Byron Katie and Tolle.
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Jesus4America: Please stop promoting Oprah's book club here or any authors associated with her. This is against the rules of the message board.
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Do you know what is even more insane than Byron Katie. People who believe in free will and at the same time hold the Calvinist ie current born again doctrine of pre-destination. In other words, they believe that God has already determined the outcome of their life, but have free will to change it. Now that's insane. Or how about the classic Campus Crusade for Christ line from the fou
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

I totally agree. All these people who write books and claim to be experts. What a total fraud. Like James Dobson, the expert on the family who rakes in 100 million a year and tells everybody how to keep a family together. Too bad he's a total hypocrite since his very own son, Ryan Dobson is now on his second marriage. Good Job Dr. Dobson, next time I want to get a book on family matters
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

One other amusing thing...Oprah keeps pumping this book, and it will stay #1 for as long as she does so. But every 2nd 5-Star comment at Amazon, seems to be a self-shill. They say things like.... ET's book is great, my shit don't stink no more, and I am now a sexy millionaire monk with tons of sex, money, houses, cars, and happiness, and my cancer got cured too, and I lost 50 lbs w
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Thanks for the info Suzy, I think you hit it right on the mark. By what is really disturbing about this, is that Oprah is absolutely promoting the hell out of this thing, almost everyday she is selling selling selling ET to the millions, with not one tiny iota of critical thought about it. And she is doing it very craftily, by not showing him, and making him seem 'mysterious'. This
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"