Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: NancyB ()
Date: December 10, 2019 06:08AM

larry bobo Wrote: l
Date: September 19, 2018 12:01AM

I believe it is worth re-posting along with the rrmoderator comment.

thanks Larry and rr mod.
-------------------------------------------------------
> kBoy said:
> “It would have been difficult for anyone who spent
> any significant time in the fellowship to have
> avoided the disaster known as 'designated'
> relationships, built first on the apostolic
> hierarchy of Ephesians, and then refined with the
> Elijah/Elisha and Paul/Timothy iterations of the
> JRS era. The G&M era saw a much more destructive
> version that built a chain of such relationships
> from the platform all the way back to the nursery,
> assigning virtually everyone a
> 'Christ-in-the-flesh'. The result of this great
> experiment was widespread devastation, as
> completely unqualified individuals were given the
> decision-making power over others. Those who seem
> to have avoided these dynamics were really not
> considered to be a 'part of the fellowship.'”
>
> First of all, I think it is important to point out
> that the “apostolic hierarchy of Ephesians” is
> what TLWF taught, not what Ephesians actually
> says. These ministries were gifts to equip the
> body so that they would not be “blown here and
> there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning
> and craftiness of men in their deceitful
> scheming”. Legitimate leadership would have
> protected you from the likes of the leadership of
> TLWF. I would suggest that most in TLWF have
> never even been exposed to leadership that is
> there to serve them, rather than use them for
> their own personal gain.
>
> There is a huge difference between a counselor
> that has been professionally trained and those we
> served under in TLWF. The lack of qualifications
> became even more apparent in designated
> relationships, but I would suggest that there was
> always a lack of qualifications clear to the top –
> including John. I don’t think designated
> relationships were ever about helping people, but
> about controlling and keeping tabs on them. After
> I left my local church, my former pastor, who had
> been kicked out of the fellowship, told me that he
> could not believe I would continue to do what he
> asked. It was never about helping me, but about
> breaking my spirit to become more obedient. I
> might also note that his strategies were being
> directed by Apco and Apco's strategies by G&M. As
> soon as there was an obvious problem, G&M would
> cut ties to the local pastor and claim the pastor
> did not have their spirit and therefore they were
> not responsible.

Quote
rr moderator Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: rrmoderator ()
Date: September 19, 2018 12:28AM

larry bobo,

Thanks for that clarification concerning scripture.

Another thing that's quite important when dealing with supposedly bible based groups is to recognize how the leader may have twisted the scriptures.

Getting a good mainstream study bible and talking with a qualified biblical scholar with recognized credentials (i.e. seminary degree from a well recognized and accredited college and seminary) is very helpful.

A good study bible has footnotes to reflect what each and every scripture is understood to mean as based upon a historical consensus of biblical scholars. A biblical scholar of the New Testament often can read the original version in Greek, which is important in resolving a conflict. Old Testament scholars often read Hebrew and/or Aramaic.

All of this study may help a former member to unwind the manipulation of the group from a scriptural perspective.

This is not about telling people what to believe, but rather studying the common historical understanding and translation of the bible as it was originally written and historically understood. Good study bibles also reflect controversies regarding certain verses.

So often destructive supposedly bible based cults twist the meaning of scriptures for self-serving reasons.

The primary question should be -- How does this relatively odd understanding of a scripture empower the leader and afford him or her control over the members?

If the leader's interpretation is self-serving and affects people's lives it should be examined closely and studied to make sure it is historically and contextually accurate.

This is the difference between using the bible for faith, revelation and enlightenment, as opposed to using as a personal tool to leverage people and manipulate them.


Options: ReplyQuote
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: Northerngate ()
Date: December 10, 2019 06:14AM

NancyB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> kBOY Wrote:December 04, 2019 06:05AM
> -------------------------------------------------------
> > P U D D
> >
> > Regarding the internet, it does cut both ways.
> > Those with smarts to tailor their message (and
> > squelch opposing voices) can present themselves
> as
> > the new 'Wizard of Oz' and ensnare a whole new
> > generation that believes everything on the
> > internet is the 'gospel truth'.
> >
> > Most of us by now have at least heard of the
> 'dark
> > web' which is able to perpetrate the most
> > egregious behavior almost unabated.[/b] As a
> result,
> > human-trafficking is at an all-time
> high--evidence
> > of just how nefarious the medium can be, not
> for
> > exposure, but for deception.
>
> WARNING! May cause a panic. I'm sorry...I
> feel my next sentence has to be said.
>
> I have held back with a thought that I have had
> previous experience with in another non related
> situation. I want to puke and shudder as I dare
> type my question which is not a fact - only
> something to consider questioning.

>
> Before the building is bulldozed, will someone,
> please, please, please, survey for wrongly placed
> cameras????
>
> There I typed it- wasn't hard to do as I had
> struggled with. The hardest part will be for those
> who read this who may have been unaware that
> private moments may have been violated and
> illegally shared. Again, I am not saying
> this as a fact
- only wondering so that we may
> have some one investigate the air ducts or
> fixtures where cameras could have been hidden.
>
> I feel bad for asking when the emotions have
> changed currently on this forum.

Hi PUDD,
I thought I was paranoid because I thought my landlord had bugged my cottage. A couple of times I woke up hearing noise outside me bedroom window. I told myself it was deer.
I also knew that during Halloween an elite group from the community went to a big party together. They met at the church and went from there. The children were babysat at the church and watched video by Gangnam Style. I thought too adult for children under 12. Also the kids were given huge boxing gloves to hit each other with. I left and went home so I don’t know.
I noticed that sometimes my landlord posted a “nice” photo of himself on FB but occasionally he would post what looked like an “evil” photo. I am suspicious so I always wondered if it was code for his moods or something.
Oh well. I hope my suspicions aren’t true. I think when the elite partied, they partied hard. I wouldn’t have been comfortable doing what I think they allowed themselves to do.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: NancyB ()
Date: December 10, 2019 06:33AM

Northerngate replying to your comment December 10, 2019 06:14AM:

WOW! What can I say? Aren't we all paranoid about looking paranoid?

Well, there is the excuse it was "your guardian angles protecting you?' bullshit that was used on me by an un-related narcissist psycho path decades after I left the walk.

The equipment is available for any creep with e to buy and use as they please. I hope it is not true. I can only wish that my aspirations as a psycho thriller novelist could only be made up and never happen to good people.

You situation sounds so creepy gross. I'm so sorry.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: Northerngate ()
Date: December 10, 2019 07:21AM

Onion, Reepicheep, kBOY, Nancy B, PUDD,
Who I should be what I should be how I should be...
Every effort to twist my way out of the web just leads to becoming more stuck.
Well, the slow brainwash happened, and the vast majority of it was directed to reinforcing those ideas the abuser, dad and my two exs’, said was normal, but was not!
I clearly see that posts here sometimes trigger shame in me and I have to quickly reality-check the message I’m receiving. Yes, my ignorance still hurts. Yes, I am still pissed. Yes, I cry my eyes out on occasion. Yes, I want to disappear (fight or flight). But I am trying to give myself permission to feel these things for a couple of hours or days, then I reach out, talk through my feelings with people I trust and love,(2 people) and I move on. (I try very hard to move on)

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: Northerngate ()
Date: December 10, 2019 07:30AM

NancyB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Northerngate replying to your comment December
> 10, 2019 06:14AM:
>
> WOW! What can I say? Aren't we all paranoid about
> looking paranoid?
>
> Well, there is the excuse it was "your guardian
> angles protecting you?' bullshit that was used on
> me by an un-related narcissist psycho path decades
> after I left the walk.
>
> The equipment is available for any creep with e to
> buy and use as they please. I hope it is not true.
> I can only wish that my aspirations as a psycho
> thriller novelist could only be made up and never
> happen to good people.
>
> You situation sounds so creepy gross. I'm so
> sorry.

You are very gracious and affirming. I hope your novels kick ass. Keep me posted!
NorthernGate

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: kBOY ()
Date: December 10, 2019 10:24AM

N O R T H / N A N C Y b


It is interesting that both of you have chosen writing as therapy. Bringing darkness to LIGHT comes in many forms, either by talking to a therapist or documenting events in words, be they literal or fictional. The sheer act of unpacking damage that may have been inventoried for years in our subconscious is the first step in deciding to ultimately clean house and no longer be burdened with the baggage.

Every darkness we expose to the LIGHT, lessens our burden and increases our LIGHT.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: Northerngate ()
Date: December 10, 2019 12:12PM

Thank you kBOY. You are so right about that!!!

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: NancyB ()
Date: December 10, 2019 01:03PM

Northerngate, it has been tough for years to process. Take it slow and easy.

I've had a ton more flash backs,again. The interesting thing now is that I am no longer disturbed as i once was.

New pieces of the puzzle will trigger me. I have been able to be better rested and in a more healthy state than I had been. Being in a less medically vulnerable state with those pieces, I have more clarity to hypothesize on some weird things in a productive way.

Onion has been encouraging self nurturing. that is something that was not in my bag of tricks for myself - others, yes. My point is being in an over all healthy state is helping me not only move forward but give me more ideas on where and how to dig up "dirt" to find resolution with the emotional stress.

Researching for my writing, has helped me understand why I felt like I was chasing my tail. It was not me - it was the crazy - makers tactics.

I have to ask about Halloween and that crew. Wait, how do I ask? M-m-m? well, I always had an idea that South Gate and the Valley had been infiltrated by the hard core witch craft/ satanists- not sure what the whole seemingly coven was.

Anyone, could it be possible that these hard core parties Northengate saw were more than Halloween-ish? Not trying to start a rumor nor trigger anyone- tho' it is very likely.

Any thought, anyone? ( I may have too creative of an imagination as i question. At least we may be able to eliminate some ideas as we explore the possibilities with more little pieces..

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: Reepicheep ()
Date: December 10, 2019 09:39PM

NancyB, I don't know about covens in LA churches. Sometimes I do wonder, where in the Bible did JRS get the idea to have members praying or prophesying for people to die? I don't find chapter and verse saying that Mordecai prayed for Haman to die, or that Peter prayed for Ananias and Saphira to die. Most people in The Walk probably didn't even know that the crazy "violent declaration" was for actual people to die. They thought that they were taking down Satan and his evil hordes in the spirit realm.

It's possible that "The Apostle to the Kingdom" got this stuff from his extensive hidden library on dark occult practices. Or from his own twisted mind...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/10/2019 09:40PM by Reepicheep.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: NancyB ()
Date: December 11, 2019 07:19AM

GoingRogue re-posted a Post by Onion on August 07, 2018 09:35AM and made some good comments.

I think this entire thread is worth reviewing and valuable to any newbies who have not be able read and digest all 1,000+ pages.

We've asked the question over and over as to why the Hargraves and other TLWF leaders did not stop the abuses, but, went to great lengths to cover up criminal acts.

We on this forum who have been labeled by the Walk as "blow outs" or Jezebels or labeled some other biblical bad ass name have been sharing puzzles pieces of the tangled web of deceit of The church of the Living word founded as a cult under John Robert Stevens. At his death, JRS former mistress and 2nd wife Marilyn Holbroook Stevens and her lover, a married man were at the time were allegedly passed the proverbial mantle of the kingdom from JRS death bed.

The Hargraves amassed more wealth at the expense of the people who gave from their hearts and sacrificed every thing for the sake of Jesus Kingdom on Earth.

We forum members claim in good faith from what we personally witnessed this was a huge fraud. A long side the fraud were untold amounts of sexual abuses. It is horrifying to note that Marilyn's son was among the serial abusers yet nothing was done to stop him- only set up more innocent victims then covered a it up.

I personally state from my training as a mandatory reporter and having spoken with JRS and other leaders in the 1970 and '80's that something has to be done about the situations I knew about. Speaking to the leadership got me verbally sh*t on. They were dead wrong. As a professional I knew it - I "escaped" knowing that I was beating my head against a brick wall and my family was not safe.

This part of the discussion thread talks about the issues of TLWF leadership trying to avoid the law by not doing their legal duty of reporting abuses.



Onion Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Onion Wrote:
> -------------------------------------------------------
> > Mandatory Reporters include every level
> > imageineable of school employees.
> >
> > In 1963 mental health professionals became
> > mandated reporters and that was all. As the
> years
> > went by, the law was amended MANY times to
> include
> > every other type of professional that might
> come
> > into knowledge of, or reasonably suspecr, child
> > abuse. INCLUDING THE CLERGY.
> >
> > I am not sure when Clergy were added to the
> list
> > of mandated reporters but I DO remember the
> > reaction of the walk church leaders
> (specifically
> > G&M). I estimate it was in the late 80's or
> early
> > 90's because I was still working in legal stuff
> > with Dan Statton.
> >
> > Gary wanted to know if the walk ministries
> could
> > avoid this requirement under the
> clergy-penitent
> > privilege exercised by the Catholic church to
> > protect them from having to communicate what
> was
> > heard in the confessional. I believe G&M had
> > gotten some legal input that yes, the church
> > ministries would be protected from having to
> > report what was learned in the form of a
> > confession.
> >
> > But I did some research and I don't think that
> > argument would ever hold up for the walk
> > ministries because the methods and
> confidentiality
> > were so helter skelter. The requirements under
> > the clergy-penitent privilege are very tight
> and
> > very strict.
> >
> > The walk churches response to this issue was to
> > officially/formally ordain everyone they could
> > think of so that those people could claim
> > privilege and not be "confused" about what they
> > might have heard or about their responsibility
> to
> > report various issues to the authorities.
> >
> > This was very confusing to me back then
> although,
> > sadly, I think I have a better understanding
> now
> > for what the motivation was at that time. Now
> I'm
> > not confused, just deeply disgusted.
> >
> > I have a pamphlet that describes California's
> > mandatory reporting laws. This pamphlet is
> from
> > 2013 so the law may have been amended since
> then
> > but I believe every time the law is amended it
> is
> > done for the purpose of making the requirement
> > more strict and far reaching. It is too large
> to
> > attach here but I will see if I can shorten it
> > down so I can share it on this forum.
> >
> > I wonder what the policy is in the COL school.
>
> I have to say that this new revelation is shocking
> and digusting. Mandatory reporting is for
> reporting various kinds of abuse of children and
> others. I'm having a hard time understanding the
> purpose of not wanting to report known abusers.
>
> Possibly they wanted abusers to confess. The
> information could then be used to control those
> people? Or they would have had to report too many
> pastors and apostles? Or it could have made the
> church look bad in some way? I'm at a loss.


NancyB, my opinion in reply August 07, 2018 12:52PM has a link to some good information on Mandatory reporter. I highly suggest any one simply reading the forum and questioning the members concerns - maybe not wanting to trust us, to please research a bit on child abuse and Mandatory Reporting on your own then ask question of the people still in your groups. This issue is NOT the twisted 'Spiritual Assault' against Hargraves and Holbrook that has been denied by TLWF. It is the law.

I hope you read this link and I'd love your feedback on whether my thoughts seems to fit the bill . Please note the act of " omission".
[criminal-law.freeadvice.com]

Here's a clickable link for Iowa. the law has been updated a number of times over the years. [www.lawserver.com]

[criminal.findlaw.com]

Should it be mandatory to report suspected child abuse? Please note the laws vary from state to state somewhat. Shiloh 'was' in Iowa.

Although anyone can report child abuse and are encouraged to do so, mandatory reporters are required by law to make a report of suspected child abuse within 24 hours of becoming aware of the concern(s). If a child is in imminent danger, CALL 911 immediately.
Mandatory Reporter Information | Iowa Department of Human ...
dhs.iowa.gov/child-welfare/mandatoryreporter
[dhs.iowa.gov]



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 12/11/2019 07:31AM by NancyB.

Options: ReplyQuote


Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
This forum powered by Phorum.