Maybe the Lamp of Israel was more of a blow torch than a lamp.

Posted by: kbyrne ()
Date: December 15, 2018 11:34PM


Quote: " It also triggered a memory about Pyramidology. I remember we were encouraged to buy these big blue volumes. They weren't cheap either. Does anyone else remember what that was about?

Also, something I had totally forgot about. In Shiloh, John brought in this old "doctor." I think pretty much all of us, including the Washington, Iowa church, took these urine tests. Then this guy told people things about what they needed to do for their health. In my case, drink more water. But there were some people -- and they were young people -- he basically told them they were on death's door, so he put them on fasting and strict diets. If I'm not mistaken, there was even some type of clinic/hospital they were sent to. I'm curious if anyone else remembers that. I remember thinking at the time, this guy was a quack." end quote

The old quack was Dr Kerry Reams. My mom forced me to take his courses- it was a real money maker for Reams. Instead of blood he used urine and saliva- which can help diagnosis. Several problems- those he trained had little or no education- were not licensed to practice medicine NOR was Reams licensed to to practice- he was biologist who invent the Real Lemon (the plastic fake lemon juice.) some of the people he trained ( had 8th grade education) ended up giving very bad advice that ended up "killing" their clients. If you want me to explain, feel free to ask.

Reams thing was scientific making his followers and students feel like they knew "secrets your doctor won't tell you" and he threw in some religion. He had a cult following with his big money maker was to sell his products MLM style.

Yes, there was something to Reams work, but, the way he did things he was a quack. My point is this _ How little revelation did JRS and Marilyn really have when it came to bringing in an alternative medicine doctor ( PHD) in order to try to avoid doctors who were licensed to practice? The frauds got scammed and lead their flock into a scam.

Reams was into Pyramid -olgy as were many of his followers. So was Latter Day Rain in Pyramids. JRS may have denied being influenced by Latter Day Rain- but he was, we have learned.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/28/2019 11:50PM by NancyB.

Quote
NancyB
Date: June 28, 2019 09:41AM

The old quack was Dr Kerry Reams. My mom forced me to take his courses- it was a real money maker for Reams. Instead of blood he used urine and saliva- which can help diagnosis. Several problems- those he trained had little or no education- were not licensed to practice medicine NOR was Reams licensed to to practice- he was biologist who invent the Real Lemon (the plastic fake lemon juice.) some of the people he trained ( had 8th grade education) ended up giving very bad advice that ended up "killing" their clients. If you want me to explain, feel free to ask.

Reams thing was scientific making his followers and students feel like they knew "secrets your doctor won't tell you" and he threw in some religion. He had a cult following with his big money maker was to sell his products MLM style.

Yes, there was something to Reams work, but, the way he did things he was a quack. My point is this _ How little revelation did JRS and Marilyn really have when it came to bringing in an alternative medicine doctor ( PHD) in order to try to avoid doctors who were licensed to practice? The frauds got scammed and lead their flock into a scam.

Reams was into Pyramid -olgy as were many of his followers. So was Latter Day Rain in Pyramids. JRS may have denied being influenced by Latter Day Rain- but he was, we have learned.

I remember that guy, NancyB. I was wondering if he was the same one I remember because my test was saliva. I remember the lemon juice fasts, like seven days. They made me so sick, especially at first.

We were on so many bizarre diets in TLWF over the years. And yet, "Yogurt Is Not A Religion" according to JRS. See, if the leaders had just followed their own strange diets without drowning themselves in alcohol, maybe we wouldn't have gotten so many delusional and harmful directions over the years.

God did move mightily through ministries that adhered to the scotch diet.
Just an observation.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/29/2019 01:49AM by changedagain.

Posted by: Reepicheep ()
Date: June 29, 2019 12:42AM

Quote
NancyB
Date: June 28, 2019 09:41AM

The old quack was Dr Kerry Reams. My mom forced me to take his courses- it was a real money maker for Reams. Instead of blood he used urine and saliva- which can help diagnosis. Several problems- those he trained had little or no education- were not licensed to practice medicine NOR was Reams licensed to to practice- he was biologist who invent the Real Lemon (the plastic fake lemon juice.) some of the people he trained ( had 8th grade education) ended up giving very bad advice that ended up "killing" their clients. If you want me to explain, feel free to ask.

Reams thing was scientific making his followers and students feel like they knew "secrets your doctor won't tell you" and he threw in some religion. He had a cult following with his big money maker was to sell his products MLM style.

Yes, there was something to Reams work, but, the way he did things he was a quack. My point is this _ How little revelation did JRS and Marilyn really have when it came to bringing in an alternative medicine doctor ( PHD) in order to try to avoid doctors who were licensed to practice? The frauds got scammed and lead their flock into a scam.

Reams was into Pyramid -olgy as were many of his followers. So was Latter Day Rain in Pyramids. JRS may have denied being influenced by Latter Day Rain- but he was, we have learned.


I remember that guy, NancyB. I was wondering if he was the same one I remember because my test was saliva. I remember the lemon juice fasts, like seven days. They made me so sick, especially at first.

We were on so many bizarre diets in TLWF over the years. And yet, "Yogurt Is Not A Religion" according to JRS. See, if the leaders had just followed their own strange diets without drowning themselves in alcohol, maybe we wouldn't have gotten so many delusional and harmful directions over the years.



Yes My wife and I were also there in Washington, IA and we were seen by this quack. Honestly while we both of us were quite submissive to anything JRS at the time, this man was so over the top that we both said 'No Way Hosea!' You could not be more correct about there being so many strange diets and purges. Luckly we said no to 99% of those. If only we had been that wise about the rest of the 'All things TLWF'

Do you think JRS was fooled by this guy (Dr. Kerry Reams)...or was he receiving kickbacks from him, after allowing him access to members of the fellowship? I suppose both propositions could be true.
I wonder the same thing about the mine scam. Was JRS really fooled by his son-in-law's scheme...a display of ignorance which alone should invalidate claims he was a manifestation of Christ (John 2:24-25)...or were they in it together? Conveniently, John was holed up in Shiloh when his son-in-law was facing the law, eventually serving time. It was his son-in-law, correct?

Hi Changed, If only we could have seen into the mind of JRS we would not be here.

Having sat in 2 of Reams classes fora total of 2 weeks, I think Reams took advantage of easy prey. I think Reams was on to something but he trained few people, with the exception of maybe chiropractors, who were qualified to be practicing non-approved methods of diagnosis and treatments.

FYI Only a chiropractor and I really understood the chemistry of the whole class teaching.- I had an RN degree- I knew that I was not qualified to practice doing Reams method. Everyone who paid to attend got a certificate whether they understood or not. My mom, a very intelligent woman and well read got her certificate and she admitted that she did not understand a thing.

I believe Reams was narcissistic tho' a brilliant scientist. He had a cult following. ( My parents drank form many fountains.)

I think we can agree that John Robert Stevens liked the mystical secrets that no one else knew - kind of a "God -like" secret knowledge that gave his own self Power and Control ( My opinion)


Helphand was married to one of JRS daughters, if that is who you are referring to. JRS seemed to like the fact that his son-in-law was Jewish.

Shiloh's location certainly served as a great hiding place to avoid extradition for all too many. - And to think hte the good people of Washington, Iowa church thought Shiloh was going to be a nice little church camp with flush toilets.

Quote

Posted by: changedagain ()
Date: June 29, 2019 09:23AM

Do you think JRS was fooled by this guy (Dr. Kerry Reams)...or was he receiving kickbacks from him, after allowing him access to members of the fellowship? I suppose both propositions could be true.

I wonder the same thing about the mine scam. Was JRS really fooled by his son-in-law's scheme...a display of ignorance which alone should invalidate claims he was a manifestation of Christ (John 2:24-25)...or were they in it together? Conveniently, John was holed up in Shiloh when his son-in-law was facing the law, eventually serving time. It was his son-in-law, correct?

Interesting discussion, NancyB, changedagain and fool me twice. As far as Kerry Reams, I have no idea if JRS had ulterior monetary motives for pushing his questionable medical expertise. As NancyB said, JRS was constantly looking for new things, new revelations, new medical treatments, etc.

As for the mine scandal, there is a thorough account of behind the scenes machinations in Chapter 11 (Silver and Gold Have I None) of Woodrow Nichols' research titled EXPERIMENT IN END TIME APOSTASY: THE WALK of JOHN ROBERT STEVENS;
The History, Beliefs, and Spiritual Dynamics of a Christian Cult. This chapter reads as a strange tale of deception, in-fighting and revenge. People lost their life savings by "investing in the Kingdom" at the urging of JRS.

The only person ever prosecuted in relation to the mine was Paul Holder. Here is a quote from the end of this chapter:

Quote
Woodrow Nichols

Stevens' guilt is so obvious it sounds like a replay of President Nixon's actions during the Watergate affair. All in all, there were two 1000 oz. silver bars missing and approximately 3400-3500 other ounces unaccounted for, which at the time, was worth over $65,000. It is interesting to note that Martha is attempting to get at least half of 3500 ozs. of silver in the safe of John Robert through her recent divorce. It is interesting to speculate on where this silver came from. In fact, Hostetter told the Halla's that he was under the impression that the profits of National Mint were to go towards "blessing the Apostle," claiming that he had never been informed that it was to go to Logos Mining Corporation.

The only person to be prosecuted out of all of this was Paul Holder. He was eventually convicted of felony grand theft in June 1978 in San Diego for raising money for a mine that did not exist. It is humorous to note that the whole time the trial was taking place, John Robert was spending an extended sabbatical in Washington, Iowa. In fact, when the trial was officially over, he returned back to Southern California. The first meeting he spoke at after returning is recorded in the Prologue. This is why the congregation was so anxious to hear from their Apostle again....

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/30/2019 12:31AM by Reepicheep.

NancyB Wrote:

> Helphand was married to one of JRS daughters, if
> that is who you are referring to. JRS seemed to
> like the fact that his son-in-law was Jewish.


I'm not sure if that is who I have in mind.
BTW, 23andme recently downgraded me from 24% to 21% Ashkenazi Jew. So basically I am now a little less chosen than I was a week ago. Bummer. If it ever gets reduced to less than 2% I probably won't bring it up again.

Dick Helphand was JRS' son-in-law and also an attorney. He helped JRS with legal matters related to the mine venture. Paul Holder was the one claiming to have a process for extracting ore.

Condolences on finding out that you're not as "chosen" as you thought, changed. ;)