I just read it this morning and Hebrews 13:3 has new meaning now to me and I believe is the motivating factor for my posts.

Remember those in prison, as if you were there yourself. Remember also those being mistreated, as if you felt thier pain in your own bodies.



For anyone who this may help, I have posted how I see this group relating to the ten warning signs of an unsafe group/destructive cult:

1. Absolute authoritarianism without meaningful accountability
This one is hard for a trumpeter to see because they will see God as the ultimate authority, but when you look at it closely, there is absolutely no real room for questioning or verifying anything that Timothy says because he is placed between God and people as the only conduit of God’s messages (even though he says there are 144,000 he hasn’t even mentioned one other person outside the group). There are a few others in the group who have apparently received messages but they all need to be “proofread” by Timothy (when he reads it over with the Lord). This “church” as they sometimes call themselves has elders but they are Timothy’s in-laws and they defer to him because he is “the prophet”, so really he is the only head.

2. No tolerance for questions or critical inquiry
God said to test the spirits, but in this group if you just can't get it and you don't exactly agree with what they believe, you will be ostracized (and some were even kicked out) because you don't share the exact same beliefs. There were several who were “departed” because they did not believe that there is no eternal torment in hell, or they did not leave the church (mainstream churches or what the group calls “man-made churches”), or they did not give money/strength/time etc. to help someone else (though I’m not sure how they determined that).

3. No meaningful financial disclosure regarding budget, expenses such as an independently audited financial statement.
We all know the questions around this one, because Timothy doesn’t directly ask for any money there are no financial statements or accountability. I do know though that there are some who “tithe” for trumpeting expenses (not sure who because they won’t take money directly from just anyone but Timothy’s wife Amy once told me that some do “tithe”) and they had also talked about starting up something where those residing in the US could give money to Amy and Timothy to send to the orphanages of those affiliated with the group (we were told we could trust him with the money because God told Timothy if he ever took money for his own use that God would strike him dead)

4. Unreasonable fear about the outside world, such as impending catastrophe, evil conspiracies and persecutions.
Of course the end of the world and God’s judgment and wrath in the tribulation are how this group fits in this one. I do believe it will happen one day, but this group uses this to put people into a kind of panic to “get ready” and “be a worthy bride”. One thing that they also do is make people feel that the only place they can be where they are “safe” is in this group because all churches are apparently evil and all other Christians are deceived, so naturally the only place where you can be safe and get the truth is with them.

5. There is no legitimate reason to leave, former followers are always wrong in leaving, negative or even evil.
While we were told we could talk to members who had left or had been kicked out, they were always painted in a bad light. Like “poor so and so they made the wrong choice and now they will have to pay in the tribulation, but we will keep praying for them and we trust God will bring them to repentance in his timing”. If a person was kicked out, it was usually done in front of everyone or at the very least the “message the Lord gave them” was shared with everyone in the group. I also have good reason to believe that the leaders are lying to the group members about why I left because I was wholeheartedly committed when I stopped showing up so they couldn’t let people believe I left of my own accord or had been shown evidence that this is a cult and had been exited.

6. Former members often relate the same stories of abuse and reflect a similar pattern of grievances.
I don’t know any other former members personally, but I have had conversations while in the group with others who have felt the same feeling that we were always on edge and never sure if we were going to make the wrong move and be “punished” for it by being kicked out or having God be angry at us or at the very least disappointing Him. Also, I know we pretty much all separated from our families and friends and churches (if you didn’t you were kicked out) so there are many “patterns” which occurred.

7. There are records, books, news articles, or television programs that document the abuses of the group/leader.
The record is in this blog, Trent separated from his wife because of the group, as had I separated from my family because we were told to. Philly tells about the struggles she has with her spouse as a result of the group and the indoctrination process. The fact that he makes $93,000 and has several houses while he tells the group to give “out of their abundance or lack” and tells the churches that God is angry at them for hoarding money instead of giving it to the poor is also seemingly evidence of financial abuse in a way.

8. Followers feel they can never be “good enough”.
As mentioned above, there was a general complex that many of us had that we could somehow screw up and God would be angry at us or we would fail him. This was done in subtle ways so as not to go against scripture in saying you could lose your salvation, but that you could “miss the boat” in the rapture if you didn’t do all the right things. I agonized over the smallest mistakes and doubts sometimes for weeks, we were always told to have “nothing doubting” and so if any doubt came up in you’re mind you learned to block it out as something evil.

9. The group/leader is always right
While I heard Timothy admit some “stumblings” they were usually kind of said in a way that you admire him anyway, like not wanting to work for God one day but then God turning him around and making him work all night (kind of paints the picture that he is sacrificing so much for us in his service to God). Overall, what the “group” beliefs are or what Timothy says (because it is coming from the Lord) is not disputed, and if there are disputes it always winds up that the person on the other end of the dispute (not the group/leader) is the one that is wrong in everyone’s eyes.

10. The group/leader is the exclusive means of knowing the “truth” or receiving validation, no other process of discovery is really acceptable or credible.
Timothy is the only real conduit for the messages received from the Lord. As mentioned previously, even others who have apparently received messages have to have their messages “proofread” before anyone reads them. There is a letter which also says we are to only read God’s word (which includes the Bible and the letters) and that is it. We were discouraged from even watching the news or weather towards the end of my time there. Education is worth nothing to the group and “Scholars” and “Theologians” are viewed as evil.

I came across an article which describes some abuses against members which occur in destructive cults, I believe every one of them occur in this cult:


SOME ABUSES OF RIGHTS AND FREEDOMS:-

1. ABUSE OF INDIVIDUALITY
They adopt a "groupness" mentality. They are not permitted to
think for themselves apart from the group and only accept what
they are told.

2. ABUSE OF INTIMACY
Relationships with friends, relatives, spouses, children,
parents etc are broken or seriously hampered.

3. ABUSE OF FINANCES
Pressure to give all you can to the group. In non-communal
groups, members usually live at the lower socio-economic strata,
not because of a lower income level, but because they are always
giving money to the group for some reason.

4. "US VERSUS THEM" MENTALITY
Isolation from the community in general. Anyone and
everything outside the group is seen as "of the devil" or
"unenlightened" etc. Their enemies now include former friends;
the Christian church; governments; education systems; the media
- the world in general. Those who are involved with these in any
way see such involvement as a "means to an end".

5. ABUSE OF TIME AND ENERGY
The group controls and uses almost all the members time and
energy in group activities. They are usually in a constant
state of mental and physical exhaustion.

6. ABUSE OF FREE WILL
They must unquestioning submit to the groups teachings and
directions and their own free will is broken. Their "will"
actually becomes the groups "will" without their realizing it.
This is done either by coercive methods including low protein diets
and lack of sleep, or over a period of time through
intimidation. Both methods make heavy use of "guilt".


I posted a link to the article here if anyone is looking to read more:
[www.ex-cult.org]

LLG! awesome! Great info!!!!!

LLG and frogla,

If you all are starting a new blog, perhaps you can ask Rick Ross if you can co-opt his own well researched "warning signs":

[www.culteducation.com]

I would not use these on another site/blog without his direct blessings or at the very least a well-credited and linked shout-out.

Rick Ross et al have already done some serious lifting in this regard and I am sure if you asked him he would give you some direction for your new site.

Sparky,

There are alot of good resources on this site I completely agree. Rick Ross gave me these Warning signs in my intervention in fact, I simply added my own insights from this particular group (many of the insights were discussed during the intervention itself as well) I guess I should have probably mentioned that the ten signs were from Rick though and for that I appologize. I hope I didn't overstep with the abuses in the second post I just thought they really pointed to the kind of damage that this cult is doing in people's lives.

LLG, if Rick Ross did not complain, then take it as acceptance.

What you and frogla are doing is a very noble cause.

Don't sweat it, friend.

Read Galations!!!!! I've read it over and over today after my minister read it to me on Friday - such a warning for everyone connected with this group. I feel so much at peace now....
Gal1: 6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! 9As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!
10Am I now trying to win the approval of men, or of God? Or am I trying to please men? If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a servant of Christ.

6I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! 9As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!
10Am I now trying to win the approval of men, or of God? Or am I trying to please men? If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a servant of Christ.

Read it all - it's fantastic, everything about believing something other than the Word of God, everything about living under the old covenant instead of the new, I left it for my trumpeter today before going to Church.

HOW CAN THEY DISPUTE THIS? ITS THE IRREFUTABLE WORD OF GOD.....
I cannot conceive how these people can be fooled by Speed Rathbun.

Frogla, any private message I send you is still bouncing back. Cut and paste and save all your old messages and then delete them to make way for the new. xxx

ok. Thnx for sharing how to do that. On sunday, I'll work on that. Sry all...

That's really crazy - Trumpeters believe that god will rapture only very few people (regarding the letters the first harvest will be low) - Only people who are worthy will get raptured. If you do not believe in the letters of Timothy, you will definitely not get cought up to meet the lord.
So now, Trumpeters simply ask Timothy if "god" considers them as worthy to get caught up.

This is how it goes:

[11.09.2010 19:56:26] TRUMPETER: Tim has the Lord sayed I will be taken?

[11.09.2010 20:00:12] Timothy: For the very reasons over which your heart is troubled, coupled with that which I see deep within... shall you be gone... from this place when I call out your name... Says The Lord YahuShua