Strnage.
Dennis caught Jack Hickman's seed as a young minor and yet he didn't exactly rise up through the ranks of this cult.

But Richie, RICHIE WALSH, the older brother/overseer/caretaker? of young Dennis is now one of the top members?

Is that a pattern with this group?

Lots of healers/therapists/councilors in this group. Did RICHIE WALSH the SOCIAL WORKER who worked at MELVILLE HOUSE which is a home for EMANCIPATED MINORS....have anything to do with GARY CONNS' in-laws adopting a young man who was an emancipated minor...??

I know Jack Hickman liked the orphanages.
Goodness how many Koreans were adopted by this cult?
How many Korean girls were raped at a young age and told to shut up about it?

Do members of this group currently scope out oversees orphanages or US group homes???

I wonder.

I think this is from one of Sallie's post, or Sallie's posts quotes or something. It says: "If this group persists in its strange doctrines and theologies, it will eventually dissipate and disappear. Somehow I cannot believe that the children of Hickman's followers, many of whom are now having their own children will be willing to carry Hickman's poison into a third generation. "

This is untrue. 3rd and 4th generations of kids are being born and indoctrinated and there is nothing that anyone is going to do about it. They even started their own "home-school" for the "new youth." Bet El part 2?

People who want to leave, will, and have already. But the incentive to leave and the pro/con thing is the issue.

People who cannot leave are in the "big" families with all of the grandparents and extended families involved. They are thought of as black sheep, on the outskirts, can't be trusted. "bad kids" I really loved all the "bad kids." What a blast they were. These people are actually awesome because they tried to stand up for themselves. Unfortunately, they take a verbal beating for it. Nasty. I wonder how long they will continue to fight it off and stand up for themselves before they either walk away or just tire out from the battle of their lives?

When I left, I told everyone I was still keeping in contact with why I was leaving. I told no less than 20 youth about the article, that they could contact me whenever they wanted, that I wanted to talk about it, that I wanted to help, but to leave me the hell alone if they wanted to still be a part of things. 1 person still in it blinked an eye and had that reaction that I had. Everyone else.... even the cool "bad kids"..... they tried to get me to "stick around." They thought that having "enlightened" youth, people who knew "the truth about Jack" could get it to spread and help with asking the hard questions of the soon-to-be demented population. The why's and how's and what-not's. I couldn't believe it. Here I was telling them that their life was a lie and they were fighting for a good reason, and they just wanted to suck me back in again in the name of rebel-rousing? It made me completely suspicious. I was exhausted by just continuing to explain myself to these people for 1 week! (not to mention the emotional trauma of the finally seeing the magnitude of the thing). At one point, I just said f-it. Sorry, not up for that. Not up for the trials... like Sallie was talking about. Not up for the mind-games of figuring how to speak the truth and have other people hear it without it being distorted and corrupted.

Some other people, they said "be well." Actually, an alarming amount of people said "be well." It was unnerving. I felt like I must have missed that lesson, seeing as so many people were acting like they were reading out of the book. Robots.

I think you need to keep in mind the processes of change... or the Transtheoretical Model of Behavior Change to make healthy decisions.

Precontemplators--not planning on changing
Contemplators--planning on changing in the next 6 months
Preparation--planning on changing in 1 month
Action--actively participating in healthy behaviors
Maintenance--actively participating for over a year
Termination--continual participation for over 5 years

I was in the contemplation/prep phase when I read the article. I had been weighing the pros and cons of leaving for years. I had had one foot out the door ever since they tried to tell me I couldn't marry my awesome husband (whom I did marry anyway, thank god I'm stubborn). All I needed was the one last thing to tip the scales to getting myself bullshit free. But I was working my way up to it.

With people in the first phase... all you can do is educate them, ask questions, and hope to excite enough interest to create a different thought. But if they live in an area where they are always being dragged back to a meeting or camping or preparing for the Messiah... the scales will continually dip back in the same direction. That's why I don't think some of these kids can leave. Their family units are humongous! There will be 5 people to every 1 person telling them to come back. It would take an incredible amount of strength and reserve and time to break free without a major life event happening!

Don't get me wrong, I'm cautiously optimistic about it. I really really hope that it happens for people. I really really hope that it fizzles out, but there are SO MANY NEW BABIES! They are just fortifying the ranks. This group will always be around in some extent. There will always be a group that continues to spread this crap.

I can only hope they don't continue the sexual abuse... but seeing as most of them have experienced it.... and we tend to live what we know...

and ick.. George Delalio. One of his kids raped someone I know. Disgusting. I wonder if "how to physically manipulate minors to get sex" was part of a family outing for them?
That photo of him in the sex offenders registry makes me want to vomit.

I wondered about his boys. Doesn't he have four boys and a brother?
My God.
The apple aint falling too far from the tree...?

I agree that it is not very likely that this group will disintegrate, although, it would please me if it did. I was there that night in January 1982. Pastor Don was sitting behind me and after all was said and people were starting to leave, I turned and asked him, "is this true?" He said, "yes, but " and started to give me the passing of the seed story. I didn't stay to listen. At, "yes" I had already made up my mind. My daughter would no longer go to school, I would no longer be involved. I went back to a friend's house and listened to a houseful of people who were incensed that anyone would say those things about "Abba." I kept quiet there, but on the way home told my husband of my decision. Most of my friends that were in that house eventually left, although it took some of them months.

We were people who were not sequestered in the mountains or in a compound. We had jobs in the regular world and most of us had families who were glad of our decision to leave. The amount of information we were given that night was astounding, not only the sexual abuse, but other abuses, the lies and delusions. Yet, even with all of that, I had friends that stayed. The power this group, as with any other cult, has over people's minds is amazing. Questioning was more than discouraged, until that night it wasn't even an option. Some of my friends were literally afraid for their safety when they finally made the decision to leave.

I can't imagine how hard it has been for the young people, who were born into this, to leave. I am encouraged that even a few have had that strength. I don't imagine any of those my age who stayed will ever leave.

I am no longer in contact with anyone who has stayed. So, I have to ask again, is there anything someone like me can do to help? I don't have the opportunity to encourage active members to question their lives and commitment to this group. Have there been legal actions taken or is this even possible? Are there Precontemplators, Contemplators or those in the Preparation stage on this forum who would be helped by more information or personal stories? Is there any kind of information or support that would be helpful to those who have left? I feel somewhat useless when I read the story of disillusioned 1 and her friends.

And, yes, George D., ick and no surprise there. I know this from a personal experience.

I read and heard more than once that this group openly shames and humiliates young people who chose a homosexual lifestyle??
Something very alarming about that.
Very.
Isn't Gary the number one guy? Don't the youth know that both he and his wife are homosexuals.?
I always assumed it was a known fact.

I assumed that they are ''masquerading'' as heterosexuals for the outsiders. So the outsiders wouldn't condemn the group for having a homosexual leader..
But WITHIN this group they try to pose as heterosexuals???
That makes no sense. It's as if there is still an ''inner circle'' thing happening.....even within this group??
It makes no sense..
What sort of spin and crazed teachings do OPEN homosexuals do in order to make another man feel ashamed for being gay?
I don't understand. Are they not really open...even within the group??? Maybe things have really changed via the re-location???

By 1982 everyone in my generation knew or eventually became aware of Jack's homosexual relationship with Lou and GaryFor most it took Nancy and the article but.....
For the ''inner circle'' it started with ''testing the waters''. long before the article came out. Long before 1982......I'm not talking about all of the elders or leaders necessarily...I'm talking about ''inner circle'' adlults.

Long before 1982 people would be invited to Jack's estate in Islip where he would leave his bedroom door open and let it be seen that there was only one jumbo sized bed.
He would sheepishly elude to the fact that it was the only bedroom. I think getting an invite into his inner circle depended on how wide your jaw dropped. If you smirked a bit you got an invite. (that's my spinn Or...if you reacted cluelessly....an invite(again...my spin).....

Anyway after the article came out some members who weren't part of the inner circle decided to stay. They weren't religious people. They were people who somehow felt comfortable and even ...happy about the seed passing thing.

I fully expected to learn that the ''soon to be demented population''lol.....would be covering up rape and what not....

What baffles me is hearing that they shame and shun open homosexals.

Unless,,,,,maybe if all marriage has to be approved of then.........maybe even homosexual relationshiops have to be leadership - approved????.

ick ick ick.....what if it's ok for some poor young man to catch the seed of an elder but it is not ok for him to pursue his own interests???

Prior to 1982 Jack had begun his SUBTLE preachings.

1) Jonathan - David relationship . David loved Jonthan more than all women and after Jonathan died David eventually took one of his offspring (seed) into his home
2)Isaac asked Jacob to put his hand under his thigh as he passed on a blessing in the book of Genesis(according to Jack the blessing was his sperm and Isaac needed to ...catch it??)
3)Holy Blood Holy Grail was standard reading. Messiah has a bloodline and it can be passed down through seed/sperm...Mary was a virgin? Well that means there can be a ''supernatural'' passing of the seed...you get the picture.

So this was not madness. Not at all. He wasn't deluded. He was brilliant. Really.

No one thought he was an insane old coot. People followed these ideas. He didn't pull them out of thin air. It was all deliberate.

A glorification of Jack's personal genitalia...and Gary knew it. Gary and some of his friends were/are gay.....so is his wife. ......
Everyone in my generation knows that.

What are they telling the young people??????

The statutes of limitations for sexual assault crimes in New England, New York, and New Jersey, vary greatly, depending on the state, the severity of the offense, whether there are aggravating circumstances, the victim's age, and whether the state has an extension for particular circumstances.

For the most serious crimes, there is no statute of limitations in New Jersey, Rhode Island, and Vermont. For the other states, the statute of limitations is:

1. Massachusetts-15 years;

2. Maine-six years, but there is NO STATUTE OF LIMITATIONS if the victim is under age 16;

3. New Hampshire-six years, but for victims under age 18, a prosecution can occur at anytime within 22 years of the victim's 18th birthday;

4. New York-five years, but if the victim was under age 18, the statute of limitations will not start until the child has reached age 18 or the offense is reported to a law enforcement agency or central register of child abuse, whichever occurs earlier.

Five states-MAINE, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, New Jersey, and Vermont-have recently INCREASED THE STATUTES OF LIMITATIONS for sexual assault crimes.

The Maine, New Hampshire, and New Jersey laws address the retroactivity of changes to the statute of limitations. The Maine and New Jersey law apply to all future crimes and all prior crimes where the previous statute of limitation has not yet run out. The New Hampshire law applies to victims injured before, on, or after its effective date.

In four states-Massachusetts, New Hampshire, New Jersey, and Vermont-the courts have upheld the retroactive application of changes to the statutes of limitations, provided certain conditions are met.

MAINE

The statute of limitations for gross sexual assault is six years. The law defines "gross sexual assault" as a sexual act committed in one of 12 aggravating circumstances. These include the use of force or threat, the assault of a victim who is under age 14 and is not the perpetrator's spouse, and the perpetrator's use of drugs to impair the victim's perception (Me. Rev. Stat. Ann. 17-A § 253).

The statute of limitations for sexual abuse of a minor is three years, but it is six years if the state proves that the perpetrator was more than 10 years older than the victim or knew that they were related. Also, if the victim is under age 16, there is no statute of limitations for incest, unlawful sexual contact, sexual abuse of a minor, or rape or gross sexual assault. "Sexual abuse of a minor" can occur under any of four circumstances. It includes a sexual act between a perpetrator and a 14-or 15-year old victim who is not his spouse and is at least five years younger than the perpetrator (Me. Rev. Stat. Ann. 17-A §§ 8, 253, 254).

The statute of limitations for unlawful sexual contact is three years, but it is six years if (1) the victim is under age 18 and the perpetrator is a parent, stepparent, foster parent, guardian or other person responsible for the victim's long-term care; (2) the victim is forced to submit; or (3) the state can prove sexual penetration. "Unlawful sexual contact" is sexual contact that occurs in any of 10 aggravating circumstances. These include any circumstance in which the victim (1) does not consent, (2) is unconscious or otherwise physically unable to resist sexual contact, or (3) suffers from a mental disability that renders her incapable of understanding the nature of the contact (Me. Rev. Stat. Ann. 17-A §§ 8 and 255).

The statute of limitations is three years for sexual misconduct with a child under age 14. The crime occurs when the perpetrator is at least age 18 and shows a victim under age 14 sexually explicit material in order to encourage the victim to engage in a sexual act or sexual contact (Me. Rev. Stat. Ann. 17-A §§ 8 and 258).

For any of the above crimes, the statute of limitations will not run (1) for a maximum of five years when the perpetrator is not in Maine or (2) while a prosecution against the perpetrator for the same crime, based on the same conduct, is pending in Maine.

Legislation Expanding the Statute of Limitations

In 1991, the legislature amended the statute of limitations and allowed prosecution at any time if the victim was under age 16 when incest, rape, or gross sexual assault were committed (1991 Me. Laws 585 § 2). In 1999, it added unlawful sexual contact and sexual abuse of a minor to this list (1999 Me. Laws 438 § 1). Both laws apply to future crimes and prior crimes where the previous statute of limitation had not run out (1991 Me. Laws 585 § 3).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/09/2011 04:58AM by Sallie.