I know, the questions can only be answered by going an untwisting the scriptures that were used where possible. I am sure there were messages that were more basic and edifying. But yes, it was radical ideas that did not, in the final analysis prove to be accurate.

The proof? John Stevens died. We have discussed the fact that he said what to do if that happened. Close the doors to the church and lock it up. G and M had better ideas knowing the potential for $$ and power and played it to the hilt- riding on the grief of the people and using what worked to seize control and Plagiarizing the words of another man from the scores of messages and writings.

G does not hold a candle to the skillful delivery of how John preached. He is long gone but an imposter is standing as if he was all that and he is not. I am sure John would laugh his ass off at the spectacle if he wasn't too busy crying over what he had unleashed on good people and it was and still is a tragedy for countless families.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/18/2016 02:05PM by Cloudwatcher.

There have always been a lot of really nice people with Living Word Fellowship. Good people that fell pray to abuse because they were conned into thinking that to obey those ministers they were obeying God. Well, God never put those "ministers" in the place of boss over His people. A minister is to do just what the word implies, they are to serve God's people. By serving them, that could include teaching them lessons from the bible, and it could include counseling them when they have trouble in their lives like marriage troubles or troubles with their kids or loss of jobs and sickness and all of that. NEVER, was the intention of God to be for people in a congregation to be to serve their leaders. How JRS got that twisted so badly can only make an educated guess.

I am going to make it a point to spend time every day praying for the freedom of the people that are in the Walk now. I am going to pray that they get a real revelation of what the current leadership is about. it is pure usury.

I know for certain there is nobody with the education level and skills that Gary Hargrave has that is making the kind of money he is making. if John Robert Stevens was making a fraction of Gary Hargrave is making when there was close to a hundred local churches and probably ten times as many members, and sometimes ministering in 10 church services a week, and doing all of that writing on top of that, and using his own property to house people that came into the church, there just can not be any excuse for the type of money that Hargrave makes with a tenth of as many people. On top of that he lives in a mansion and they fly him back and forth from Hawaii to the mainland. What is next, are they going to go in debt and buy him one of these televangelists personal airplane and hire a full time pilot.

I hope these people in the Living Word fellowship will raise up and start demanding some accountability. If they are going to be set free, i believe they are going to have to do it themselves.

I thin of the scripture that refers to the time when Satan is exposed and the people look at him and marvel, and ask "IS THIS THE GUY THAT HAS DECEIVED THE NATIONS."

At least John Robert Stevens had the type of personality and the bible expertise to confuse himself, whether he intended to fool anybody else or not. Gary Hargrave is mediocre at best. If the Pope has ever heard of him or not, (and I doubt if he has) I would bet that the Pope don't think much of him. The people of Living Word must know that Hargrave is kissing up to get some sort of financial or power hook going. they HAVE to know that. And if any of them just want to take a look at the old tapes they will hear Hargrave pulling the same thing on John Robert Stevens. And they must know that Hargrave didn't respect John Stevens any more than he really respects the Pope. Hargrave is a right winger and the Pope is a left winger. The HAVE TO know that Hargrave is just pulling another scam. Don't the people of Living Word Fellowship even want to be for real? Don't they deep down inside feel just a little dirty when they see Hargrave pulling those kind of tricks to get ahead?

The unfortunate irony of the situation is that the original 'vision' that initially attracted us back in the '70s has been replaced by a decades-long commitment to an isolating social culture that has become a stranglehold upon any thought of leaving.

Any inspiring 'vision' perished long ago, leaving the 'remnant' in survival-mode, lost in the wilderness, circling the same mountain year after year with no clear direction, and offering everyone the same option of simply dying off with no hope of seeing any 'promised land'.

TheSarge said, "I suspect what I'm about to contribute will not set well with the current posters, but I'd like to express my paradigm anyway."

But Sarge, I think you make an excellent point. You describe the reasons my wife and I left the church. All of a sudden, it simply wasn't a place where we could hear what we believed was the voice of God in our hearts anymore. And, the obvious damage that was being done to people was not something we wished to participate in. Just writing about it makes me cringe a little at the nonsense that was taking place back in those days immediately following JRS's death, and that continues to this day.

Only major difference that happened with my wife and me was that we began the process of educating ourselves in religious history, starting with Egyptian and Greek, on to Christianity, then to the eastern religions, where we reached (for ourselves) the inescapable conclusion that there is not a "single path" to salvation, enlightenment, or whatever you wish to call it. It is a personal journey. What we used to call a "personal relationship with God". That very important component disappeared for us somewhere during the days of wife-changing and so on during The Walk. Then, that whole "DR" debacle? Are you kidding me?

I'm glad you're around, Sarge. Keep it coming!

Cheers

kd87 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I know our church was boozy as can be. Being
> "radical" was encouraged.

I confirm this!

pbxguy Wrote:
> All of a sudden, it simply wasn't a place
> where we could hear what we believed was the voice
> of God in our hearts anymore. And, the obvious
> damage that was being done to people was not
> something we wished to participate in. Just
> writing about it makes me cringe a little at the
> nonsense that was taking place back in those days
> immediately following JRS's death, and that
> continues to this day.

Years and years of being immersed in a culture where the blame for experiencing no fulfillment of the "Word" has been placed on the people...many of whom have done their damnedest to follow and embody every crazy notion (aka 'current Word') laid upon them.
Pick anyone in the fellowship at random after John's death, put them in charge, and it is highly unlikely they would have caused anywhere near the amount of damage to people's lives that the Hargraves are responsible for. The DR debacle, indeed.

Two things come to my mind. One, I know that one of the main evidence of insanity, or is it just stupidity, is for people to do the same thing, year after year, decade after decade, and expect a different result to come about.

Another thought that comes to mind, about the "vision" and all of that, Jesus said "MY sheep hear MY voice, and a STRANGER, they will not follow. We all followed a stranger, and only when we stopped following a stranger, we started hearing HIS voice.

The people in Living Word right this minute, I am very sorry to say, they are there because the hear the strange voice of Gary Hargrave, they can not hear the voice of Christ. They WANT TO continue to follow the stranger. IF they sought after CHRIST, I guarantee they will find Him. Some, or even all, might just follow Gary Hargrave, right to HELL, where Marilyn is waiting. I hope actually that John Robert Stevens is not there too, playing checkers with Earl Paulk. You can look up Earl Paulk for an interesting story too, he is known down here in Georgia as the "FRISKY BISHOP."



kBOY Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The unfortunate irony of the situation is that the
> original 'vision' that initially attracted us back
> in the '70s has been replaced by a decades-long
> commitment to an isolating social culture that has
> become a stranglehold upon any thought of leaving.
>
>
> Any inspiring 'vision' perished long ago, leaving
> the 'remnant' in survival-mode, lost in the
> wilderness, circling the same mountain year after
> year with no clear direction, and offering
> everyone the same option of simply dying off with
> no hope of seeing any 'promised land'.

changedagain Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> pbxguy Wrote:
> >
> Years and years of being immersed in a culture
> where the blame for experiencing no fulfillment of
> the "Word" has been placed on the people...

Over and over and round and round---it never stops. I wish someone would listen to those most current months at least since m's death and identify the themes being repeated and the outrageous claims. It would be helpful It is all there regurgitation and the people are slopping up vomit.

Cloudwatcher Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Over and over and round and round---it never
> stops. I wish someone would listen to those most
> current months at least since m's death and
> identify the themes being repeated and the
> outrageous claims.

There was a faint hope that upon M's death, G might just go somewhere and enjoy his retirement. But I guess there is still more abuse that needs to administered, so he remains.
Damn.

I'd like to point out that trying to track with the "currend word" is extremely stressful. It will drive you nuts. Churn your guts into ulcers and give you high blood pressure. And at the end of the day, you will still never measure up. Still never break thru into fulfillment and never enter the "Rest of God".

The LW culture will kill you and make you "old before your time".