"I used to marvel at the diversity you would see at almost any meeting, but now realize that most of those folks are people that I had nothing but sgi in common with, and wouldn't really choose to socialize with outside of the group."

I'm glad you brought that up - I'd never heard of "granfalloon" before. From your link:

A more general and oft-cited quote defines a granfalloon as "a proud and meaningless association of human beings."

It's sort of difficult to analogize, but I think it's sort of like people who like to go to art museums, who go frequently, all take the tour, all enjoy it - and then leave and never see/hear each other until the next visit. It was really odd for me - I expected that the "most ideal family-like organization" would be a natural source of friends, but I was quite mistaken about that. It was really bizarre, in fact. It's like they get together for the meeting or the study or whatever, and that's that.

And if YOU don't feel that's "ideal family-like", then there's obviously something wrong with YOU and you need to connect with Fatty the Toad and work HARDER for kosen-rufu! And stop being so damn selfish!!

Happy new years to you too, ST&P! We missed you - glad you are back. Hey, heard you gotted banned over on Reddit - is that true? I made a few posts over there, and there has been some reaction. One responder has requested links to information regarding the "billion" dollar assets of SGI. Do you have any links that would cover info on SGI's billions? Here's the last post I made over there - [www.reddit.com]

During my second stint with the cult.org in san antonio during the late eighties and early nineties, I introduced a fellow musician. He in turn shakabuku-ed so many people - most of them musicians or fellow stoners, that our circle of members grew quite rapidly. We became an exception to the usual cult rule (often hanging out together outside of cult.org activites.) We had a very tight little family of friends/musicians/members going for a while, and the local cult.org didn't like it at all. We threatened the cult leadership's total control over their members.

We were a small semi-rebellious lot, often questioning and resisting the cult bullcookies they were trying to feed everybody. We were viewed as troublemakers and of course, I was at the apex of our dissent and uncontrollability, often urging my "family" to think and practice independently of the cult.org. Thats when I dubbed myself "positionless leader" and set out to flaunt the psuedo-authority of the local cult leadership. As our group's patriarch, I frequently encouraged our rebellious little "family" to ignore the cult leadership rules and demands, and instead follow our own instincts and common sense, which didn't set too well with the cult.org. But they couldn't find a way to threaten me into submission, because I wouldn't take on any cult leadership positions. It was laughable to see them falling all over themselves, trying to figure out a way to keep me and our group in line. Their hypocritical attacks upon our free-spirited "family" became the driving force in my decision to step away from the cult for the second time.

Anyway, that was the closest thing to "family" I ever saw or heard of at SGIcult world. In general, the members/leaders could care less about you - unless you could provide an opportunity for them to gain more benefit (for instance, by chanting for you, putting you on the home visitation arm-twist list, etc).

Yes, Sgcult is a perfect example of "granfalloon". Perhaps with the exception of U.S. politicians and their faux political parties, I can't think of a more proud and meaningless bunch of people.

Spartacus



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/12/2014 12:33PM by Spartacus.

This is a great forum, it's encouraging to know that there are other ex- sgi members who have experienced the same bs from these sanctimonious and pompous sgi leaders as I have. Every time someone would ask why doesn't fat boy just chant to lose weight, the leader would answer by saying "thats daimoku fat", and that would be the end of that. Another time Mr. Williams loaned fat boy his handkerchief for something to spit into, later on Mr. Williams said he'd cherish the snot rag forever. It was many incidents such as these which led to the preponderance of the evidence and to the tipping point where I finally had to admit that sgi is indeed a cult of Ikeda worship.
Every now and then I'll run into an sgi cultie and observe them babble on and on about fat boy, like some kind of mentally unhinged schizophrenic out patient. There are two kinds of people you can't reason with, one is insane and the other is a cult member, and there's not much difference between the two.
The sad part is that most sgi members probably really believe there is such a thing as daimoku fat. Hope all of you have a great 2014.
Watchtower

Maybe a slightly more accurate is that those people who go to the museum together (who have zip else in common) try to form a friendship based on that and that alone outside of the museum - that's closer to a granfalloon. In "Cat's Cradle" (home of the original granfalloon), Vonnegut describes a woman who finds out she's from the same state as the narrator and quickly convinces herself that they should be BFFs forever.

I actually was able to form some friendships in NM like you describe, Spartacus . . . I still have one of them, who is the woman I semi-inadvertently encouraged to leave the group. I'm still friendly with a couple of the women from my district here (I had lunch with them on Friday, in fact), and they made it abundantly clear that they didn't give a rat's patoot whether I was a member or not. And that was the end of any sgi conversation.

Jeez. Sacred Spit, Daimoku Fat and a Magic Tooth. Why do people have trouble taking sgi seriously? Except for the daimoku fat part, it's really no different from pieces of the holy cross and Jesus' foreskin . . . all hooey.

Glad to see you're back ST&P! We've missed you here!

Welcome to the forum, Watchtower. I think that you will find, as I did, many wonderful people here that will help with healing the gaping holes that the SGI.cult energy vampires left in our spirits when we forced them to remove their sucking straws. Sounds like you might go way back to the over-the-top NSA days. I look forward to hearing more about your own history and experiences with the cult.org. You can read about some of my early years with NSA here: [spartacusrebel.weebly.com]

I'm curious about how you got that worship-revealing snot rag story - did you personally know Sadanaga? My NSA senior leader constantly promoted the idea to me that Williams was my "father", and that she was my "mother" - a warped idea (control propaganda actually) she pedaled under the banner of "faith".

"daimoku fat" is a new for me - after the slight shock wore off I had a good chuckle at that one. Just how ludicrous and ridiculous can the pompous cult.org leaders get with the dear leader worship? This relates to a blog I recently posted on the subject of Ikeda Worship over on Reddit. Here's a link if you wanna read it and check out the comments: [redd.it]

There sure is a lot of magic within in SGIcult World. It takes a lot of magical thinking to swallow the truckload of bull-cookies they feed the members and lower echelon leaders. IF you don't swallow their load (snark) and believe, well "your faith just isn't strong enough" - which is the mantra of every cult-assed religion.

All corrupt religious organizations become cults just as surely as all unrestrained governments become tyrannies (unrestrained being overwhelmingly a temporary state). Is there any real difference between the two? They both lust after the same things: power, control, and wealth. They both suck their existences from the lifeblood of the people they purport to serve and benefit. They are both afraid of investigative factions revealing how they actually operate behind closed doors. They are both terrified by and retaliate viciously when doubters/resistors stand up and speak out against the madness they want their masses to be accept as normal. They both for the sake of their elite, endeavor to enslave people and benefit/profit from their suffering.

I'm hard pressed to say which institution is more evil and destructive - but the combination of the two must be worst of all. Remember the bit about "when the people fear the government..."? Here's a little twist I synthesized from that infamous Jefferson quote, "When government and/or religion use fear to control people there is tyranny." Or more precisely, double tyranny! No wonder the Founding Fathers wanted to forever separate church and state. So tragic how our forefather's wisdom and vision has been so thoroughly corrupted in the modern era of cults.

Spartacus



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/13/2014 11:36AM by Spartacus.

Hey, Spartacus! Yeah, some chicken-poop a hole who is a mod on a poetry forum over at reddit used his influence to get me "shadow-banned." That means I can post and it looks to ME like everything is normal, but no one else can see my posts. Guess the taiten was too much for him... His knee-jerk response was the equivalent of "Nuh-UH!!!" and, when asked, he'd never provide a source. Even though, in response to his accusations of "lies" and "smear campaign," I always provided excerpts from SGI publications, quoting SGI leaders, that demonstrated what I had stated. Truly a disgusting individual.

Now, something I recently ran across - can't remember if it was in one of the posts that went bye-bye during the change-over, the SGI had to change its basic doctrines and tenets in the wake of the excommunication in 1/1991. I'd been a member since 1987, and I was a leader when the excommunication happened.

When we were told of the mass excommunication during a HQ leaders' meeting, I remember I felt like I'd been kicked in the teeth. One of the Big Topics that was repeatedly referred to was how close the SGI (NSA back then) and Nichiren Shoshu were, and how the SG's success was proof that Nichiren Shoshu was the only TRUE Nichiren school. In fact, the SG could not have enjoyed the success it did if it had not been affiliated with NS, the only correct Nichiren school (there are several).

Well, what I didn't realize until recently when I ran across something posted somewhere or other by a Japanese source was that, when NS excommunicated the SG and SGI, that invalidated SG and SGI's claims to religious incorporation. You see, NS owned the "trademark" on Nichiren Shoshu religion (doctrines and tenets) and, if NS said that SG/SGI was not acceptable, then SG/SGI could not claim to still be a religion on the basis of NS doctrines and tenets. SG/SGI would have to *CHANGE* their fundamental doctrines and tenets in order to claim religious incorporation on their own terms.

This was when "master and disciple," then the supposedly more politically correct "mentor and disciple," became all the rage. Oh, the beauty of the mentor and disciple relationship! Before, it had been the blessed unity of priesthood and laity. And Ikeda emerged even more strongly as a cult figurehead along the lines of the Rev. Sun Myung Moon (leader of the Moonies). More and more AND MORE of the organization's publications featured Ikeda - reports of his activities, his "writings" (no doubt ghostwritten by who knows who), and experience after experience telling of amazing breakthroughs and enviable benefits that magically accrued once the member internalized the eternal bond of mentor and disciple. At meetings, everyone focused on how important it was to share Senseless's "heart", to energetically study everything Senseless has ever written, and to try to grasp Senseless's "vision". In other words, to become extensions of Senseless instead of our own unique selves. To hell with cherry, peach, plum, and damson blossom!

I am, from time to time, when I can remember :} attempting to find a source that identifies and clearly lists exactly which doctrines were changed/replaced in order to form the new religion SG/SGI. So far, no go. I HAVE found some very interesting analyses/reports on SG's development in Japan, from outside. Even the sympathetic reports are damning. I'll post those in a bit - maybe tomorrow (it's getting late).

Hey, Spartacus! Do you know how to contact Hitch? I miss him!! He PMed me with a link to a hidden Youtube video of a later meeting with Ikeda, where he is bizarrely pounding on the table while I think it was Fred Zaitsu, that temporary SGI-USA national leader (until they could get Danny Nagashima properly installed), was trying to give his address - it was like that Seinfeld episode where they all go to the donut shop where Joe DiMaggio, the Yankee Clipper, was sitting (off camera) and dunking his donut in his coffee. There's some discussion whether that guy is the real deal, and Kramer demonstrates the guy's focus and concentration by banging on the table and yelping, while the guy in question apparently doesn't flinch.

That was a truly bizarre performance by Ikeda - it's like he figured "I can do whatever I want, no matter how strange, and my minions will just say, 'Didn't Sensei look youthful and energetic??'" He hasn't apparently been seen in public for quite some time - years? - so I'm wondering if he died and they're keeping him on ice somewhere (ick) until they can figure out how to spin it so that he will continue as a deity to be worshiped. I wonder if they'll try to mummify his bloated corpse.

Oh, and that Ikedabot douche over on reddit saw us referring to "NSA",and explaining exactly what it meant, that it was the early name for the US organization and only changed to "SGI-USA" in 1989, and insisted that we were TEMPLE MEMBERS!!! TEH HORREUR!!! The idiot couldn't wrap his mind around the fact that the danto organization is "NS*T*", not "NS*A*" and he clearly knew NOTHING of the organization's history, despite being its most fervent defender.

You know how the SGI routinely edits its history to change details or get rid of troublesome episodes/former leaders? The way it's been involved in an ongoing campaign to erase Mr. Williams from official SG history? You don't suppose the SGI-USA is now claiming it's had that name all along, do you? Anybody know anything?

Mr. Douchey McDouchepants also claimed that the "mentor and disciple" concept was supposed to be applied to *ANY* mentor. I provided quotes from Linda Johnson and Tariq Hasan where they both repeatedly referred to "OUR mentor in life, President Ikeda." It was shortly after that he accomplished the shadow-ban, and he was so stupid that he announced to the group that "one of the attackers" (me and meh) "has already been banned." So stupid, he couldn't resist gloating. I objected to the reddit mods, but nothing came of it, even though I had at least one Nichiren board mod's support.

Douche McDouchepants! Hahahahaha! Reddit is strange country, with some stranger fauna. Very touchy over there.

And yes, welcome Watchtower. This is a very well-informed and well-spoken group; I'm not sure if I would've made it over the wall as successfully as I have without them.

Watchtower, why did you choose that name? Is there a personal significance to it?

For any who aren't familiar, "The Watchtower" is the Jehovah's Witnesses publication that Jehovah's Witnesses try to unload onto complete strangers, often hoping to get money for it.