changedagain Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I can't believe I'm actually quoting a scripture,
> but here goes:
> 1 Peter 5
> Shepherd the flock of God among you, exercising
> oversight not under compulsion, but voluntarily,
> according to the will of God; and not for
> sordid gain, but with eagerness; 3nor yet
> as lording it over those allotted to your
> charge, but proving to be examples to
> the flock.
>
> I think this attitude among 'ministries' is
> exceptionally rare. Well, at least in the
> Walk/TLWF.

___________________________________________________________________

Rare indeed. Um.... I couldn't help myself; I reread your post 5 times to make sure you didn't sneak in one of your funny fake scriptures. Ha!


Apostle Dog Wrote:
--------------------------------------------------------
>There is no excuse for anyone lording it over anyone. PERIOD. (my emphasis)



You two made my day. Good job.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/20/2016 01:35PM by lily rose.

Previously: “There is no excuse for anyone lording it over anyone, and there is no reason that anyone should believe their BS when they are told they are supposed to bow and scrape to leaders.”

------------------------

That’s right --- Jesus set the captives free so they could live their lives according to their own natural, God-given personality!!

Hi, Lily Rose,

I always loved Larry Cotton. We had a good relationship and he treated me like a little sister. When JRS once said he could ordain me and I would out minister all the ministriec on the platform, Larry made me bring a "Word" at South Gate *lol* I remember it was on oneness and afterward a fist fight broke out on the platform! When JR'S found out later, he belly laughed! I missed Larry deeply when he left and I lost track of him.

As for Sister Aimee, JRS once said I reminded him of her. I had never heard of her, so I researched deeply. Yes, she was controversial and many things were said about her, but JRS said she was the only ministry he had met who had the adulation of thousands yet never kept it for herself and gave it to God. I researched her so thought that my senior paper for history was about her! She had a profound affect on him when he attended her Bible College. I even broke into Angelus Temple just to see how it felt to stand behind her podium. Decades later, I went to a rededication service on an anniversary. Her son, Rolf, was there, and I met him and told him about his mother''s impact on JRS and Living Word teachings.

I know this all sounds weird and over the top. But I took away something from all that: If you want a walk with God, then have it be YOURS, not someone else's. That is what let me know I could walk away from TLWF with my walk with God intact.

lily rose Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TheSarge,
>
> Seems distasteful that the Kjos take money for the
> JRS messages....freely you have rec'd, freely give
> (Matt 10:8). Sarge I don't know if you ever binged
> read Factnet? One poster told the story of his/her
> spouse's death maybe around 1990 and Larry Cotton
> asked on behalf of the spouse to have the burial
> at Shiloh but the request was denied. So Larry
> buried the spouse. I think that speaks well of
> him.
>
> Also, you once mentioned Amiee McPherson having an
> influence on JRS. I recently looked her up
> and learned that she too started her own
> denomination, popularized "slain in the spirit"
> and "physical healing." And she wasn't without
> controversy having divorced twice, went missing
> for awhile, was described as an hysteric, and died
> of a barbiturate overdose. Lucky for her
> Pentecostals are soft on character.

TheSarge Wrote in Part:
-------------------------------------------------------
>

> But I took away something from all that: If you
> want a walk with God, then have it be YOURS, not
> someone else's. That is what let me know I could
> walk away from TLWF with my walk with God intact.
>
>
_________________________________________________________________-

That's a great take away. A few weeks ago changedagain posted that John preached that it was essential to have your own walk with God but under G&M it was about serving leaders. I pondered that in light of Apostle Dog's posts regarding the overwhelming news his wife received regarding having stage 4 cancer. A diagnosis of stage 4 cancer would most likely cause great spiritual distress but AD's wife having her own walk with God intact also had the strength to come to terms with dying.

It's important to remember, while we're on this topic, that The Walk was supposed to be just that, while at the same time during JRS' tenure, the foundational teachings of Elijah/Elisha-Paul/Timothy were in full swing, infering directly that one was not able to really have a walk with God unless you were coupled to someone else who had 'more' of a walk with God than you did.

G&M didn't come up with this teaching on their own, they merely morphed it into a more stratified iteration that did untold damage across the fellowship, designating relationships that had more emphasis on brown-nosing than it did on spiritual maturity.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/22/2016 07:16AM by kBOY.

I think so too kBoy. The Paul/Timothy duo was one relationship among thousand of Biblical relationships involving only two individuals and that doesn't make it a biblical pattern or teaching for all to follow. Further, Paul did not lord it over Timothy but came along side him to share insights and instruction. They were not instituting a religious doctrine to be enforced on an entire fellowship. The LW teaching that all men must have a spiritual father or Paul/Timothy relationship is scripture twisting and it seems to me it places the person in a place that rightfully belongs to God. As Larry Bobo has pointed out so often, Christ said call no man Father. Having a spiritual father or Paul/Timothy relationship is probably nice, but it is not a perquisite to having your own walk with God.

kBOY’s and lily rose’s last posts are awesome. There is much liberation imparted when things become this black & white!!!

Thank You Both.

What I learned fromm JR'S on those relationships was a fathering ministry that would encourage leapfrogging, that the student would surpass the teacher. It confirmed what I already kbew, because the Presbyterian church had ordained me as an elder at the age of 18. So I never took that teaching as an hierarchy. Then he commissioned me over the 3rd Generation with two others to bring them up and have them leapfrog over me. How it got abused and perverted in John''s times was through older ministries who felt their "power" waning and used the teaching to stifle.

Again, having my own walk with God saved me from being duped. But, after JRS''s death, I started being marginalized more and more.

Did any in the 3rd generation truly ever leapfrog over anyone and out minister them?

I guess Elijah/Elisha is one example in the OT of leapfrogging but there aren't many other accounts of the other remarkable OT prophets leapfrogging over a mentor let alone having a mentoring relationship with anyone. And from this one Bible account of Elijah/Elisha emerged the LW view that if one serves the mentor, one gets a double portion. Did anyone in the church ever get a double portion?

There were folks in the Walk who were exceptional such as Bowman's ability to commit the Bible to memory, and Gruenberg was exceptional in music, and TheSarge it sounds likes if you were reading the Bible at 4 years old you too were exceptional.....and by exceptional I mean standing out from the average Joe. But I don't know of evidence in the LW that anyone leapfrogged or received a double portion from serving a ministry.

I have to agree with Lily Rose, having a "spiritual father" (*I would rather call it a mentor) which is basically some older guy that you can go to for advice is very nice, I had a couple of them myself, and i did nothing on my own, BACK THEN.

That is not necessary to have a walk with God, in fact, you are supposed to grow up spiritually.

I'll put it this way, you are not literally a flock of dumb animals (sheep).

Read Ephesians 4 again, and this time, don't stop after you read there there are APOSTLES AND PROPHETS., don't get hung up there, that is where Living Word stopped.

Read what they are supposed to do. Those guys are to bring you to maturity. I was a journeyman in a skilled construction trade, and I must have trained, well, God only knows how many apprentices. But they are all journeymen now themselves. I have moved on to other things, and NONE OF THEM call me up at home and ask me how to do their jobs. Just think about it.