"In answer to Napoleon's question as to why he had not mentioned God in his "Celestial Mechanics", Laplace replied, "Sire, I have no need of that hypothesis."
Darwin, by accounting for the variety of life forms on the hypothesis that the principle of survival of the fittest, together with intrinsic variation, led to different species, effectively discredited the literal interpretation of the Bible, and so lessened belief in revealed religion and strengthened the scientific explanation. Even though science could not account for life, it was - and still is - assumed that it was only a matter of time before it would "explain" that too. And so God gradually dropped out of fashion.

Einstein wanted to reject quantum theory on the grounds that, "God does not play dice with the universe." The perfection of natural order, which led Laplace to dispense with God because there was no need for this hypothesis, gave way to the discovery of a fundamental "disorder", which Einstein could not accept. If Einstein could evoke God to oust disorder, how could Laplace use order to oust God?"
-Arthur M Young, Where Is God?

Sometimes, it seems to me that Tolle is trying to use time to oust time.

A report by one person who attended a Tolle event in Los Angeles in 2003.

[www3.telus.net]

(If you scroll up, there is a description of a Byron K event, too).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/27/2018 09:13PM by corboy.

That is the "story" that Tolle only had that other name...but is that a fact? Is it true?

Isn't that kind of Egotistical for Tolle to take the name of a FAMOUS MYSTIC as his own?
It would be like changing your own first name to Socrates, Plato, Michelangelo, Caesar or Napoleon!
Hey, lets all change our first names to famous people.
Caesar ________.

Seriously, that is when Tolle's delusions of grandeur really took off, when he "changed his name" which is a typical strategy these guys use.
That is also used in modern hypnotherapy, as well.

As far as Tolle not talking about his "story" so as to not distract from "his teachings" that is complete bunkum. False. (first off, they are NOT his teachings, there is not one original word in there, its all copied from others).
His "story" of sitting on a park bench and attaining enlightenment...is the CORE of his entire salespitch. That's all he ever talks about.
Tolle CONSTANTLY promotes his own story.

Its a self-consciously created "enlightenment story"...meant to be read like other tales of enlightenment, going all the way back to the Buddha under a tree, and all the rest of them.
He sat down, and WROTE a "story" about himself, he thought would be compelling to readers.

You know, Tolle and Byron Katie are very similar. Tolle supports Byron Katie, which is highly suspicious.
The reason for this, is they both are running the same sales-strategy...

1) I was a crazy, miserable, suicidal, messed up mentally ill dropout. (with no proof)
2) I attained enlightenment one day by magic. (with no proof)
3) buy my books/tapes/semianrs so you can become Happy like me. (with no proof)

So they have turned the IDEA of reaching Happiness and Enlightenment into a product, for $elling books, recordings, speeches, LGAT seminars, DVD's, posters, etc.

Get rich quick, with a fabricated enlightenment "story", and selling a false-idea of enlightenment for sale to the mass public.

That is actually very revealing about Eckhart Tolle.

It appears Tolle planned and created the oversold ticket and seating problems on purpose, to trigger emotions in people, and then use that against them to make them feel NEW AGER GUILT about not being enlightened like Tolle says he is. (meanwhile Tolle is quickly escorted in and out in a private limo, and does not have any contact with the mass public!).

Eckhart Tolle is also clearly using advanced mass-hypnosis techniques on his audience. He starts the "show" with silence, and then does a monotone delivery, and even puts people to sleep. He also does this on purpose...being BORING is a wonderful way to put people into a DEEP TRANCE, and then you can implant your Suggestions into their minds, and they are accepted more easily.
That is why Tolle endorses Byron Katie, they are both modern, indirect, permissive, master mass-hypnotists.

This is why Eckhart Tolle also attacks your mind, as its stands in his way of implanting his hypnotic suggestions into your brain. So he has designed his own methods to disabuse you of your ability to think. Notice how all of these guys are trying to do the same thing? From Werner Erhard, to L Ron Hubbard, to Byron Katie, to Eckhart Tolle...their #1 goal is to GET RID OF YOUR ABILITY TO THINK.
Like Yogi Bear, they want to be the ones doing the thinking.
Don't get duped.

But sadly, some people seem to want to get duped.

QUOTE:
"He sat and composed himself, and didn't begin to talk for another 5 minutes or so.
The entire audience of TWELVE HUNDRED PEOPLE (at $75 a shot!) fell reverentially quiet.
After a relatively short opening-silence stint, Eckhart began to speak quietly, in a near-monotone. His voice is gentle, lulling, not unpleasant - approximating 2001's HAL 9000 computer voice..."

Quote
corboy
A report by one person who attended a Tolle event in Los Angeles in 2003.

[www3.telus.net]

(If you scroll up, there is a description of a Byron K event, too).

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 09/27/2018 09:13PM by corboy.

Quote
The Anticult
Isn't that kind of Egotistical for Tolle to take the name of a FAMOUS MYSTIC as his own?

As far as Tolle not talking about his "story" so as to not distract from "his teachings" that is complete bunkum.

1) I was a crazy, miserable, suicidal, messed up mentally ill dropout. (with no proof)
2) I attained enlightenment one day by magic. (with no proof)
3) buy my books/tapes/semianrs so you can become Happy like me. (with no proof)

It is very common for religious or spiritual teachers to change their name (or be given one) after they become the "new" or "awakened" person. Siddhārtha Gautama became the Buddha, Jesus became the Christ, Stok Huyser became Catharose de Petri, etc.

Tolle never says "his" teaching only "the" teaching. Always impersonal and separate from himself.

How is one to prove their enlightenment? For me ... I watch and listen. If a person is authentically "awakened" their voice carries a specific vibration of silence. It's not the words, but what is behind it. I've watched most of the current or recent spiritual teachers either in person or on video and both Krishnamurti and Tolle (as two examples) carry and convey this stillness. It is very rare.

csp:

Previously you have claimed to be a "researcher," "mental health professional" and "scientist," never offering specifics to back up your claims.

Apparently you felt such unsubstantiated claims might somehow convince others on the board that you were somehow more credible and that your opinions about Tolle would thus carry more weight.

Now you say that the proof that Tolle is "awakened" comes from a "specific vibration of silence."

However, this is not science, but rather a claim of faith based upon your subjective feelings.

You also compare Tolle to "Buddha" and "Jesus."

Based upon your comments here it appears that Tolle has garnered a following of religious devotees.

And there is nothing scientific behind it, just people subjectively relying upon their feelings about Tolle.

It's sad to see Oprah using her television show to promote her brand of religion through a hand picked religious guru like Tolle.

Corboy wrote: A report by one person who attended a Tolle event in Los Angeles in 2003.

Thanks! I read the review. $90,000 for that one show, not bad. Less hall rental, less limo rental (LIMO RENTAL!?!? it might have been provided) less hotel costs. Still a good take. Again, that's his right in marketing "the" teaching.

If you're at all familiar with his live talks he quite often says things like "human beings are totally in the grip of ego...."
humans do this and humans do that. It's as if he's distanced himself from us mere mortals. On his Findhorn Retreat CD package he says that (without endorsing its use) "some people still might need LSD to see that the table is alive..." I can state from experience that inanimate objects do NOT appear to be alive while under the influence. They might appear to melt, morph, and take on swirling paisley patterns but they do not appear to be "alive". Nature and people can take on new dimensions more profound than carpeting or tables, but it's your own ALIVENESS that becomes the most significant. Tolle's "awakening" reminds me of a personal experience I had with LSD. Psychic impressions began to overwhelm. I experienced synaesthesia for the first and last time on that "trip". I also had a slight "ego death" in which the "me" that I was accustomed to temporarily "died". As the effects increased I was conscious of walking "out" of my body only to see it front of me and "re-enter" it. This became overwhelming as I was also recalling infantile and childhood memories as well as books I had read....page by page. It was as if my life was "flashing before my eyes" until I was convinced that I had died and was doomed to roam the earth as a discarnate entity. A profound sadness and fear gripped me. Eventually the mind "diarrhea" gave way to ecstatic bliss and contentment that NO amount of meditation could ever duplicate. I listened to music on a quadrophonic sound system (well, dual stereo) and just "blissed out". JOY! Overwhelming feelings of connectedness, and "oneness". Deep rivers within my heart just opened up and poured forth. I loved everyone and everything in those moments. Everything was a "message" from God. A leaf, the carpet, the music, an ant, everything "spoke" to me and pointed to this oneness. I was in the "now", I was in the "then" due to distortions of "clock time."
Perhaps to my detriment, I will never experience that intensity again. I also slipped into a "depression" about three days after this event as I "came back to earth".
Tolle seems to point to a state like this, and I've often wondered if he has taken LSD as well. How else would he know about tables appearing to be "alive?"

He also comments on sexual and romantic relationships alot, and there's always a subtle negativity when he refers to them. I have YET to here him say "in MY experience with...." or when "she/he broke my heart I felt like..." NO, always vague generalizations about the inherent ego wants and needs etc within relationships. Well Eckhart, how else do people learn? I've "been there" too. I've had 2, 4, 6 year relationships. I'm a father to an amazing girl. And I still love the women who have been a part of my life. I've also lived alone for the past 12 years.

I can't quite explain it, but the more I listened to "the" teaching...my intuition would say, "there's something not quite right here."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/05/2008 02:35AM by Hugh Manatee.

Quote
rrmoderator
csp:

Previously you have claimed to be a "researcher," "mental health professional" and "scientist," never offering specifics to back up your claims.

Apparently you felt such unsubstantiated claims might somehow convince others on the board that you were somehow more credible and that your opinions about Tolle would thus carry more weight.

Now you say that the proof that Tolle is "awakened" comes from a "specific vibration of silence."

However, this is not science, but rather a claim of faith based upon your subjective feelings.

You also compare Tolle to "Buddha" and "Jesus."

Based upon your comments here it appears that Tolle has garnered a following of religious devotees.

And there is nothing scientific behind it, just people subjectively relying upon their feelings about Tolle.

It's sad to see Oprah using her television show to promote her brand of religion through a hand picked religious guru like Tolle.

1. If possible, please stop personally flaming me.

2. I didn't make an objective scientific claim of his being awakened. I stated my personal criteria, based on my subjective experience. Nobody has to believe me or use the same criteria.

3. I wasn't comparing Tolle to Buddha or Jesus on a spiritual level, but only that it is very common for spiritual teachers to take or be given another name.

4. Should religious or spiritual belief and experiences be based on science?

5. Why is it sad that Oprah is promoting Tolle? Are televangelists criticized on this forum for promoting (via television) a specific brand of Christianity? Can someone point me to those discussions. What about someone like Dr. Phil?

Tolle stated on Oprah that he once took LSD. He said that it was nothing like the experience(s) he is talking about in his books or talks and that it was, in his opinion, a very violent experience and not recommended.

Mr. Tolle is in a relationship and living with a woman. His comments on the subject of relationships, I have gathered, are from a lot discussions he has had with people who have come to him with problems in this area. Also, he has stated that his parents also had a very difficult marriage.

csp:

"Flaming" is not pointing out what you have claimed through previous posts to support your apologies and/or arguments.

Oprah is supposedly a talk-show host, not a televangelist.

Dr. Phil is a Ph.D. psychologist.

Promoting personal religious beliefs through an entertainment talk show format may be what Oprah does now, but that was not the original intent of her program.

Tolle doesn't seem stable or credible, based upon his biographical information.

You have certainly made the case that accepting Tolle is believing in a religious belief system, based upon subjective feelings and emotional needs, rather than anything objective or scientific.

You have also demonstrated, assuming that your professional claims are true, that education and training don't preclude people being taken in by gurus like Tolle.