Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: NancyB ()
Date: December 11, 2019 09:07PM

Hello dear people, I woke up with with newer puzzle pieces on my mind that relate to the threads on Rick Holbrook 'having been molested'. That does not surprise me at all.
I can have empathy for any child being a victim.* As an adult there is no excuse for him to do what he has done. There is also no excuse for his mother and his step fathers to cover for him. ( I got that out of the way - please bear with me...) JRS and Marilyn created and enabled a very sick person.

I absolutely understand any reaction that sheds no 'boo-hoo's for Rick. However this needs to be explored back to the roots as all of us have suffered form the rotten to core from the beginning, but, we were not aware of the when the first seeds were planted.

When I started posting on forums or private pages I had blurted out many things that may not have been as relevant simply because I have memories back to 1957 with the Stevens family and the church - pre-Walk. The atrocities did not begin with The Walk nor the ground breaking of Shiloh. Certainly, JRS has lofty aspirations that did not line up with his father's humble church' s mission.

Looking back I believe that the major 'criminal' changes happened in South Gate and the Valley during the time of the 'witch incidents" and when Marilyn became church secretary. ( I only visited CA when I was 15, 16, 17, and lived there when I was 18 to 19, then later in my late 20's to mid 30's.

I saw enough to be disturbing to a naive Iowa girl. I did not have the cognitive maturity to understand the things I witnessed at the time.

My goal in this post is to try to dig up the fact that there were so many behaving badly in the early days of this cult. Iowans tended to excuse it as the eccentricity of LA, I suppose.

Some of us have questioned Wayne Barton's role in Rick's early grooming. I have no doubt of that based on my first hand knowledge of Barton. I also know that Barton was instrumental in certain male youths perverted acts that I found out about in the early 70's. ( Beyond my comprehension at that time.) A number of these teen age boys were know as John's boys but I can't recall the term that was used. a number were ordained in order to avoid the draft. ( I do know that there were a few good men to come out of this group that are still around. these men would have far more accurate insight on this group of boys if they would please come forward. It does matter.)

One of the strongest images that haunted me for 50 years was seeing this little boy running around the pews in the Valley with the teen boys. I was told it was Marilyn's son. ( I did not like the bossy woman to begin with.) I did not understand how M and JRS could allow horse play in the sanctuary and the rough house touching the teens were doing to the boy. I can't recall anything specific except it seemed so extremely wrong and no adult stopped it. ( JRS did not set limits. M did not set limits.)

In my historical mind I believe that I trusted JRS so much that I excused him. I suppose even the adults excused him. We now know that JRS had many out of marriage sexual encounters as a fact.

Recently, some disgusting wrong doings by JRS have been shared privately... then it clicked in my head - see how long it is taking me to process in my post?

In the '80's Brenda P revealed to a group of couples having marital issues that we "are all products of an alcoholic 'father" JRS". This dysfunctional has been more far reaching. We all enabled, with out realizing it, heinous crimes ; fraud even beyond just being a 'cult". We were all manipulated by alcoholics and sexual predators. It is painful to open our eyes to accept that, I know. As long as I have been working it out, the depth of the problems is overwhelming to process.

I knew it - but I have not been able to process the depth of what JRS and M did that enabled the monsters in the "kingdom". The serial sexual abuses were not isolated nor limited to only a few men. it was rampant and apparently condoned by JRS. I have to wonder if JRS himself groomed Rick???

My question is not known as a fact at this time. I simply think we need to explore the roots as this seems to me that the crime of exploiting women and children may have been more highly organized from the '60's than we realized. JRS was the king pin as he plagiarized the Living Word Kingdom.

If my conjecture is even close there will be many more loyal people having flash backs that had dismissed in the name of being "obedient to the Living Word". Please stop dismissing flash backs as "assault" You can think for yourself.

For those who only read this forum and have been loyal to TLWF, I believe it is because of the kind, and loving personal relationship "we" have with good people- not the word from charlatans. ( I miss my old friends - I still love you .) I suggest to those only reading these pages and still think we are 'not telling the truth', to write down any odd flashes of times when you felt: dirty; uncomfortable with suggestive comments or inappropriate touching; something that lingers in your head that did not seem right ; or . Just write it down and put it in a safe place.

I believe when you have enough little puzzle pieces from your memories it will all become clear that the Walk was not a Walk with God under the direction of the leaders. Any relationship you had with a higher power was between you and god, the Holy Spirit, not a person claiming to be "Christ in the Flesh.

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Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: Northerngate ()
Date: December 12, 2019 12:53AM

Hello all,
I just wanted to share this:
Regardless of where I am (we are) on this continuum, if I want freedom from mental bondage (and I do), I have begun to realize I have to make the long journey from “What will people think or do to me?” to “I am strong enough and smart enough.” For me, that journey begins with shame resilience, self-compassion, and owning my story.
To claim the truths about who I am, where I come from, what I believe, and the very imperfect nature of my life, I have to be willing to give myself a break and appreciate the beauty of my cracks or imperfections. To be kinder and gentler with myself and especially others who suffered. To talk to myself the same way I would talk to someone I care about.
This is so much easier to write about. Doing it is difficult!!! I still hear certain phrases that send me over the edge...

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Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: Northerngate ()
Date: December 12, 2019 01:59AM

I believe when you have enough little puzzle pieces from your memories it will all become clear that the Walk was not a Walk with God under the direction of the leaders.

Nancy B
I appreciate your information. I do not think it is silly that some things that went on in GP felt a little bit like the movie Eyes Wide Shut.

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Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: NancyB ()
Date: December 12, 2019 06:33AM

Northerngate, yes, I can see that about Eyes Shut.

I tend to blunt when I'm ready to blurt. Good for you being kind to yourself -
-so be careful not to put pressure on yourself to heal.

35 years out for me and I'm still healing. Puzzle pieces and words will send me over at times as well. I have to take a break fora while them binge read. I see tremendous progress in exposing and healing for so many in the last year.

My heart will always be with my family and friends from Washington - we'be be estranged because of the lies of the leaders. I'd like to have the mended. The 'family group' of my home town is in an entirely different position from those who came from other places. There are many differences with long time family bonds. So I'm trying to get the word out to as many as I can that I'd like to "do lunch again." and pass the hugs around again like we did in the old days.

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Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: Northerngate ()
Date: December 12, 2019 06:43AM

Nancy B
You said:
My heart will always be with my family and friends from Washington - we'be be estranged because of the lies of the leaders. I'd like to have the mended.

Bless you for working on the hard stuff! I hope you’ll feel my support and understanding. If you haven’t experienced psych control, it’s difficult to understand the issues a person faces. It takes years of hard work to undo the brainwash! I admire your work

NorthernGate

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Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: NancyB ()
Date: December 12, 2019 09:23AM

Northerngate; I did experience to the max that I could tolerate... then what did I go and do?

I fell into a the delusions of a narcissistic socio-path who pushed me to write a book about her - (sh-shh I was not supposed to tell that she created everything.) With me having a sign on my forehead that screamed vulnerable sucker use me! I felt comfortable befriend a person with the same kind of behavioral patterns used to gain control over people. It is uncanny!

When I had to move out of state to get away from that woman I started realizing how much her control tactics were just like the Walk.

Many of the people I grew up with in Wash Ia have lived their all their lives always had each other. Most did not get moved around to start new relationship in other "foreign bodies". My late ex got moved form here to there. ( another story) I saw thing sin CA that put me into a bad position of knowing too much and accidentally seeing too much. - The gas lighting was massive.

I could be wrong but I think the bad stuff was so filtered out for the Wash Ia/ Shiloh core families, if you did not know is where JRS father's church was since I think the '30's. Those families are pretty much related and been in the church for 4 to 5 generations while JRS was growing out ( When not in CA) My family brought in a number of families to the Ia church that were related to us or very close friends. This was all way before Shiloh. So my position is very different from other forum members that post.

Since my father-in-law was leader pushing me to "get my spirit right" ( I refused), I knew what was going on for quite few years after I left with my kids.
I would see TLWF members ( my home town) at funerals now and then. any way I want them to know that I care about the lousy situation they got left with. I do have contact with maybe 2 dozen old church friends who have been trying to figure out what the H happened. I heard some one say "it happened all so fast- Shiloh shutting down.)

And it will take a very long time to get their brains rewired if they chose. First accepting that they had been duped and lied to by leadership will be a shocking wake up call for them. The best I can do is to try to express how much I still care.

I don't really know much except from the forum what went on in all the other groups.

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Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: Northerngate ()
Date: December 12, 2019 10:25AM

Nancy B
I am so sorry you were preyed upon by a narcissistic sociopath after going through so much! You aren’t alone in having that happen. You are right that those kinds of people have an uncanny way of finding vulnerability in others.

Moving away from her probably helped a lot! I know it has helped me to completely disassociate with people who are willing to hurt me.

When you accidentally discover the sins of narcissists, you immediately become their scapegoat if you don’t buy into their way of life. They want to be worshiped and you didn’t worship them. That makes you the good guy so to speak. I’m a stranger but I’m so proud of you for standing your ground and coming out of that mess. I know from my own personal experience how painful it has been.

Of course they gaslight you and try to confuse you because you have the potential to expose their diabolical deeds.

The problem I see here, is that normal people, the kind that we want to be around, can’t grasp the depth of what we’ve been through and how we deal with it daily to become healthy. It’s like looking in a glass window at a restaurant watching other people enjoy, but the separation is there. We’re going to get on the other side of that glass if we keep working it out and exposing things for what they are. You encourage me soooo much and I can only hope I’ve encouraged you!
Hugs from NorthernGate

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Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: NancyB ()
Date: December 12, 2019 06:26PM

Good points Northerngate when you wrote on 12/12/19 "The problem I see here, is that normal people, the kind that we want to be around, can’t grasp the depth of what we’ve been through and how we deal with it daily to become healthy. It’s like looking in a glass window at a restaurant watching other people enjoy, but the separation is there."

People don't want to know = they want to go on with their lives and I don;t blame them.

Here's the real kicker: not only was I vulnerable to the next narcissist , but, every one who leaves The Walk have been "touched". We all will seek out what we know because it is more comfortable when we know what to expect even if not healthy.

The longer a "negative behavior" goes on the longer it takes to extinguish it. For everyone who where in TLWF those patterns of being abused will seem "normal".

For life long Wash Ia folks they have lived in Wash county all their lives- there's no moving back home to family. We or a family member gave up inheritances. We were supposed to get a nursing home to retire at- did not happen. We sacrificed with open arms for strangers to come to Shiloh - Now we are left with uncertainty, buildings to be bulldozed, and most not aware of the crimes that were committed nor all the other people who are struggling emotionally to find some sanity.

I don't know how my home town family will recover. I do know that their therapy will be different from the rest. I pray that they do no fall prey to another power and control abuser.

I'm stuck on trying to present the perspective of the mother church who had been very grounded in Bible for generations. I don;t think most in TLWF really appreciated the sacrifice Christian Tabernacle people made for Shiloh to be the Center of Earth.

thanks Northerngate. Take it one step at a time in healing. Most therapists will not get it either. As time goes on there will be more professionals trained to better help. I know my graduate student therapist is working hard on learning and working with many people who are recovering form "cults". Cult Education forum has provided so much helpful eyeopener information for free. Thanks to Rick Ross. Remember to slowly digest this free information to better educate yourself as you heal.

I am fortunate to be able to go where I go thru the university. My sessions are recorded for training of psychologists. The professor reviews and they help direct my therapy I have a safe back up this way.

I think there may be something in the works locally to get some support groups set up for ex - cult members in I C area. Ia folks can PM me as to where I am getting therapy.

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Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: Northerngate ()
Date: December 12, 2019 11:51PM

kBOY Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> N O R T H
>
>
> “You’re only as sick as your secrets.”
>
> A very powerful statement and the reason for so
> much psychological PTSD within the fellowship, due
> to, first the abuse, then the shunning, isolating
> the victim with their 'secrets'.
>
> This compartmentalization left victims separated
> from the very help that true shepherding would
> have addressed, had not the abuse COME from the
> 'shepherding'.
>
> World 'turned upside down' indeed . . .

KBOY, I was thinking about my landlord and the fact that he came from a wealthy family. From the outside it seems that he is in with the JRS elite, but I wonder. What if he has given all his inheritance away to them and in the end he’s left with the property he’s been on all these years. What if he’s been working hard for a goal that will never come about.
Also, what if he’s the one guy that could bring down the TLWF because of all he knows and all he’s been asked to do. What if instead of living in Hawaii with the mucky mucks, he turns them all in.
I really liked my landlord as a person. I always had a feeling he wanted out but after all these years he didn’t know how. Well, for what it’s worth, I still pray to God. Not man, but God. That he would right the wrongs and atrocities that have happened.
Thanks for letting me share my thoughts.

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Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: Liamthomasusa ()
Date: December 13, 2019 12:55AM

Onion .... you are way too twisted for color TV!!

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