Re: Former SGI members
Posted by:
evergreen
()
Date: January 24, 2010 05:16PM
hey girls (and boys) - I think I need a few months more to say that I am in the clear after cutting off from SGI. I've already told tons of members and leaders that I'm done. No more nagging calls. Still working through this stuff with my parents. So I've left but it hasn't been even a year yet. I am still trying to figure out what I've learned. Right now its more like I'm running until they can't find me anymore. Its kinda like an addict that needs 6 months in order to prove they are clean. Once they pass the 6 months people take them more seriously and they are more likely not to use again. I think I posted a long time ago that I was more worried about what led me to be so vulnerable and manipulated by SGI. Now I'm more cognizant of not being so hard on myself. And I'm angry that SGI is hurting so many lives. As for the future - I know that I will have a hard time finding a faith cause I've tried several times to no avail. I don't want to be part of an "I'm enlightened your not" group. I will definitely look for the "law and not the person" as Nichijew has stated. weird and creepy love language will be a turn off. Video meetings with my mentor in life will be a no no. Forever Hentai songs will not be sung. you get the picture. No more cults allowed!
Re: Former SGI members
Posted by:
TheVoid
()
Date: January 24, 2010 10:59PM
Other things i found wrong were those people who insisted that 'they' were Soka Gakkai, Soka Gakkai is my life! I think this is another Cult trait making you think you are the organisation, so if you are it, how can it be wrong, because you are it!
there was this one guy, a total failure, except in SGI where he was YMD division leader in our area (what a fake way of making you think you have achieved something). This guy has Ikeda fan dance next to Butsudan and an enrolment letter to get into Soka university in front of Gohonzon. He didn't have a job, was depressed and didn't see he was not achieving much in life.
He chanted for ages to that letter so he would get a scholarship, did he get it? did he f-ck!
He once claimed that you would not miss a bus when you believed in SGI chanting. funny thing was I agreed to go to Kosen Rufu chanting sessions that they held on sundays, so i agree to meet this chap, as he knew the house we were going to, but we had to get a bus to get there. So this guy said he would sort out the bus times and we would go from his. guess what? No the bus wasn't late at all, he in fact took us to the bus stop where it transpired that even though he had 'sorted the bus timetable', the truth is the bus never came it was a sunday and the bus didn't travel that day, and with all his Buddhist wisdom, he couldn't even read the time table correctly.
So he panicked and he had to ring for a lift from one of the other Soka-bots, they came to pick us up, not too pleased. We all chanted, I ate biscuits and drank coffee, then they asked if i wanted to stay to see one of Ikedas video's coz he's so f-ing great. I didn't want to so i left, always had an excuse to leave, because even though these people claim to be your friends they don't know shit about you, apart from that personal stuff that gets brought up in meetings, and what ammunition that is for them, when trying to keep you in the cult.
Keep on Keeping on people!
there was this one guy, a total failure, except in SGI where he was YMD division leader in our area (what a fake way of making you think you have achieved something). This guy has Ikeda fan dance next to Butsudan and an enrolment letter to get into Soka university in front of Gohonzon. He didn't have a job, was depressed and didn't see he was not achieving much in life.
He chanted for ages to that letter so he would get a scholarship, did he get it? did he f-ck!
He once claimed that you would not miss a bus when you believed in SGI chanting. funny thing was I agreed to go to Kosen Rufu chanting sessions that they held on sundays, so i agree to meet this chap, as he knew the house we were going to, but we had to get a bus to get there. So this guy said he would sort out the bus times and we would go from his. guess what? No the bus wasn't late at all, he in fact took us to the bus stop where it transpired that even though he had 'sorted the bus timetable', the truth is the bus never came it was a sunday and the bus didn't travel that day, and with all his Buddhist wisdom, he couldn't even read the time table correctly.
So he panicked and he had to ring for a lift from one of the other Soka-bots, they came to pick us up, not too pleased. We all chanted, I ate biscuits and drank coffee, then they asked if i wanted to stay to see one of Ikedas video's coz he's so f-ing great. I didn't want to so i left, always had an excuse to leave, because even though these people claim to be your friends they don't know shit about you, apart from that personal stuff that gets brought up in meetings, and what ammunition that is for them, when trying to keep you in the cult.
Keep on Keeping on people!
Re: Former SGI members
Posted by:
tsukimoto
()
Date: January 24, 2010 11:28PM
Evergreen, I agree with what you said about not being so hard on yourself; it's an issue I've had too. It was a button that SGI leaders could push, making me feel that I wasn't working hard enough for SGI!
Your family practices -- and you've practiced since you were a child, right? Then I think, in that situation, it's so much harder to leave than it is for someone who joined as an adult.
Many of us who joined as adults have nonSGI friends and family who don't give a damn whether we stay in or quit -- and some friends and family may actually be happy that we're leaving SGI. So that's one pressure we don't have. We just don't have to worry that friends and family will reject us, worry about us, or try to talk us into staying.
You've mentioned addiction -- alcoholics or other drug addicts who want to quit drinking/using are often advised to avoid friends and family who are drinking and using. It only makes sense. My situation is similar to that of an alcoholic who wants to quit drinking -- and who has friends and family who don't drink. Yours is similar to that of an alcoholic whose friends and family all drink and see no need to stop, which is just so much harder.
Plus, SGI had so many more years to manipulate you and teach you to see the world through SGI-eyes -- and to do it when you were too young to really question what you were taught. Kids DON'T have the critical-thinking skills that adults have. The part of the brain that deals with common sense and risk assessment does not fully mature until the midtwenties. This is why tobacco companies traditionally did go after teenagers instead of older people. If you don't smoke by your midtwenties, the odds are incredibly low that you ever will.
So really, instead of asking why you were vulnerable to SGI -- give yourself credit for courage and open-mindedness. You are strong and insightful to be able to question SGI and leave it. There are probably lots of other "fortune kids" who would like to quit too but can't bring themselves to do it.
Your family practices -- and you've practiced since you were a child, right? Then I think, in that situation, it's so much harder to leave than it is for someone who joined as an adult.
Many of us who joined as adults have nonSGI friends and family who don't give a damn whether we stay in or quit -- and some friends and family may actually be happy that we're leaving SGI. So that's one pressure we don't have. We just don't have to worry that friends and family will reject us, worry about us, or try to talk us into staying.
You've mentioned addiction -- alcoholics or other drug addicts who want to quit drinking/using are often advised to avoid friends and family who are drinking and using. It only makes sense. My situation is similar to that of an alcoholic who wants to quit drinking -- and who has friends and family who don't drink. Yours is similar to that of an alcoholic whose friends and family all drink and see no need to stop, which is just so much harder.
Plus, SGI had so many more years to manipulate you and teach you to see the world through SGI-eyes -- and to do it when you were too young to really question what you were taught. Kids DON'T have the critical-thinking skills that adults have. The part of the brain that deals with common sense and risk assessment does not fully mature until the midtwenties. This is why tobacco companies traditionally did go after teenagers instead of older people. If you don't smoke by your midtwenties, the odds are incredibly low that you ever will.
So really, instead of asking why you were vulnerable to SGI -- give yourself credit for courage and open-mindedness. You are strong and insightful to be able to question SGI and leave it. There are probably lots of other "fortune kids" who would like to quit too but can't bring themselves to do it.
Re: Former SGI members
Posted by:
tsukimoto
()
Date: January 25, 2010 12:53AM
Here's an interesting video -- a Princeton PhD scholar who went to Japan to study SGI in Japan -- from SGI Unofficial.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The presenter on this video is a non-SGI member who studied the SGI, primarily
in Japan. I found it to be an interesting and somewhat different video on the
subject. His presentation begins right after the introduction which is a little
bit long, so if that is boring, just skip to his speech.
June 11, 2009
Levi McLaughlin, a Princeton Ph.D. candidate in Religion and one of the three
2009 Hoffman Scholars, describes his dissertation research during the 2009
Hoffman Scholars Honors Presentation.
[www.youtube.com]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The video itself is over a half hour long. McLaughlin himself does not begin speaking until 7:52. He gives a history of the Soka Gakkai from about 9:30 to 19:48. For me, the best part was 19:49 on, where he speaks of SGI in Japan today.
One interesting point he made was that SGI in Japan really is a nation within a nation -- with its own leaders, government, education, economy and media. McLaughlin defines a nation as a group of people with its own specific culture, mission, ideals and values, that can transcend the actual borders of a country. For example, a nomadic people can be considered a nation if the group shares an indentity, culture, and values.
Around SGI Headquarters in Tokyo, SGI even has its own currency, which can be used in businesses around headquarters. Elite Young Men's Division members are trained in security -- and have the latest surveillance equipment.
SGI Japan made its greatest growth between the 1950's and 1970's -- also a time of great economic growth and change for Japan. The Japanese who joined SGI tended to be poor and disenfranchised. They often were poor rural people who migrated into cities looking for work.
These people and their families lacked connections, opportunity, education. As McLaughlin says, SGI offered them "an alternative route to belonging," and "social and cultural legitimacy within "an educational framework." SGI instructed these individuals in both Japanese Buddhist philosophy -- and also exposed them to western philosophy -- Kant, Emerson, Thoreau, Dewey. SGI founded the Soka Schools system, as well as art galleries and museums. Ikeda published his poetry in SGI publications, and wrote rambling essays quoting European, American, and Chinese writers and philosophers. This was really the first time many of these working-class Japanese had been exposed to such ideas.
As McLaughlin says, SGI Japan's peak growth coincided with the Japanese economy's peak growth. Members' personal fortunes grew during this period -- for which members credited SGI. Now, many of the SGI Japan members are second or third-generation SGI -- and solidly middle class. So how does SGI continue to keep, and motivate these members?
McLaughlin chose to focus his research on Japan. He thinks that SGI is different in each country. I agree. SGI is expanding into former communist countries, Russia and Eastern Europe, and into Africa. Prospective members in these countries may be much like the postwar Japanese members -- desperate for something to help them deal with poverty, disenfranchisement, and a rapidly changing society.
What does SGI mean to those of us who are living in North America or Western Europe? Or more recent SGI-Japan converts? SGI-USA has attracted a mix -- minority and low-income members, along with middle-class professionals. Our motivations for joining seem to be all over the board -- dealing with difficulties, but the exact nature of the difficulties varies. Which may be why the Japanese leadership seems to find American members so confounding!
This comes back to Sushigrl's question. Why did we join and stay in SGI? That middle class people are not exempt from feeling disenfranchised and longing for a sense of community, that a decent job and a house in the 'burbs are not enough? A need for structure and a greater sense of purpose?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The presenter on this video is a non-SGI member who studied the SGI, primarily
in Japan. I found it to be an interesting and somewhat different video on the
subject. His presentation begins right after the introduction which is a little
bit long, so if that is boring, just skip to his speech.
June 11, 2009
Levi McLaughlin, a Princeton Ph.D. candidate in Religion and one of the three
2009 Hoffman Scholars, describes his dissertation research during the 2009
Hoffman Scholars Honors Presentation.
[www.youtube.com]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The video itself is over a half hour long. McLaughlin himself does not begin speaking until 7:52. He gives a history of the Soka Gakkai from about 9:30 to 19:48. For me, the best part was 19:49 on, where he speaks of SGI in Japan today.
One interesting point he made was that SGI in Japan really is a nation within a nation -- with its own leaders, government, education, economy and media. McLaughlin defines a nation as a group of people with its own specific culture, mission, ideals and values, that can transcend the actual borders of a country. For example, a nomadic people can be considered a nation if the group shares an indentity, culture, and values.
Around SGI Headquarters in Tokyo, SGI even has its own currency, which can be used in businesses around headquarters. Elite Young Men's Division members are trained in security -- and have the latest surveillance equipment.
SGI Japan made its greatest growth between the 1950's and 1970's -- also a time of great economic growth and change for Japan. The Japanese who joined SGI tended to be poor and disenfranchised. They often were poor rural people who migrated into cities looking for work.
These people and their families lacked connections, opportunity, education. As McLaughlin says, SGI offered them "an alternative route to belonging," and "social and cultural legitimacy within "an educational framework." SGI instructed these individuals in both Japanese Buddhist philosophy -- and also exposed them to western philosophy -- Kant, Emerson, Thoreau, Dewey. SGI founded the Soka Schools system, as well as art galleries and museums. Ikeda published his poetry in SGI publications, and wrote rambling essays quoting European, American, and Chinese writers and philosophers. This was really the first time many of these working-class Japanese had been exposed to such ideas.
As McLaughlin says, SGI Japan's peak growth coincided with the Japanese economy's peak growth. Members' personal fortunes grew during this period -- for which members credited SGI. Now, many of the SGI Japan members are second or third-generation SGI -- and solidly middle class. So how does SGI continue to keep, and motivate these members?
McLaughlin chose to focus his research on Japan. He thinks that SGI is different in each country. I agree. SGI is expanding into former communist countries, Russia and Eastern Europe, and into Africa. Prospective members in these countries may be much like the postwar Japanese members -- desperate for something to help them deal with poverty, disenfranchisement, and a rapidly changing society.
What does SGI mean to those of us who are living in North America or Western Europe? Or more recent SGI-Japan converts? SGI-USA has attracted a mix -- minority and low-income members, along with middle-class professionals. Our motivations for joining seem to be all over the board -- dealing with difficulties, but the exact nature of the difficulties varies. Which may be why the Japanese leadership seems to find American members so confounding!
This comes back to Sushigrl's question. Why did we join and stay in SGI? That middle class people are not exempt from feeling disenfranchised and longing for a sense of community, that a decent job and a house in the 'burbs are not enough? A need for structure and a greater sense of purpose?
Re: Former SGI members
Posted by:
Nichijew
()
Date: January 25, 2010 01:37AM
Dear All"
First, welcome Void. I see you posted a couple of comments on my blog. I need all the help I can get, if you know what I mean and your comments are quite welcome there too.
I was a District Chief and my wife was a Group Chief. One day my ten year old son and me opened a large storage closet that we had never opened before and a literal avalanche of liquor, wine, and beer bottles and cans, thousands of them came raining down us . My wife was drinking 2 fifths of Vodka a day and twelve to twenty four budweisers a day plus. It took us three hours to clean out the closet and place all the bottles and cans in large black trash bags. Subsequently, my wife also was found to have hepatitis C and cirrhosis. The doctor gave my wife 1 year if she didn't stop drinking and five years if she did, because she already had cirrhosis. All the while I chanted every day for my wife and she never lost her faith in Namu Myoho renge kyo. However, of course, I told her to get guidance with Ms. Kasahara, the top New York Women's Division leader. The first thing I asked Ms. Kasahara, was the guidance session to be held in the strictest confidence? She said, "of course, it is the way of the Gakkai to never disclose anything about the member's private life". I was satisfied and brought my wife to talk to her. The guidance was pure canned SGI Ikeda rah, rah, you can do it following Sensei and the Soka Gakkai and doing more and more Soka Gakkai activities. Of course, within a week, everyone from the Woman's Division District Leader to the Mens Division Territory Leader knew everything about my wife and me. We felt utterly betrayed but since we believed, SGI was the only Lotus Sutra based sect, we continued to do SGI activities. That was twenty years ago and to make a long story short, she continued to drink until we left SGI for good and she hasn't had one drink in thirteen of the last fourteen years, since we joined a real Buddhist group. Never once did she become jaundiced although one day, about three years after leaving the Soka Gakkai she relapsed. Her blood sugar went down to 9 and we rushed her to the hospital. The doctors said, sorry Dr. Rogow, no one has ever recovered from a blood sugar of 9. After two amps of sugar, she awoke. I didn't have insurance at the time and she was in the hospital for ten days, three of them in the ICU. The bill was thirty thousand dollars that I didn't have. I chanted for the money to pay off my debt. Every day we got calls from the hospital billers. Then one day the calls stopped. The hospital suddenly shut their doors, every last department, including the billing department disbanded. To conclude my wife is in excellent health, and alcohol free. There is no doubt in my mind, had we remained in the Soka Gakkai she would be dead.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/25/2010 01:40AM by Nichijew.
First, welcome Void. I see you posted a couple of comments on my blog. I need all the help I can get, if you know what I mean and your comments are quite welcome there too.
I was a District Chief and my wife was a Group Chief. One day my ten year old son and me opened a large storage closet that we had never opened before and a literal avalanche of liquor, wine, and beer bottles and cans, thousands of them came raining down us . My wife was drinking 2 fifths of Vodka a day and twelve to twenty four budweisers a day plus. It took us three hours to clean out the closet and place all the bottles and cans in large black trash bags. Subsequently, my wife also was found to have hepatitis C and cirrhosis. The doctor gave my wife 1 year if she didn't stop drinking and five years if she did, because she already had cirrhosis. All the while I chanted every day for my wife and she never lost her faith in Namu Myoho renge kyo. However, of course, I told her to get guidance with Ms. Kasahara, the top New York Women's Division leader. The first thing I asked Ms. Kasahara, was the guidance session to be held in the strictest confidence? She said, "of course, it is the way of the Gakkai to never disclose anything about the member's private life". I was satisfied and brought my wife to talk to her. The guidance was pure canned SGI Ikeda rah, rah, you can do it following Sensei and the Soka Gakkai and doing more and more Soka Gakkai activities. Of course, within a week, everyone from the Woman's Division District Leader to the Mens Division Territory Leader knew everything about my wife and me. We felt utterly betrayed but since we believed, SGI was the only Lotus Sutra based sect, we continued to do SGI activities. That was twenty years ago and to make a long story short, she continued to drink until we left SGI for good and she hasn't had one drink in thirteen of the last fourteen years, since we joined a real Buddhist group. Never once did she become jaundiced although one day, about three years after leaving the Soka Gakkai she relapsed. Her blood sugar went down to 9 and we rushed her to the hospital. The doctors said, sorry Dr. Rogow, no one has ever recovered from a blood sugar of 9. After two amps of sugar, she awoke. I didn't have insurance at the time and she was in the hospital for ten days, three of them in the ICU. The bill was thirty thousand dollars that I didn't have. I chanted for the money to pay off my debt. Every day we got calls from the hospital billers. Then one day the calls stopped. The hospital suddenly shut their doors, every last department, including the billing department disbanded. To conclude my wife is in excellent health, and alcohol free. There is no doubt in my mind, had we remained in the Soka Gakkai she would be dead.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/25/2010 01:40AM by Nichijew.
Re: Former SGI members
Posted by:
sushigrl
()
Date: January 25, 2010 09:49AM
"of course, it is the way of the Gakkai to never disclose anything about the member's private life". Wow!! How disgusting that leader was. I am so glad your wife made it out alive. The culture of the Gagkai puts a lot of stress on people, and this "respond to Ikeda with your life" makes it that much worse.
Re: Former SGI members
Posted by:
quiet one
()
Date: January 25, 2010 11:55AM
Nichijew, I am so very happy that everything worked out good for you and your wife. Being a member of SGI causes much stress and anxiety.
Re: Former SGI members
Posted by:
Nichijew
()
Date: January 25, 2010 01:53PM
Dear Quietonel:
Thank you so much for your well wishes. Of course, as Buddhists, we will never abdicate our responsibility for our own karmic retribution. It is thanks to the Lotus Sutra that we were able to lessen it.
Thank you so much for your well wishes. Of course, as Buddhists, we will never abdicate our responsibility for our own karmic retribution. It is thanks to the Lotus Sutra that we were able to lessen it.
Re: guys!!
Posted by:
DavidM
()
Date: January 27, 2010 12:07AM
Quote
Yzak
Here are 2 very informative clips against SGI, a very exotic ones
[www.youtube.com]
[www.youtube.com]
comments anybody?!
I've been scrollin through this whole thread again, just so say the above videos (originally posted on page 64) have been removed, for some reason...
Re: Former SGI members
Posted by:
tsukimoto
()
Date: January 27, 2010 05:36AM
From www.fraughtwithperil.com, Kempon Hokke Blog, Mark Rogow
--------------------------------Beginning of Quote----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Soka Gakkai's Teachings on benefit: Quotes from Josei Toda, second president of SGI
"When I meet you, I don't ask: "Are you keeping faith?" The reason is that I take your shakubuku for granted. What I really want to ask you is how your business is, whether you are making money, and if you are healthy. Only when all of you receive divine benefits do I feel happy. A person who says "I keep faith; I conduct shakubuku" when he is poor - I don't consider him my pupil. Your faith has only one purpose: to improve your business and family life. Those who talk about "faith" and do not attend to their business are sacrilegious. Business is a service to the community. I will expel those of you who do nothing but shakubuku without engaging in business." Josei Toda
"How can we live happily in this world and enjoy life? If anyone says he enjoys life without being rich and even when he is sick - he is a liar. We've got to have money and physical vigor, and underneath all we need is life force. This we cannot get by theorizing or mere efforts as such. You can't get it unless you worship a gohonzon...It may be irreverent to use this figure of speech, but a gohonzon is a machine that makes you happy. How to use this machine? You conduct five sittings of prayer in the morning and three sittings in the evening and shakubuku ten people. Let's make money and build health and enjoy life to our hearts' content before we die!"
------------------------------End of Quote-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There you have it. The writing was on the wall, even in the 1950's. In the words of Toda himself, SGI was never about faith, Buddhism or enlightenment. It was about money and worldly success, telling people that they could have whatever they wanted, if they followed SGI's directions.
You can't enjoy life without being rich? That's hardly Buddhist, but Toda said exactly that.
If you practice, but don't manage to become a success story that SGI can point to as proof that the practice really works -- then SGI has no use for you. What good are you if you can't give SGI money to invest in real estate and the stock market?
President Toda said "Let's make money and build health and enjoy life to our hearts' content...."
The irony was that Toda died at the age of 58. For most of his adult life, he suffered from pancreatic and liver problems, and diabetes, despite his dedication to SGI. (Daniel B. Montgomery, "Fire in the Lotus.")
--------------------------------Beginning of Quote----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Soka Gakkai's Teachings on benefit: Quotes from Josei Toda, second president of SGI
"When I meet you, I don't ask: "Are you keeping faith?" The reason is that I take your shakubuku for granted. What I really want to ask you is how your business is, whether you are making money, and if you are healthy. Only when all of you receive divine benefits do I feel happy. A person who says "I keep faith; I conduct shakubuku" when he is poor - I don't consider him my pupil. Your faith has only one purpose: to improve your business and family life. Those who talk about "faith" and do not attend to their business are sacrilegious. Business is a service to the community. I will expel those of you who do nothing but shakubuku without engaging in business." Josei Toda
"How can we live happily in this world and enjoy life? If anyone says he enjoys life without being rich and even when he is sick - he is a liar. We've got to have money and physical vigor, and underneath all we need is life force. This we cannot get by theorizing or mere efforts as such. You can't get it unless you worship a gohonzon...It may be irreverent to use this figure of speech, but a gohonzon is a machine that makes you happy. How to use this machine? You conduct five sittings of prayer in the morning and three sittings in the evening and shakubuku ten people. Let's make money and build health and enjoy life to our hearts' content before we die!"
------------------------------End of Quote-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There you have it. The writing was on the wall, even in the 1950's. In the words of Toda himself, SGI was never about faith, Buddhism or enlightenment. It was about money and worldly success, telling people that they could have whatever they wanted, if they followed SGI's directions.
You can't enjoy life without being rich? That's hardly Buddhist, but Toda said exactly that.
If you practice, but don't manage to become a success story that SGI can point to as proof that the practice really works -- then SGI has no use for you. What good are you if you can't give SGI money to invest in real estate and the stock market?
President Toda said "Let's make money and build health and enjoy life to our hearts' content...."
The irony was that Toda died at the age of 58. For most of his adult life, he suffered from pancreatic and liver problems, and diabetes, despite his dedication to SGI. (Daniel B. Montgomery, "Fire in the Lotus.")
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