Lady Pleiades,

Thank you for clarifying your post.

I am very happy you have recovered from your experiences. I agree that society in general is an institution, I also agree good people exist within these institutions. I believe continued participation is an individual choice and I will not sway people with my own personal opinions one way or another on his/her decision to participate in religious institutions.

Personally, my days of religious involvement are over.

Thank you again. :D

Quote
Lady Pleiades

Quote

Your suggestion that a less dogmatic group is questionable as cult members have a tendancy to believe that everyone needs to be involved in some kind of religious group. It is as if cult members encourage and believe in institutionalizing

[b:a4e5ccc112]As I didn't have that much time to write a detailed response, I knew this comment would probably generate controversy. I don't know if we can be completely free from institutions. Society itself is an institution and, barring living in a mountain cave or Howard Hughes type seclusion, I don't know if we can be completely free from it. That is a philosophical discussion. [/b:a4e5ccc112]

I am an alcoholic and I was a member of AA before I ever joined the cult. I know some would argue, pretty strongly, that AA is a cult. However, what I have learned is that not all institutions are bad. I can participate in AA to the extent that I feel comfortable and I have the right to stay and go as I please. There are religious people doing wonderful work all the time. And, like you say, they generally don't need to use coercive methods to attract people or make them stay. After my experience with psychotherapy, I could make a strong case that all psychotherapy is mind control, thus bad. But I received some excellent help (albeit short-term) from some very excellent practitioners: a psychologist, a social worker, a psychiatrist.

My big ephiphany around my cult experience is this: There are good practitioners and bad practitioners in every field. There are good doctors and bad doctors. There are good teachers and bad teachers. Good plumbers and bad plumbers. You can choose to be ethical in whatever work you do.

[/quote]

See [www.culteducation.com]

Also see [www.culteducation.com]

These resources may be meaningful.

As far as grief and loss, one can grieve the loss of time, I feel. The loss of an idealistic view about people... (maybe that's what got me into trouble in the first place so maybe I just grew up thanks to the cult...) I lost a spouse to the cult. The books about grief and loss that helped me come from all different outlooks:

[u:876767a954]When Bad Things Happen to Good People.[/u:876767a954] Harold Kushner

[u:876767a954]When Things Fall Apart: Heart Advice for Difficult Times.[/u:876767a954] Pema Chodron, a Buddhist nun

Gratefulness.org - a website run by a Christian monk

"The Guest House" a poem by the poet Rumi
[www.gratefulness.org]

[u:876767a954]Heaven Begins Within You: Wisdom from the Desert Fathers.[/u:876767a954]
Anselm Gruen

As you can see there are no therapy-type, self-help books, so there's my bias. :) Thanks for continuing the conversation.

Quote
rrmoderator
See [www.culteducation.com]

Also see [www.culteducation.com]

These resources may be meaningful.

Mr. Ross,

Very much so.

Thank you :D

Quote
Lady Pleiades
[b:a2d5ce4f37]As far as grief and loss, one can grieve the loss of time, I feel. [/b:a2d5ce4f37]

Insightful and honest outlook. Every journey taken in life was pre-written for you and in that there is no such thing as wasted time.

I'm in the process of learning how to be selfish and self-centered for the first time in my life in order to unlearn my sub-conscious need to help others so much. Qualities destructive cults, abusers and victimizers look for in people, our sincerity, desire to help, and kindness was taken for weakness. We were dealing with predators.

Quote
Lady Pleiades
[b:a2d5ce4f37]The loss of an idealistic view about people... (maybe that's what got me into trouble in the first place[/b:a2d5ce4f37] so maybe I just grew up thanks to the cult...) I lost a spouse to the cult.

Yes, I now strictly adhere to the equally yoked policy. My experiences taught me that most people are exactly where and the way they want to be and so they are.

Quote
Lady Pleiades
The books about grief and loss that helped me come from all different outlooks:

[u:a2d5ce4f37]When Bad Things Happen to Good People.[/u:a2d5ce4f37] Harold Kushner

[u:a2d5ce4f37]Heaven Begins Within You: Wisdom from the Desert Fathers.[/u:a2d5ce4f37]
Anselm Gruen

Thank you for the recommendation I'll order copies right away.

Quote
Lady Pleiades
Thanks for continuing the conversation.

Thank you :D

Dear Ataloss,
In my day, I have been involved to one extent or another in three different cults, and I have been attacked by a fourth cult even though I was never a member, as fate has had it. I must say that for myself, I experienced the same types of feelings of anger and resentment when I left two of the three cults I was involved in. With both of the cults for which I experienced anger and resentment, the one that I was the most deeply involved in, caused me to feel these things for the longest period of time. For that particular cult, I experienced these things for the next four years after leaving.

Quote

You wrote: I was fortunate in that I left with my husband and daughter. I didn't leave with absolutely no one I knew to speak to, but I do feel as though the stress of leaving is making me upset a lot. I have no desire to go back. [b:a783e1870c]I just have a lot of anger and resentment[/b:a783e1870c] right now for being used the way I was and the things that were said about me.

Regarding this one cult that caused me to feel poorly for four years, I now no longer feel these things towards them, but I believe that it took me this long to get over it because I believe that I needed to figure out how deeply I had invested in them, even on subconscious levels, and to finally be able to let go of all of these investments. In my case, I felt that I finally figured it all out when I was finally able to write a letter to the leaders of the cult that both clearly listed my grievances with them, and also that made it clear that unless these grievances could be redressed to [i:a783e1870c]my satisfaction[/i:a783e1870c], they need not go looking after me again, which they haven't. :D

Quote

In reality, I do think that [b:a783e1870c]I can only really benefit from such things[/b:a783e1870c] because the people who are still willing to work with me won't be the paranoid types who would listen to Move. It will force me to stop working with people who are drawn to these types and have to seek out balanced people who really are about the cause and not subversion.

In my case my last departure from a cult caused me to change my occupation and my entire group of friends. This was the greatest blessing of all, as I came to realize a few things due to these changes. I came to realize that the last cult was so harmful, that I did myself the greatest favor I could by simply creating a social circle which in no way overlapped with theirs. I also came to realize that happiness is a far simpler commodity than I had been led to believe. It can be had on a very personal level, without the need to save anyone else, other than myself. Hah Hah! :lol:

Take care, and congratulations on your courage to do what you knew was right,

Scott P.

Quote
Scottperry

[b:632f1dc0a2]Regarding this one cult that caused me to feel poorly for four years, I now no longer feel these things towards them, but I believe that it took me this long to get over it because I believe that I needed to figure out how deeply I had invested in them, even on subconscious levels, and to finally be able to let go of all of these investments.[/b:632f1dc0a2] In my case, I felt that I finally figured it all out when I was finally able to write a letter to the leaders of the cult that both clearly listed my grievances with them, and also that made it clear that unless these grievances could be redressed to [i:632f1dc0a2]my satisfaction[/i:632f1dc0a2], they need not go looking after me again, which they haven't. :D

Scott P.

Scott P.

Thank you for sharing your story.

After weighing the pro's and con's of my prior investments inside a cult and deep thought about what really is important to me in life has given me the answers I need to free myself from further cult involvement or being tricked and manipulated into another cult. It has forced me to stop listening to, talking to, supporting, or associating with persons who are drawn to these types as well and remain in my circle of healthy balanced productive people who reflect my values, interest and ability to think for themselves.

I really enjoyed your inspiring input. :D

Quote
ataloss
I just left a cult two months ago and I am doing so much better as far as getting away from the mind control, but I am at a loss as far as interacting with the world around me. I was with the Move Organization for eight years and they go so much further then religous ideology, which they have a mountain of. They also prey upon political activists who tend to be VERY open to new experiences and fighting for the oppressed. So when people come across Move they feel really bad for all that they've been through (they had a bomb dropped on their house in 1985, killing 6 adults and 5 children when they had a stand off with police. It is numbing to see the similarities between how that went down and Waco). Move uses this to convince people of this kind of apocalypse that is going to take down everyone in the world, but them. They believe that no one has any answers, but their leader John Africa and that everyone who is not in Move is evil.

atalos,

The Move organization is still active?

I remember the bombing in Philadelphia. I was a kid when it happened. I thought for sure the organization had went under.

Quote
Scottperry
Dear Ataloss,
In my day, I have been involved to one extent or another in three different cults, [b:c05b20b1fa]and I have been attacked by a fourth cult even though I was never a member, as fate has had it.[/b:c05b20b1fa]

Scott P.

I really feel you on this one.

The offshoot version of the primary cult I studied while in their midst on internet was a racial hate group that promoted racial hatred and seperation as the basis of its doctrine stemming from the realities of some black american people in the 1930s living in poverty and the south.


In their high pressure converting methods to convince me that I needed to join unto them even though I do not and never truely have held racist views about any group of people, the cult orchestrated several assaults against me by using white people who sympathize with the Muhammad seperation doctrine to create hatred in my heart for white people.

When those assaults failed the cult graduated into trying to create a battered women's syndrome (attack my high self esteem) and guilt trip me into feeling sorry and indebted to black men in their doctrine (who i do not know) over what they teach is the the poor condition of black men in america. After all attempts failed to recruit me, I am now labeled as a tool of the white man to destroy the rise of the black man who according to their theology is God.

My greatest difficulty in understanding how this cult attracted some of my family members in the 1960s is that these family members grew up middle class in a white neigborhood as 1 of 5 black families living there without harm and harassment. They went to all white schools as northern blacks in the 1930s and 1940s and graduated from white colleges in 1950s, poverty and prison life has never been a part of their existence.

Nothing in my family background during the establishing of this cult in its early stages matches the kind of people the cult focused its doctrine and recruiting methods toward.

This was a part of my coming to terms with my not beloging as well.

In my heart I hate no one and find no benefit in promoting racial hatred.

Ways plus means

Thanks for your message. The ideas and exposure is compelling, thinking people will always welcome.