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obsidian
My b/f wasn't a lifelong member. He just joined back in January. However, he was pulled in very fast. By April, he was no longer himself. When I contested SGI, he would say that I was closed-minded and negative. I never gave him an ultimatum, because he recognized it himself. He knew that it was either SGI or me. Sadly, he decided that SGI was what he wanted in his life. He loved me, but he couldn't be with me anymore, because our "personalities" were too different. I know this isn't what you want to hear, but the chances are slim to none that you will be able to get him to leave the cult. All of my b/f's friends and family were against the cult, but it still didn't stop him. Your b/f's family is all part of SGI, so he would probably leave you, before he left SGI. That's the unfortunate truth. If you give him the ultimatum, he will go seek advice from senior members, who will tell him to chant for your happiness and advise him to let you go. That's what happened in my case. The senior member told my b/f that I wasn't right for him and he should just chant for my happiness. We broke up in May, because I couldn't take it anymore. SGI is the only important thing in their lives. You don't want to be in a relationship with someone like that. Even if you accept him being in the cult, would you want your children to be raised in the same environment? I wouldn't think so. It may be extremely painful, but there's not much you can do. He has to realize it on his own and sadly from reading the posts on here, sometimes that doesn't happen for years, or at all.

I read something on the "Wright Institute for Lifelong Learning" thread on the "Large Group Awareness Forum" that reminds me of this:

The thing about a cult is that the people in it do not believe that it is a cult. They are intelligent, idealistic people passionate about something, and under the mind control of another...one of the confusing things was that I could look around at the people in the Institute -- beautiful, intelligent, successful people, and ask, how could they all be so misled?" (written by Grateful I'm Out.)

This was so true of me in my early days in SGI, and so true of my acquaintances who are still in SGI....NOTHING could have convinced me, or them, that SGI was a cult, nor that we were being manipulated. We considered ourselves smart, successful people who were passionate about Buddhism and world peace. Mind control? Us? No way! We did NOT believe that we were in a cult....so we certainly wouldn't have believed that we needed to get out.

The Byron Katie thread has also been eye-opening. Recent pages have discussed how easy it can be to influence people -- without them even realizing it. It also discusses how most of us cannot see -- and WILL NOT admit -- how easily we can be influenced by someone else. And then when someone tries to tell you that some group or individual is manipulating you....you will become angry at that person who's trying to warn you, and insist "NO, NOBODY is manipulating me! I can make my own decisions!" You defend your group all the more. As Grateful I'm Out also said, "My husband's resistance (to the Wright Institute) just made me want to prove that he was wrong."

Tsukimoto


This was so true of me in my early days in SGI, and so true of my acquaintances who are still in SGI....NOTHING could have convinced me, or them, that SGI was a cult, nor that we were being manipulated. We considered ourselves smart, successful people who were passionate about Buddhism and world peace. Mind control? Us? No way! We did NOT believe that we were in a cult....so we certainly wouldn't have believed that we needed to get out.

THis is so true. 4-5 months ago, when I didn't know how serious my problem is, i told him 'such cults brainwash people'. First he laughed, then got furious and said "Do you think that thousands of SGI members all over the globe are simply fools?'. ANd i made a promise not to talk about SGI. Never ever.

SGI for him is like a family, looks so saccharine. All of them are friendly and nice, caring and they come to your house if you don't come to the meetings, may be you are ill? They care about you. If you didn't pick up your phone, again, they'll come to your house. May be you broke your arm and can't talk over the phone? if so, let's have the next meeting in your house?
Isn't that nice? Has anyone of you ever imagined such care and kindness?

Logical answers 'they don't want to let you quit SGI', 'they think not picking a phone is a first step to taiten' don't work.

I really think those who come to your house, themselves don't realise what they are doing. they probably think 'we care about him. his behavior will be disapproved of. we need to make sure he is on the right path'.

Does anybody know about SGI in Islamic countries? Was SGi's ass kicked off from there?

Obsidian

May be it is a bad comparison, but having an SGI boyfriends is like dating a drug addict. Thanks to this forum I finally understood it's almost impossible to get him out of SGI. he doesn't want to. he saw me reading a taiten forum in Japanese and just smiled. And said 'I can't even imagine the reason why people go taiten'.

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Deltide
Tsukimoto
Obsidian

May be it is a bad comparison, but having an SGI boyfriends is like dating a drug addict. Thanks to this forum I finally understood it's almost impossible to get him out of SGI. he doesn't want to. he saw me reading a taiten forum in Japanese and just smiled. And said 'I can't even imagine the reason why people go taiten'.

It's not a bad comparison. You feel the same kind of pain, when your b/f- the person who supposedly loves you- would rather go to an SGI meeting, than be with you. It's heartbreaking. I would rather my b/f be a drug addict. At least you can prove that drugs are harmful and there are a lot of good resources to help with drug addiction. Unfortunately, for a cult that masquerades as a religion, there is no help and understanding. Instead, people look at you with pity and change the subject, because it is taboo to speak of it. There is no scientific proof that cults are bad for you. There are no flashy phamplets or support groups. When it comes to having a loved one in a cult, all you can do is sitting idly by and watch them self-destruct. You're right. SGI is very similar to a drug. They are addicted to it. They need it to survive and it slowly changes them into someone that is merely a shadow of who they use to be.

Thank you for all your support. I can't believe that even if I only attended two meetings it really affected me so bad because of the brainwashing that my 'friend' was trying to do to me.
Can somebody please tell me why do members from SGI need to put offerings to the area around the Gohonzon? And what kind of offerings they need to put? What do you do with the water or the apple after you offer it? Do you eat it or do you throw it away? Isn't it silly? Buddha himself never wanted to be worshiped!
Thank you for all your comments. I appreciate you all!

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Awaken7
Can somebody please tell me why do members from SGI need to put offerings to the area around the Gohonzon? And what kind of offerings they need to put? What do you do with the water or the apple after you offer it? Do you eat it or do you throw it away? !

SGI and Nichiren Shoshu members put the following things on their altars (which can be just a small stand or end table -- I had a really broke friend who used a cardboard box as his altar.):

1. The Butsudan, the box that contains the Gohonzon (a scroll that we look at when we chant).

2. A vase with branches from some kind of green plant, In Japan, many members use a plant called "O-shikimi." In other parts of the world, you use whatever green plant you can get. If it's winter, or you're someplace where you don't have access to greenery, you can use plastic or silk leaves. Evergreens symbolize eternity; they can survive and be green even in a harsh winter. This reminds us that the Buddha and our lives are eternal. We can have the Buddha nature within us even in harsh circumstances. Some religions put flowers on their altars; SGI/Nichiren Shoshu don't, because flowers live a short time and die.

3. A cup of water. Water nourishes and sustains our lives, and cleans and purifies -- as does our spirituality. You fill the cup with fresh water every morning, and take it off in the evening. You can drink the water, put it in the dog's water dish, water your plants with it...whatever you want. India, where Buddhism originated, is a very hot country and drinkable water is especially precious there -- offering someone water was an act of the kindness and hospitality that a good Buddhist should strive for.

4. A small bit of non-animal food. Most places, this is fruit. Some of my Japanese friends put a small dish of cooked rice, covered on their altars. Food sustains our lives...as does our faith. You take the food off of the altar before it goes bad and eat it. I think that another reason we put food and water on our altars is that as humans, in a human body, we need these things -- and in this Buddhism, we also believe that we can achieve enlightenment in our physical bodies, as humans. We don't have to die and become spirits and only then become enlightened.

5. Incense, which we burn while chanting. I remember being told that, as the smell of incense spreads through the room, the truth and fragrance of Buddhism spreads through the universe.

6. Candles, which are lit while we are chanting. Light takes away darkness, and helps us to see, as Buddhism does -- light is symbolic of wisdom and truth.

So really, a lot of these offerings are symbolic, metaphoric --that faith can be like water, to clean and purify us, like food, to nourish us, like light, to show us the way. Other religions use some of the very same symbols -- the menorah to celebrate Hanukkah, pagans burning the Yule log to celebrate the Winter Solstice. I believe that pagans also decorated evergreen trees with candles at the Winter Solstice? Diwali, the Hindu Festival of Light. I've attended Catholic masses where there were candles, and flowers on the altar, and incense was burned. Some Christian friends and relatives of mine make advent wreaths, with evergreens and candles. Bread and wine in Christianity. Water in baptism.

There is some flexibility in making offerings. If you have allergies or asthma, or you really hate incense, you don't have to burn it. If you can't easily get branches from a green plant, you can use a plastic or silk plant (plastic certainly is eternal). Some SGI members who have small children choose to use a lamp or electric candle on the altar, rather than a candle with a real flame.

Some of the offerings can also serve as triggers, particularly the incense and the candles -- you light the incense and the candle and then begin chanting --pretty soon, just smelling some incense, or candlelight can trigger the same calm, meditative state that chanting does. It's like the experiment that Pavlov did with his dogs -- feed the dogs, and ring the bell. Soon, all Pavlov had to do was ring the bell and the dogs would start drooling, even if there wasn't a scrap of food around.

I found it difficult to go to a certain yoga class right after I left SGI because that particular yoga instructor liked to burn incense -- and it triggered memories of SGI for me. I went to a Catholic mass with a friend, a memorial mass for her late father. I smelled the incense and just automatically began chanting. I don't think anyone noticed; they were all saying the Our Father -- but I caught myself and thought, "What!?" For all my education, I'm no better than a laboratory dog? Ring the bell and I drool? Smell can be a very powerful trigger, I find. I smell something, and I'm taken back to what I thought and felt the last time I smelled that particular scent.

Candles, fortunately, don't seem to affect me the same way. I can go to a birthday party and watch someone blow out their candles, without wanting to declare my love for President Ikeda.

If anyone is interested in a more detailed explanation of offerings than I've given here, you can go to enemy territory -- the SGI website:

www.sgi-usa.org/

You'd get on the home page, and click on "Beginning Your Practice,"

And then scroll down to, and click on, "Explanation of the Altar."

And I can't believe that I'm actually suggesting that someone go to the SGI website.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/29/2009 09:33AM by tsukimoto.

Thank you Tsukimoto for your explanation about the offerings.
Wow! A lot of symbols!
I thought they were offerings to the Gohonzon, that's why I thought it was silly, but now I understand they mean something.
I grew up in the Catholic Church with a lot of symbols and rituals.
Most churches have its symbols and rituals and if they work is because the individual believes they work. It's all a matter of faith. Just like believing that a certain charm will bring us luck!
I actually checked the page you suggested from SGI and I thought it was so cute the animation about how you click and it explains each thing. But don't worry I wouldn't join SGI!
The plant, water, fruit, incense and candle are a lot to take care of everyday. No wonder why my 'friend' never stays at a job for a long time, with so many things to do at the altar, plus the hours of chanting, I wouldn't have time to do anything else either.

Thank you again.

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Awaken7
I actually checked the page you suggested from SGI and I thought it was so cute the animation about how you click and it explains each thing. But don't worry I wouldn't join SGI!
The plant, water, fruit, incense and candle are a lot to take care of everyday. No wonder why my 'friend' never stays at a job for a long time, with so many things to do at the altar, plus the hours of chanting, I wouldn't have time to do anything else either.
.

Awaken, glad that the website didn't drag you over to the dark side! :-) You do get into a routine with the altar, like everything else. Greenery doesn't need to be replaced daily, and usually the fruit doesn't either. The candles and the incense are actually quite profitable for SGI, as many members buy the candles and incense at the SGI bookstores in the community centers -- or through SGI mail order. (You don't have to buy SGI's incense and candles, but I found them to be better quality than the stuff at Walmart...SGI candles dripped less, and SGI sells lower-smoke, more lightly scented incense...I hated the cheap mall incense that made my house smell like an opium den. Finally gave up incense altogether -- I read about a study that said incense, like smoking, could cause lung cancer -- you are inhaling smoke, sometimes for hours a day.) SGI also did sell incense burners, vases for the greens, cups for the water, etc. Nice money-maker for them.

I still do like the symbolism of water, fruit, greens, and light. "Faith" is abstract -- the metaphors of cleaning, growth, nourishing and brightness help me to see and understand the concept of faith in a different way.

Again thank you Tsukimoto for your explanations.
I guess it's great if those symbols have a positive meaning. And I imagine you don't buy the candles or accessories from SGI anymore, do you? But as long as they bring you well-being, I will go for it!
I appreciate your information on incense because I used to burn it at my house just for the nice aroma, and I was always wondering if it could be harmful like smoking.
Now I know more because my 'friend' was showing me about the water, fruit, candles, etc., on the last meet, and since I didn't go that far with SGI I never quite understood their meaning. And I'm certainly not going to call her and ask her personally because she would try to convince me again to join SGI.
Thanks for all the information!

I haven't written for a while, but I have been reading what you all have said every day.

A few weeks ago, my husband and I were listening to the soundtrack from "Wicked". I told him that when we went to see it at the Pantages a couple of years ago, I couldn't stop thinking about SGI and President Ikeda. I didn't mention it at the time because we were still good members, but the comparison was troubling to me. For those of you that have never seen it, the story is about the people of Oz. They all love and worship the wizard. They think he can do magical things, and can do nothing wrong. Elphaba is a college-aged girl who will in the future become the wicked witch, and she too worships the wizard and thinks he can change her. She becomes friends with the girl who will become the good witch. They go to the emerald city to see the wizard, and Elphaba realizes that the wizard is not what everyone thinks he is, and the wizard realizes that Elphaba is able to think for herself and so is dangerous. Glinda tries to get her to apologize but she won't, so she becomes the wicked witch and Glinda becomes the good witch. Elphaba is shunned by all of Oz. That's just briefly some of the story. When I saw it, I kept thinking that SGI was like the deluded people of Oz and President Ikeda was like the wizard, who is worshipped by everyone. Some former members have been made total outcasts by SGI, just like Elphaba. When I mentioned to my husband that I had those thoughts when we saw the play, he admitted that when we saw it, he thought of his relationship with SGI during the song "Defying Gravity". ...something has changed within me, something is not the same. I'm through with playing by the rules of someone else's game. Too late for second guessing, too late to go back to sleep. It's time to trust my instincts, close my eyes and leap. It's time to try defying gravity, I'll think I'll try defying gravity, and you can't pull me down...and nobody in all of Oz, no wizard that there is or was, is ever gonna bring me down!

How many members of SGI inside are really wanting to defy gravity?

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quiet one
A few weeks ago, my husband and I were listening to the soundtrack from "Wicked". I told him that when we went to see it at the Pantages a couple of years ago, I couldn't stop thinking about SGI and President Ikeda. I didn't mention it at the time because we were still good members, but the comparison was troubling to me. For those of you that have never seen it, the story is about the people of Oz. They all love and worship the wizard. They think he can do magical things, and can do nothing wrong. Elphaba is a college-aged girl who will in the future become the wicked witch, and she too worships the wizard and thinks he can change her. She becomes friends with the girl who will become the good witch. They go to the emerald city to see the wizard, and Elphaba realizes that the wizard is not what everyone thinks he is, and the wizard realizes that Elphaba is able to think for herself and so is dangerous. Glinda tries to get her to apologize but she won't, so she becomes the wicked witch and Glinda becomes the good witch. Elphaba is shunned by all of Oz. That's just briefly some of the story. When I saw it, I kept thinking that SGI was like the deluded people of Oz and President Ikeda was like the wizard, who is worshipped by everyone. Some former members have been made total outcasts by SGI, just like Elphaba.

quiet one, this is such a great post! I haven't seen "Wicked" -- but I have always loved "The Wizard of Oz." "The Wizard of Oz" reminds me of those trips that my SGI group used to make to another city, almost three hours' drive away to see simulcasts of President Ikeda speaking. We were not even going to see him in person...just his image on the TV screen!

Now, I'm not a technical whiz, but I live in a fair-size city -- surely it was possible to hook things up so that we could watch the simulcast locally! But no, the leaders wanted us to travel, to make a pilgrimage to see our magical leader. We were told that going to see this simulcast would be a good cause that would improve our karma! We were also told that the Devil King of the Sixth Heaven will try to keep devout members from making good causes! So if your family objected to you going, you had car trouble, your boss wanted you to work that weekend -- it was an attack of bad karma, sent by the Devil King of the Sixth Heaven. In other words, the Wicked Witch's flying monkeys were really bad Buddhist karma! The expressway was our Yellow Brick Road. I could see Matilda Buck as Glinda! (For those of you who don't know, Matilda was, and probably still is, a high-ranking SGI Women's Division Leader -- a cute smiley blonde, and Ikeda loyalist.)

So, you, the loyal SGI seeker, made it to Oz...the community center in this other city. You saw the Great Wizard Ikeda on the big screen and heard his words of wisdom. Now, you can change your karma --- get a heart, a brain, courage, return home. Not. (Too bad...I'd have saved a fortune in gas and tolls if I could've just clicked my heels together and been transported home, instead of having to drive.)

It was all just an illusion. In "The Wizard of Oz" movie, visitors were given special green glasses when they entered the "Emerald City," to further the illusion. And in the end, Dorothy discovered that she had the power, wisdom and courage inside of her all along. She just hadn't known it! Exactly like us! Ikeda is an ordinary man who cannot give us anything but fancy words and a carefully crafted image on a screen. WE are the ones who have the wisdom, the heart, and the courage to get ourselves where we need to go!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/02/2009 11:51PM by tsukimoto.