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If your innards tell you that something is off, listen to them. We've discussed that previously here, and the fact remains that our innards do not lie. We need to learn to listen to them and trust what they're trying to tell us. It's the old adage about something sounding too good to be true.
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meh
I couldn't watch but a few minutes of the FNCC crap; I have some kind of weird issue where I really have a lot of trouble watching people being humiliated ... it becomes almost physically painful. That video was absolutely excrutiating.
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corboy
Watch out for anything or anyone that equates "experience" or 'inspiration' with proof. It isnt.
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corboy
Many cults or aspiring inspiration peddlars rent rooms in famous universiites, medical centers, fancy hotels, seaside or beautiful wilderness retreat centers. This leads us to assume that the entity is endorsing them. No, it just means theyve rented a room.
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corboy
A silent meditation retreat should not trigger extreme emotions in too many people. You should not space out. You should not be encouraged to strain for certain kinds of experiences.
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corboy
There should be little trouble transitioning from the retreat to home life.
And..in any situation, period, if you find you have obsessions or craving that are not usual for you, emotions that you want to cling to in an addictive manner -- watch out.
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meh
I'd add to corboy's fact-checking suggestion to check those facts with multiple sources. For every sgi-is-a-cult posting, there are tens of others that will pooh-pooh that. I go back to my original contact with sgi in '02 or '03; there was a reason I was creeped out when I heard all that chanting going on; I just had another memory pop in my head, too. This occurred after I started practicing - I called a friend who lives in another time zone and happened to catch her when she was at krg; in an attempt to "ignore" my call on her cell, she accidentally answered it (without saying anything) and hung up. I could hear people chanting, and I experienced that same element of creepitude.
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TaitenAndProudThe gohonzon - regardless of which iteration - is a mass-produced xerox copy of a document you'll never see that was produced with the explicit purpose of selling to fund the priesthood. NST started printing bunches of copies on the Gakkai's suggestion as a way of supporting itself after WWII. In fact, it was Toda (if memory serves) who came up with the bright idea of "pious tourism" (aka tozan) as a way to funnel more believers' money into the priesthood. I started with a Nikken gohonzon (which I bought from NSA) and then I traded it in for the "approved" SGI gohonzon because it was prettier (which I also paid for). Neither organization did me any favors; I PURCHASED these objects and thus they're mine to do with as I please. Of course, if either organization wished to buy them back from me, they certainly could have offered, but neither did O_OQuote
It came with a Butsadan I picked up for free on Craigslist. It's also not an SGI gohonzon, it's a Nikken ghonzon. I have never been an "SGI" member. I left NSA in 1985. Like I said, I still have a bit of ingrained respect for the gohonzon - I can't say why. I just want to get it back to the temple - but not enough to spend my time and gas doing so.
There's nothing "special" or "magical" about the gohonzon. It's no different than a page of an advertisement - it's simply something a group produced piles and piles AND PILES of in order to make money for itself. In fact, the Dai-Gohonzon was made some time after Nichiren's death in order for the splinter sect created by Nikko to claim ultimate authority and legitimacy over the rest of the Nichiren splinter sects (there are several - several of the high priests at the time of Nichiren's death started their own Nichiren schools). Nichiren had no part in making the Dai-Gohonzon - that was all Nikko, who then claimed it was the real deal and that, since HE'd managed to abscond with it, it proved that HE had the only legitimate school. Such is the nature of intolerant religions - they always claim to be the Only One.
But by all means - do whatever you wish with it. I remember my second YWD HQ leader, when I asked her what they did with returned gohonzons, telling me that the priests (this was still NSA) burned them, but that the priest who was assigned the task typically suffered some sort of accidental injury afterward. What a load. Don't worry - nothing's going to happen to you (or anyone else) regardless of what you do with it. It's just a piece of paper with a coupla cheap wooden dowels and a bit of glue. And some string. Can't forget the string.
My personal opinion is that the rightful place for that emblem of spiritual enslavement is in the next outgoing trash, but that's just me :)
Why did you go to the trouble of picking up a butsudan off Craigslist, even for free, since you don't practice that kind of Buddhism, Sporatica? Just curious.
The religious fervor that burns, that passion, cannot be supported. It's exhausting and isolating. Because it makes the person odd, that person finds himself more and more limited socially, until his circle of friends consists entirely of those of his same religious group. And no matter how much the leadership exhorts and pushes the membership toward that peak of faith-passion, it is *exhausting*. That sort of energy output is a temporary thing, and it leaves the person drained.Quote
"When I was traveling," he said, looking back on the old days, "I'd see someone who wanted to get saved in one of my meetings, and he was so open and bubbly in his desire to get the Holy Ghost. It was wonderful and very fresh, but four years later I'd return and that person might be a hard-nosed intolerant Christian because he had Christ. That's when the danger comes in. People want an experience. They want to feel good, and their lives can be helped by it. But then as you start moving into the operation of the thing, you get into controlling people and power and money."
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meh
Funny, I was thinking about Marjoe Gortner yesterday morning.
I get what you're saying, sporatica. Years ago, I worked for an accounting firm; after tax season was over, all of the partners took a vacation. One of the other underlings, knowing that I enjoyed cooking, suggested I make a pasta lunch. I sent him off to the grocery store with a list, and when he returned I began cooking. As I was browning the Italian sausage, he came into the kitchen (there was a full kitchen in the office suite, complete with pots and pans) and said "Oh! You're using Mr. So-and-so's Passover pots." I was horrified! I'm not Jewish, I didn't think that something terrible would happen to me or Mr. So-and-so but, obviously, since he took the trouble to keep it safely un-trafed, it was a big deal to him. I wasn't concerned about him finding out - he would have been none the wiser, but out of deference to what was clearly important to him, I wanted to do what I could. I called a dear friend, who is knowledgeable about such things, and she said that I had two choices as to how to re-purify the pots. I opted for the shortcut (the longer process being to bury the offended objects in the ground for a year), and I snuck into the office over the weekend to boil rocks in them (for an hour, if I recall correctly).
Of course, this was bushwah. Pots, like a piece of paper in a wooden box or little plastic container, cannot be offended. At the same time, I do still have a couple of friends who continue to practice; out of respect for them as people, returning my gohonzons to the community center will be the thing to do for me. I'll do that at my convenience, but that's what I've decided. It feels like the right thing - that's just for me, and I have no issue with whatever anyone else decides to do with theirs. It's a little stiff for toilet paper and an odd size to line the bottom of a birdcage, but whatever - it's a very personal choice, and the only "right" or "wrong" lies with how your feel about the whole thing.
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I've found a lot of helpful and interesting information on this MB. I can see how many would be jaded by or downright disdainful of SGI and all things related to Nichiren Daishonin. I am not at that point. I do, however respect those who are and am hopeful that sometime, somehow, they will find the means to let go of that negativity and fill their lives/minds/spirits with positive. Like my mom always told me, life is a lesson - what doesn't kill us, will surely make us stronger.
I think that it's important to understand that our anger also keeps us connected to the organization in a way, and at some point it will be important for us to let go of that. We're still putting energy into sgi and giving it more space in our heads than it deserves. For me, this whole experience has been a profound lesson in personal autonomy and learning to think more critically. Every post on this mb has been of value, and reading about the experiences of others has been eye-opening . . . fuzzy things are snapping into focus, and I can't emphasize strongly enough how important it's been for me to realize that I'm not in this alone.
So! American Independence Day! Let's all celebrate our freedom from cult-speak, cult-think and superstition!