Quote
notanantiGnostic
It would also be good if we could create a network of ex Samaeleans, to support each other in a quest to find what we were really looking for when we got into Victor Gomez's (Samael Aun Weor) garbage teaching. Those involved in his teachings may hate one another, but those who have left it can come together.

I agree this would be very good. I wish more former Samaeleans would come out and speak out. Unfortunately there are also language barriers which prevent ex Samaeleans from comming all together. Also not all have acess to the internet.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/16/2009 04:53AM by Keir.

Quote
notanantiGnostic
Those involved in his teachings may hate one another, but those who have left it can come together.

Bravo!

Yes there is serious language barrier.

I have found one reference to an academic study of Victor Gomez's (Samael Aun Woer) teaching. The problem is that it is in Spanish and as you pointed out most people who are falling for his nonsense now are from the English speaking world.

Although you can see it if you read between the lines of his writings it would be great to be able to translate some of these books about him because we could likely provide evidence for his totalitarian, fundamentalist and fanatic origins in politics. His admiration for Adolf Hitler and his previous involvement in South American fascist politics.

From what I have read of his I have seen a few examples of his Fascist thinking, even his last writing which are the most cleaned up.

The very titles of the books Revolutionary psychology, psychological Rebellion and Revolution of the Dialectic are reactionary to the pro socialist environment he was writing in. As well as making a point against the science of psychology in an attempt to say that his work was the true psychology. Another example of how he read others work, took only the parts he liked and then made arguments for others not to look at that work.

The other one is the supposed test of honesty that you are supposed to experience while on the spiritual path. It is said that you will come across a circumstance where you will find money on the ground and the test will be that you leave the money on the ground, because it is not yours. This is really silly to me. It is a cultural biased experience. This test is supposedly a test of honesty. To me he seems to be more a support of private property then being about honestly. another example of how he is reacting to the Marxist idea of the workers taking things away from the wealthy.


then there is the stupid idea in Revolutionary Psychology that ants were once humans who because too involved in socialism (which to him implies a dictatorship) and their culture led to genetic engineering which led them to be this way. To me this story is an example of his mental disorder mixing with a dislike of science and left wing politics.

But unfortunately all we have to work with when we talk about Victor Gomez Sr. (Samael Aun Weor) is peoples stories and his primary sources.

If anyone has any ideas about translating or finding an academic interested in this problem would be appreciated.

Ok so after saying I couldn't find an academic book I found one that makes a reference to Ageac, I am not sure what that stands for but it is one of the samaelean groups. The book is called Healing or Stealing? By Jean-Marie Abgrall and you look at it on google books.

[books.google.ca]

There is the link, the reference starts on page 160 and goes to about 168. Although not all pages are viewable i thought it was a good start.

Here is another book, writing about The Gnostic Church in Brazil. This person gives what could be called an unbiased account of Samael Aun Weor.

[books.google.ca]

I think page 50 is the page to see. I haven't read the whole thing yet but i Thought i would pass the link along to others.

I was not that impressed with the last book but it is something quote on some details of Samael Aun Woer if you need it. The author gives way to much credit to him. It is really strange that free thinking new age authors can accept anything he said, since he goes against everything they stand for.

Here is a book that might be good that is referenced by google books if anyone can get their hands on it. Talks about the brainwashing techniques of the Samael Schools.

Quote
notanantiGnostic
Although you can see it if you read between the lines of his writings it would be great to be able to translate some of these books about him because we could likely provide evidence for his totalitarian, fundamentalist and fanatic origins in politics. His admiration for Adolf Hitler and his previous involvement in South American fascist politics.

From what I have read of his I have seen a few examples of his Fascist thinking, even his last writing which are the most cleaned up.

The very titles of the books Revolutionary psychology, psychological Rebellion and Revolution of the Dialectic are reactionary to the pro socialist environment he was writing in. As well as making a point against the science of psychology in an attempt to say that his work was the true psychology. Another example of how he read others work, took only the parts he liked and then made arguments for others not to look at that work.

The other one is the supposed test of honesty that you are supposed to experience while on the spiritual path. It is said that you will come across a circumstance where you will find money on the ground and the test will be that you leave the money on the ground, because it is not yours. This is really silly to me. It is a cultural biased experience. This test is supposedly a test of honesty. To me he seems to be more a support of private property then being about honestly. another example of how he is reacting to the Marxist idea of the workers taking things away from the wealthy.


then there is the stupid idea in Revolutionary Psychology that ants were once humans who because too involved in socialism (which to him implies a dictatorship) and their culture led to genetic engineering which led them to be this way. To me this story is an example of his mental disorder mixing with a dislike of science and left wing politics.

But unfortunately all we have to work with when we talk about Victor Gomez Sr. (Samael Aun Weor) is peoples stories and his primary sources.

If anyone has any ideas about translating or finding an academic interested in this problem would be appreciated.

Yes he was involved in extremist politics. He did also did form POSCLA -Latin American Christian Socialist Party.
He had to disolve it when it became a hinderance. Obviously when religious groups start forming political parties and getting into politics governments starts to take notice. Religion and Politics never seem to mix well together.

I find his "Revolutionary Psychology" to be nothing revolutionary at all. It reminds me alot of Scientology and a few other groups that messes with people's minds. Its really nothing new.
In my opinion his writing style are written as nothing but propanganda pieces. Its written in a polemic to either denounce other religion (or religious teachers) or aimed at any readers who might disagree with him. Alot of rhetoric etc. Of course people who hear propaganda rhetoric for long periods of time start believing in them (The Korean War & North Korea is a good example)

I think that ant business was crazy as well.

Even his "108 lives" he got wrong.
You know there are numerous associations to 108 not just related to Buddhism. This is only some.
Its used in far eastern Astrology in reference to 108 stars (among other things).
In vedic astrology there are 12 houses and 9 planets. 12 times 9 comes out to= 108
There are also 108 main energy points on the body.
He has nothing to do with the nonsence that he teaches.

Thanks for your supportive thoughts on that Keir,

I have seen it quoted in a few places about him starting the POSCLA but it would be good to have so sort of documentation to prove it. Also it would help to show that he was an admirer or Hitler or at least Nazi Germany. So you can say to people look there is the the evidence.

It is time that people realized that the writings of Samael Aun Weor belong on the same shelf mein keif. What i mean by that is a place where documents are only used for historical reasons.

Interesting that his teachings can be directly, in ideas anyways to those of Aleister Crowley someones whose teachings he definately goes against when he goes against sexual freedom and tolerance.

I agree with your comment of politics and religion making a poor mix. It really set of alarm bells for me when Mark Pritchard started praising military service in the question and answer section of one of his books. This seemed to really be in conflict with the idea of a world living in "awareness". But that is because he expect a planet the size of Jupiter (not knowing that the planet is a gas giant) is going to be thrown into the earth at some point because of the worlds refusal to work on "awareness".

This idea is an other example of something that was stolen from other people. It first taught to "Gnostics" by the one they called Robolu (can't remember his real name right now. But you can clearly see that the idea was spinning around with a number of people thinking about the end of the world.

There doesn't seem to be an original idea among these people and they also steal from people who don't very original ideas.

Check out: " Plataforma del P.O.S.C.L.A. (Partido Obrero Socialista Cristiano Latino-Americano)" (1967)

Robolu Joaquin Amortegui is just another former student/friend of weor. He broke away when weor died.
Theres a whole bunch of people who broke away.

They take alot of things from others and then turn around to back stab & denounce the short commings of these teachers. They degenerate all those religious teachers who become befor them and degenerate & degrade all those who disagree with them. (its a common tactic used by a number of cultish groups).



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/19/2009 11:31AM by Keir.

Thanks for that reference, Keir

It would be interesting to figure out how many people since Victor Gomez Sr. have declared themselves to be masters. I know of Joaquin Amortequi (Robolu) and Mark Pritchard. I would assume that his wife, Litelante (?) and his son, Osiris declared themselves masters of some sort.