NancyB - For the sake of people like me who like to know specifics, when you copy an earlier quote, could you please add what date it was posted? That would help my ridiculously fact specific memory know when stuff was going on behind the scenes in relationship to what has been said. Thank you!

I don't know anything about people taking a vow of poverty that has to do with their right to social security, etc., but I know that as an ordained minister, you can elect to have money paid to you as a parsonage allowance not go thru the regular pay/salary/income calculation and thus avoid paying into or receiving support from, social security.

TLWF routinely paid people as parsonage to avoid the requirement that they would have to pay the employer's share into social security. I heard at one point they ordained the school teachers and paid them as parsonage. I don't know if anyone ever got in trouble for that because it was kind of shady - but I also heard they curtailed this procedure quite a while back but who knows if it is true.

The claim that JRS was worth $30 million was made in divorce papers filed by his first wife, Martha. It included a claim that all of the church assets were in fact JRS' personal property. I worked in his divorce for years (it was finalized after he died) and I was able to protect the church's assets from being used in the divorce as far as I knew. I heard later that a lot of property I was able to trace the ownership of to church resources (offerings of the people) was given over to his ex-wife and daughters by G&M after his death to get the case settled. Sad but true.

I now believe that just as Rick said to his daughter that "All of this will be yours someday..." (indicating the church) that JRS probably made those same promises to his first wife and his two daughters. They were probably very justified in calling all church assets JRS' personal property because he could have done anything he wanted - he had total control. But at the time I was horrified by that thought. Live and learn.

Good point Onion on including the dates. My oops.

When hitting the quote it does not include the date, so I will watch it from now on. There are so many bits and pieces from old posts, I felt it important for newbies reading to help by pulling things in more recent spot. I wish we could go back and edit - I miss so many -typos.

I really think Martha thought they owned the church, in my opinion.

Onion, thanks for all the things you post for us to fill in the blanks where I had disturbing memories.

On June 26, 2019 Onion wrote and I quote:

Quote
Forum. Cult Education

" I don't know anything about people taking a vow of poverty that has to do with their right to social security, etc., but I know that as an ordained minister, you can elect to have money paid to you as a parsonage allowance not go thru the regular pay/salary/income calculation and thus avoid paying into or receiving support from, social security.

TLWF routinely paid people as parsonage to avoid the requirement that they would have to pay the employer's share into social security. I heard at one point they ordained the school teachers and paid them as parsonage. I don't know if anyone ever got in trouble for that because it was kind of shady - but I also heard they curtailed this procedure quite a while back but who knows if it is true." end quote

Thanks, Onion. I had wondered how many were taking "parsonage benefits" as ordained ministers. I did not know that they ordained teachers. I did know that during Viet Nam some young men of draft age were ordained in order to avoid the draft. I did not understand that fully - some had student deferments-Viet Nam was so controversial to say the least.

Still don't know everything TLW did to "keep costs down" but it I had felt it was shady at the time I had wondered.

I think most people don't realize how much contributions employers kick into to a pay check above the wage paid. The amount of employer contribution is considerable. (I've owned a business and have been self employed. ) if the kingdom had come in '79, paying into Social Security and SSDI and etc, I guess, would have seemed moot or even silly. But, since we aged, the amount of Social Security checks to live on today is not a lot.

I, personally, did know that a minister could elect certain things on/off their taxes. So "ministering" can have its perks

Nancy B. wrote:
Still don't know everything TLW did to "keep costs down" but it I had felt it was shady at the time I had wondered. think most people don't realize how much contributions employers kick into to a pay check above the wage paid. The amount of employer contribution is considerable. (I've owned a business and have been self employed.) if the kingdom had come in '79, paying into Social Security and SSDI and etc, I guess, would have seemed moot or even silly. But, since we aged, the amount of Social Security checks to live on today is not a lot.

True



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/26/2019 10:33PM by changedagain.

Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: HappySad
Date: January 21, 2019 12:34PM

Does anyone know what sort of threat was made to the Grants Pass cult/church recently? Who, what, where, when?

Apparently local law enforcement was never notified of the threat, so it appears to have been bogus.

Quote
NancyB
Date: June 26, 2019 07:06AM

I think most people don't realize how much contributions employers kick into to a pay check above the wage paid. The amount of employer contribution is considerable. (I've owned a business and have been self employed. ) if the kingdom had come in '79, paying into Social Security and SSDI and etc, I guess, would have seemed moot or even silly. But, since we aged, the amount of Social Security checks to live on today is not a lot.

To me, this pattern of tricky dealing related to people's salaries and paying into Social Security is one of the things that grieves me the most about the Walk/TLWF. The leaders made sure to plan lavishly for their own future, but did not afford basic care and concern for their employees and members. They also seem to have been adept at finding "loopholes" in tax law.

I doubt very seriouly that JRS believed that the Kingdom was coming in 1979. After all, he knew that his "vision" seven years into the future was nothing more than a cover-up. He had to find a reason that he had disappeared and "lost all track of time". He had to explain that lapse to a very suspicious mistress (Marilyn) and his wife (Martha). He couldn't very well say that he had used his position and power to seduce a young woman follower and was with her that day. (Which, by the way, is clergy abuse of the victim, as well as abusing the trust of all of his followers.)

What really bothers me is that he obviously knew the truth, yet perpetuated a complete fabrication and allowed people to base their important life decisions on his promise that the kingdom was coming on a date certain in December of 1979.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 06/27/2019 08:19PM by Reepicheep.

Walk history would have been radically different if John the Kingdom Apostle had simply owned up to being unfaithful to his wife and mistress--and admitted his being transported from Dec. 1972 to Dec 1979 to witness the coming Kingdom was a fabrication. Maybe the entire organization would have imploded, and I would have finished my college education (half-way through before dropping out).
Of course, there is always the possibility--God being unpredictable and all--He did choose to transport John on a day he was spending quality time with his girlfriend. The vision was true. I guess you could look at it that way, assuming you are devoid of a "religious spirit" and are desperate for the facts to line up with what you want to believe.

"I believe; help my unbelief!”
Mark: 9:24

Changedagain posted:
Date: June 28, 2019 12:20AM
Walk history would have been radically different if John the Kingdom Apostle had simply owned up to being unfaithful to his wife and mistress--and admitted his being transported from Dec. 1972 to Dec 1979 to witness the coming Kingdom was a fabrication. Maybe the entire organization would have imploded, and I would have finished my college education (half-way through before dropping out).
Of course, there is always the possibility--God being unpredictable and all--He did choose to transport John on a day he was spending quality time with his girlfriend. The vision was true. I guess you could look at it that way, assuming you are devoid of a "religious spirit" and are desperate for the facts to line up with what you want to believe.

We were always told the cabin JRS went too, every week, was in Holy Jim Canyon. Who knew that Marilyn went there too? Maybe it actually was in Unholy John Canyon. Honestly I did not know that JRS had a spiritual wife back then, other than Martha I mean. Also more than one G/f on the side. After all we had no way to Google what he told us were his revelations. Are you saying that if we only had a few more red flags then all of us would have been spared another 40 to 50 years of this? That is a 'revelation' I could live with trust me!

FMT wrote:
We were always told the cabin JRS went too, every week, was in Holy Jim Canyon. Who knew that Marilyn went there too? Maybe it actually was in Unholy John Canyon

HJC (Holy Jim Canyon) or UJC (Unholy John Canyon)?
I will now go to google maps and see if they are at the same location.

"Hell hath no fury like the mistress of Israel scorned."
I may have butchered this quote from the English author, William Congreve.
Please disregard.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/28/2019 07:20AM by changedagain.