Hello Everyone,

Meditation, mystical magic wonder practice, utilising breathing techniques and other modes... we are all led to believe that meditation is our ‘connection to spirit’ or ‘god’, however there is some very simple reality to the practice that you should not continue to read if you are happy in your current state - same as with any debunking post.

This is the bit that they don’t tell you.

When we sit to meditate, we do one thing, we engage the parasympathetic nervous system when the sympathetic nervous system is, or has been running the show.

Follow the link to quickly learn what the sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous systems are responsible for in your very own body and brain.

[byjus.com]

When we meditate, we are activating the more desirable feeling states whilst effectively shutting down others and training them out of action when one day we might need it most.

We may not be running from predators such as wild animals or perhaps dinosaurs these days, though there are plenty of modern needs for our system and one of those is most definitely the dark triad of personalities that continue to exist in reality today.

Consider this too, if the ashram or
teacher are teaching that meditative peaceful states are all that is necessary, yet also teaching that the world will come to an end soon, to reset with only you and other attendees or specific numbers surviving, then switching off the fight or flight of the sympathetic nervous system makes no sense because survivors will have to survive all over again, just as we have already done in order to get to this point here today.

Take good care !



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/02/2020 03:39AM by facet.

Here is the next part of debunking meditation.

After realising our connection to our own bodies in a perhaps different way now, there is no denying that our brain chemistry is what leads us to experience things that we might consider as paranormal, or magical.

We will often have people back our very real experiences up by telling us that it is a spiritual experience or by others going along with the story, which can act as a confirmation of an experienced reality, when really it is our brain chemistry has been the culprit.

During traumatic experiences and near death experiences, many stories have been told of ‘life flashing before eyes’, ‘angels’, ‘Visitations’, ‘messages’, etc, and during meditation the same is often witnessed.

Our brains are so important, which is why tinkering with things like narcotic drugs is so debilitating. Drugs suddenly and greatly affect our chemistry, as does trauma, stress, food, and even meditation, point being that our brain chemistry is what alters our perception and feeling.

Meditation is another way of reaching ecstatic states of intimacy. This happens in the same way as intimacy with another via chemical releases, so when the meditator claims brahmacarya, but meditates.. they are still in for the good feelings, meditators are just doing it differently.

When meditating, we can often go to far (easy to do when it feels so good) and shut down essential components necessary to human life so that it may be lived without glitches. Our chemistry is changed, and not always for the best.

Hyper sensitivity and hyper focus in various forms ensue, with our perception of reality often not being able to function optimally for the time that we are in. The natural ability to live a daily life becomes excruciating and makes running away to an isolated cave, perhaps with the company of some bats, seem highly attractive.

In 2020 (time of writing this post) at least, maybe it will come across that this way of being might not be the best option.

Meditation can still be a helpful self care tool, just so long as it is not used as a means to adapt to abusive situations, and that we all remember that we are working with the natural human system.. not the gods or any other ideal connection to power that might keep us from remembering our own.

I think this is my final post here in recovery, so I wish everybody well and I know that a lot of what I have posted about recovery has likely already been said across this forum over the years.. it might have been a bit old hat, though I can literally credit much of what I have said to the limbic resonance that I knew I needed, which led me to sign up.

Recovery is really complete when you can expose yourself to some of the problematic people / materials and be wholly outraged by them, when before you would not have thought much about it, and perhaps not having to be restrictive or pray over your food anymore. For me personally this bit is done.. no more exposure needed. It is time to leave these cults behind :-).



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 08/09/2020 11:14PM by facet.

Facet - congratulations on the success of your recovery. I help teach mindfulness meditation, and one of my friends is a sober companion, interventionist and meditator (and sober for more than 10 years) - we often work together learning from each other how best to teach meditation to persons in recovery. It has been my experience that sober folk are keen to meditate, but it must be very carefully considered. I have often stopped or postponed training for people (usually less than 2 years sober) and advised movement-based activities to start.

I have a couple of comments about some of the things you posted, based on my research and what I've been taught throughout the years:

When we meditate, we are activating the more desirable feeling states whilst effectively shutting down others and training them out of action when one day we might need it most.

In Buddhist mindfulness, we are training the Salient Network of the brain - those areas that we use to decide what we will pay attention to. We practice being okay with all feeling states that arise - pleasant or unpleasant - and noticing everything about them, but always coming back to our anchor (usually the breath). We are learning to tolerate the whole spectrum of sensations/feeling tone without being pushed around by them or seduced by them so much.

We will often have people back our very real experiences up by telling us that it is a spiritual experience or by others going along with the story, which can act as a confirmation of an experienced reality, when really it is our brain chemistry has been the culprit.

This is a good point, which comes up often in my classes where people have read about or experienced or want to experience the meditative "phenomena". Phenomena is something we also need to bring mindfulness to, especially because we have meaning-making minds. We are also seduced by body sensations or sounds or smells during meditation. The fact is, when we get still and begin to be aware of more subtle phenomena, we need to know that it's just what the body and mind do, and to not pay too much attention to it. The practice remains the same. So much happens below language and meditation indeed refines our perceptive abilities, but such events are not meaningful in themselves. If you practice for many years, these experiences are, like, "meh".

When meditating, we can often go to far (easy to do when it feels so good) and shut down essential components necessary to human life so that it may be lived without glitches. Our chemistry is changed, and not always for the best.

I'm not sure what you mean by "too far". If you mean dissociation, then that is not meditating - any practice that takes you away from your body is not good. Any pleasurable sensation that takes you away from your somatic awareness is not good.Proper technique will help you stay connected with your body and skillfully responsive rather than over or under reactive.


Hyper sensitivity and hyper focus in various forms ensue, with our perception of reality often not being able to function optimally for the time that we are in. The natural ability to live a daily life becomes excruciating and makes running away to an isolated cave, perhaps with the company of some bats, seem highly attractive.

This is definitely a concern when someone practices meditative technique that their physical body is not prepared for. When people try pranayama or breathwork or energetic manipulation without adequate preparation it can cause much difficulty - sleep problems, relationship problems, etc. Unfortunately, some of these symptoms are admired as a spiritual effect, when really they need some sort of therapy - psychotherapy, massage/bodywork, Chinese Medicine - something grounding to bring the mind and body back into harmony.

Negative experiences in meditation can be avoided if people keep things very simple, take it slow and avoid trying to get somewhere with it. It just keeps bringing us back to our ordinary humanness, anyway, and there's no escape from it.

Hi Resilient,

Thank you :-) and thank you so much for sharing your insights, which I enjoyed reading. I love to hear of different perspectives.

By “too far” I meant it from my own understanding and experience terms.. which I will try to explain in simple, non professional terms.

Looking at the average brain with capability for neuroplasticity, when meditating it is basically the reduction of activity on pre formed pathways, resultant in the eventual reduction and elimination of the pathways entirely.

Thoughts arising are the hyperfocus or current area of pathways most active at the time.

As meditators, we might recognise ourselves as remodelling those pathways, and in many cases, where “absolute emptiness”, or “the void”, or any blank related state is desirable, meditation simply serves to quit as many active pathways as possible.. both desirable and undesirable, as you mention.

Note: Changes in regular chemical balance that arise due to meditation are also a factor of where thoughts (which pathways are more active over others) might be.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/30/2020 09:08AM by facet.

Apologies, my point is.. that by decreasing active pathways, the thing that makes life rich and wonderful (brain) becomes underworked, and therefore, defunct.

Often my friends tell me that meditation is a particular activity that is only necessary for yogis and those who are seriously interested in spiritual practices. But in fact, I believe that meditation has long been transformed from a highly moral direction of Eastern culture into a convenient and practical activity available to everyone.

Yes. Meditation can simply be used as a form of relaxation and stress reduction.

It's when meditation becomes organized under the controlling influence of a leader and/or group that it may be potentially unsafe.

When people are in a trance we are much more suggestable and vulnerable. That's why it's important to be careful. A leader and/or group may manipulate people in the trance state.

Sorry for the spam but I would like to add a few more words.
I believe that meditation is necessary for absolutely all people, especially those who are in self-isolation. But I didn't always think so until I came across a brain dump site where I read some pretty interesting information that helped me figure out how to save my thoughts and ideas

Meditation is definitely interesting, but it can also have its adverse affects as with anything.

It also pays to recognise that meditation is not originally a part of everyone’s various cultures.. for some, meditation just isn’t something that they want or need to do.

For many today, meditation is simply a business - a paid for service to support someone’s financial / material needs.

People are often cajoled into believing that they are “wrong” for not partaking or even trying meditation.. some may then end up trying it out and wondering why it does not work for them, and feeling hurt as to why they were told that they were wrong for not trying.

I guess the same is seen with diet plans. There are various to choose from but there will always be that someone who thinks that they have the perfect diet formula to suit absolutely everyone - of course it won’t suit everyone, we are all individuals. One person may become unwell on one diet, while another person may not.

Not one person is wrong for not meditating, people can choose their own ways to look after themselves.

There is also a culture within practices that can be found in those who adhere strictly, where those who fail at it (meditation, yoga, vegetarian, vegan, breatharian etc etc) are doing it “wrong” and are the cause of the failure, making the person whom it does not work for “faulty”.

This, to me, would equate a massive failure to respect the individuality of the human being presenting, not to mention the dismissal of the persons own experiences as a valid, actual reality for them.

It is for these reasons I personally never recommend any practices (wether I partake in them myself or not), as well as the fact that meditation originates from various specific cultural roots. It has meaning for those whose families and communities connect and manage their own being in this way through lineage and tradition - at least in most of these real life instances, the practice or teaching of is nothing to do with any business model or money.

The only business anybodies practice is, is their own. Why it should be on public display or sent as something that everyone “should” do, is deeply questionable - this is me personally, if others want to share it, sell it, use it to manage health, this is ok.. this is my point of view through observation, it is not to be taken as gospel for everyone, and that others are doing bad or wrong because they do differently from myself.

The world would be a disaster if everybody did that.. oh, no, wait :D It is like that :D

Here is a short basic article about meditation origins:

[www.news-medical.net]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/27/2021 08:41PM by facet.