Here is another thought. Has anyone else considered that the walk may not die out, but may pick up steam and regenerate? Stranger things have happened. Look at Mormonism. What were the odds that it would go anywhere with that crazy story of its inception? Yet it is a force to be reckoned with in the religious world (despite intense hilarious ridicule by South Park). The walk has been around longer since Stevens' death than when he was alive. This to me is a tremendous testimony to his charisma and force of his personality. We can love or hate him, debate all day about when and where he went wrong, if he was wrong, if he was ever right, but the guy was a tremendous success. He started the walk, apparently made good money, apparently was a hit with the ladies, had big influence and a great life. Nobody will be talking about me 30 years after my death but a lot of people are talking about Stevens. Gary and Marilyn are also successful at what they do, which is to keep money coming in and promote themselves, using John as their backdrop. If the next person keeps it rolling, and the next and next, when will it ever end? 100 years from now will that ending be rewritten with the resurrection of John? Will every This Week and every sermon transcription finally be canonized into a new Bible? Or do you think the walk will end in our generation?

Lamp, I've thought about that quite a bit. I think it becomes less and less likely due to the free flow of information online these days, but it behooves us to make sure the truth about the walk is easily available online. The only way people get sucked in is if they don't know about the fringe beliefs up-front. The problem is that from the outside, TLWF looks like a pretty standard evangelical-style church. The fringier beliefs of discipleship, spiritual warfare, prophetic communities, resurrection life, etc. are only revealed to established members.

I firmly believe that if prospective members and families and friends of prospective members had access to the true beliefs of the walk online, membership rates would plummet. The question is, how can we make these readily available online?

LampShmamp Wrote:

> How do we know what Stevens was
> worth, by the way? Has anyone ever gotten their
> hands on his tax returns, divorce records, will,
> bank statements, etc? Anybody ever actually trace
> where all that money for property came from, or
> verified where his assets went after his divorce
> and death? Was ownership held mostly in his name
> or in the Living Word?
_________________________________________________________

I think all that most of us know is based upon Martha Steven's belief at the time of the divorce that Stevens and the churches were worth about 30 million. Your questions thought might be a great research project for say a retiree or as you put it "an old shmuck."

Ditch_Digging_Yasper Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lamp, I've thought about that quite a bit. I think
> it becomes less and less likely due to the free
> flow of information online these days, but it
> behooves us to make sure the truth about the walk
> is easily available online. The only way people
> get sucked in is if they don't know about the
> fringe beliefs up-front. The problem is that from
> the outside, TLWF looks like a pretty standard
> evangelical-style church. The fringier beliefs of
> discipleship, spiritual warfare, prophetic
> communities, resurrection life, etc. are only
> revealed to established members.
>
> I firmly believe that if prospective members and
> families and friends of prospective members had
> access to the true beliefs of the walk online,
> membership rates would plummet. The question is,
> how can we make these readily available online?

______________________________________________________________
Great post and I agree with your thoughts about the free flow of information online. Maybe even a movie video, you know "The John Miller Story." Ha Ha,I know that's far fetched but so many young people know a lot about video production and who knows maybe another Tony Cox like artist will emerge from TLWF.

Ditch--may I call you Ditch?--that is good logic, but I notice the free flow of information isn't resulting in fewer cults or less bizarre beliefs out there. People will believe anything. The pope is infallible--why not Marilyn? And believing that one or two persons are the ticket into the kingdom isn't really all that far fetched. After all, it has been 2000 years, and Jesus hasn't returned. One could make the argument that something is seriously off there. Personally, I say 2000 years is long enough, we have been duped, it just ain't happening. Change the premise and move on. But people love their premises and go to great lengths to preserve them. Therefore, the time elapsed shows that Jesus is waiting for us to do something different, something righter. If waiting for 2000 years has brought about nothing, then taking the kingdom by force might bring about something. Of course we know that also won't work. Nothing will. But unless the original premise is abandoned these people are compelled to think they are still doing something wrong, that Jesus wants very much to rule his earth kingdom, but his hands are tied. It is their fault, not his, that he has not returned to rule. Frankly, Jesus isn't looking all that kingly if he has to rely on this bunch of ragamuffins to turn the trick. A mighty people, indeed. Everybody gets to be important. But I digress. At present, the walk cult is only slightly off the deep end of fundamental Christianity, nowhere near Heavens Gate and Jonestown. Yet we don't know what dangers it may present down the road. I don't think anybody will ever be convinced of the perils of the walk by a scriptural debate as to the real meaning and intent of Christianity. Walkers can persuasively argue scripture as well as or better than anybody. The way I see it, the way to dissuade future cult members is to publicly expose the leaders in a verifiable manner. By now somebody must have researched the financial, divorce, and death records to make that start. That aside, I am interested in your idea about online access to the true beliefs. Wikipedia?

LampShmamp Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How do we know what Stevens was
> worth, by the way? Has anyone ever gotten their
> hands on his tax returns, divorce records, will,
> bank statements, etc? Anybody ever actually trace
> where all that money for property came from, or
> verified where his assets went after his divorce
> and death? Was ownership held mostly in his name
> or in the Living Word?

Only a Nephilim would seek answers to these questions. You're most likely descended from Anak!!

Hey, doncha know? We're all nephs.

I love the term "walkers"

Does that make Shiloh sort of a "Terminus"?

LampShmamp wrote: "Walkers can persuasively argue scripture as well as or better than anybody."

-------------------------

I seriously doubt a “walker” could persuasively argue against submission to super apostles and prophets.


My dog doesn’t seem to worry about the purpose of existence. Food is “the kingdom” for my dog. On the other hand our evolved human brain is causing much pain because of its need for purpose and understanding. Short story: Unfortunately, whichever religion/philosophy gains the field determines our individual quality of life especially in the area of personal freedom and choice. That is very scary to me because I really do hate having my choices determined by some mere mortal who’s “ IQ ” leaves much to be desired.

I was in the cult------------It was hell having to submit to idiots! A few years of slavery in any cult turns freedom into "the kingdom". I reject any “god” that uses force and coercion to enslave rather than freedom and liberty to emancipate.

FCSLC Wrote:
> I was in a cult. It was hell having to
> submit to idiots!

I'm normally not into bumper stickers, but I think this would make a great one. Thanks FCSLC!

Many of us who are business owners have learned that our most valuable lessons have come from our biggest mistakes. Very few successful entrepenuers have a flawless track record. Most overnight success stories have a history of many struggling years behind them. It’s those struggles that develop the strength and wisdom we need to be successful in the business arena today. The fact that a particular business has failed – most do – does not mean there are no successful businesses.

The same lessons apply to our spiritual lives. In hindsight, it is much easier to see the flaws in TLWF. The big personal lesson for me is to not let another human take the place of God – they are attempting to sell something for profit or power that they don’t even possess themselves. After a spiritual failure, some will choose the illusion of safety and bury their talent. Others choose to remain an “employee” – “You seek God for me and tell me what He says” – afraid of personal responsibility. Many on the other extreme will declare “All businesses are corrupt” or go so far as to say “A successful businesses doesn’t’ even exist – it’s all foolishness and a waste of time”. The kingdom is a treasure hidden in a field that is hidden from the casual observer. However, it's good to note that there are those reaping the benefits of the kingdom right now in this life – “without observation”.

Jesus gave us a heads up about the journey when he said in Matthew 7:13-20, “13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it. 15 “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thorn bushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit.19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.” Those words should have far more personal meaning now than they did a few decades ago. The fruit is the fruit of the Spirit.

Jesus began many of his teachings with “If any man wants to…” It is a freedom of choice – not the control exercised by many religious leaders. You most likely will be hard pressed to find the fruit of the Spirit on the platforms of most churches – if that helps. My burden for those who have had contact with TLWF is that they receive the reward of their sufferings. To do so, we must keep walking. I’m so thankful for my time in TLWF. There were many times I asked to leave and He said, “No”. I know now that there were lessons I would not have learned any other way. As in the story of Joseph, “They meant it for harm, but God meant it for good.” It makes no sense that the fruit of the Spirit would come out of suffering – it just does.