C H A N G E D

"Absent any formal complaint of coerced sexual or other criminal misconduct, 'religious freedom' protects the otherwise guilty until far too late."
That's definitely an unfortunate paradigm, with the results causing widespread damage.

". . . it’s also possible that credible and formal complaints of coercion and sexual abuse of minors had long been made on Stevens and Rick that were, or were not, properly investigated ."
Knowing how well JRS managed 'covert operations' makes this all the more plausible now.

kBOY Wrote:

> Knowing how well JRS managed 'covert operations'
> makes this all the more plausible now.

There is no more appropriate place to have a one-on-one Bible study than a Van Nuys' motel room.
-Kingdom Proverb
/s

C H A N G E D

What better place to 'wait on God' than a remote motel room?

Don't forget all those Holy Jim Canyon junkets with the 'administrative assistant' along to transcribe the 'weird' as it came.

Preserving the weird was of the utmost importance.

Post by 'Saw Enough' from September of 2018:

Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: Saw enough
Date: September 28, 2018 01:21PM

In December 1972 Brother Stevens disappeared for an entire day and a few days later he went to the Valley Church and claimed that he'd been caught up in the spirit and taken 7 years into the future where he saw the Kingdom. As he explained his vision and his sense of losing all track of time that day, some of the young prophets speculated about black holes and time warps in the spirit where time did not matter. That vision of the Kingdom became the basis for a lot of the preaching for the next 7 years.

Many people and churches dedicated their lives and their survival planning and their life decisions around that 7-year date and the revelation that John was the apostle to the Kingdom. Twenty years later a woman from the Valley church got word to Gary and Marilyn that she had been with John on that December 12th in 1972. A lot of people around the Living Word building gossiped about the story, but nobody said or perhaps knows if John actually had his vision that day or if he was just with someone not his wife for the day. Aimee McPherson once disappeared mysteriously and later claimed that she'd been kidnapped and taken to Mexico or somewhere -- it's not that uncommon for ministers to try to cover their tracks.

It's like a Mormon hearing that Joseph Smith hadn't really found magic tablets and translated a new version of the Bible for latter day saints. How do you say, okay maybe that didn't happen but the rest of our church is still the true church of the end time. Joseph Smith's vision was not confirmed by others and John's claims were not really confirmed by others -- he was the leader and knowing that he had a special insight into the Kingdom was a draw.

Nothing about this disclosure was mentioned to the churches -- other than a few veiled words about how John's real problem was disobedience -- and not giving himself enough to Marilyn. (Another warning for people to shape up and get with the program.) Gary warned cryptically that things might be coming down that would shake people's loyalty but it would only be proof that they never had a revelation.

One of Rick's escapades also surfaced sometime in the 90s but he was not the only thing that was wrong in the fellowship. Going back to the 70s there were dozens of accounts of financial and sexual abuse by the pastors of many of the large churches, along with mistreatment of the people. After Gary & Marilyn took over, there was still large scale psychological abuse and reckless shepherding that left a lot of casualties. Marilyn had anger issues and would often lash out violently at those she felt were violating her spirit or offending her. This was interpreted as how the Lord felt about those people, especially since she was being promoted as the Lord in the earth and there was no "God in the sky" or "God in your brain" that you could trust. Submission to her as Christ in the flesh was the order of the day.

For every young person who came forth as a talented and accomplished adult, there were many more who were cast aside or labeled or discarded. Amazingly, Gary Hargrave has continued to promote John's vision as the plumbline for the fellowship even after he knew the background. (He might know something that no one else knows.)

Maybe the fellowship is in its death throes and is winding down due to dwindling membership, an aging congregation and the urgent need for finances to support the many facilities on an annual basis. It is also harder to isolate people from the world around them since they have so much access to what's going on outside the church walls. The messages follow the same pattern of Feasts and winter months and Purims to celebrate Marilyn and Passovers to leave Egypt and summer camps to be the prophets who rule the nations, along with reaching out to other churches and groups. But while the messages may be getting more orthodox in their delivery, their claims about how they are changing the whole earth are -- who knows?

For sure there is a crisis of confidence and trust -- similar to the Catholic church where the highest leaders are saying "We had no idea of the extent of the corruption in our midst." But the corruption was institutionalized through the years -- which is why it's kept repeating itself.

It's possible that the whole movement has just run its course and the world is waiting for others who can find a way to make a difference without hurting so many people in the process. They might not even come out of the Christian world

We've still been given a precious opening to move on. The past abuses were painful and for sure left scars but it doesn't mean some of your best days are not still ahead of you, not behind you.

The name I chose for this forum is Saw enough -- I don't want to focus on the past that much and I'm no expert with an inside track but I saw enough to feel that it is better to be out of there than in there.

C H A N G E D

It is interesting that this comment was posted on September 28, 2018, shortly before Shalom's disclosure.

". . . things might be coming down that would shake people's loyalty but it would only be proof that they never had a revelation."

I personally heard this 'justification' wielded at a number of our friends who decided to abandon ship long before it began to sink below the surface.

"Going back to the 70s there were dozens of accounts of financial and sexual abuse by the pastors of many of the large churches, along with mistreatment of the people."

The demographic majority back in those days was made up mostly of 20-somethings who had signed on with the 'door-opener apostle' in order to usher in the kingdom. Those not affected directly by these egregious acts were easily distracted by the narrative from the 'top' (pick your church) which was carefully controlled. (Reference NANCYb's situation previously.)

The specific perpetrators were from an older generation who had already refined their techniques within a religious context that used 'scriptural justifications' (later utilized by Rick Holbrook, 'I am John's son'.) in order to execute their desires at the expense of the sheeple.

"Marilyn had anger issues and would often lash out violently at those she felt were violating her spirit or offending her. This was interpreted as how the Lord felt about those people,"

This coming from the self-proclaimed 'lamp of Israel' who was setting the tone for the entire fellowship. This paradigm is what eventually filtered down into all the 'shepherd-training' that culminated in the damage that followed.

"For every young person who came forth as a talented and accomplished adult, there were many more who were cast aside or labeled or discarded."

This is one of the biggest tragedies of all, since it is in the days of our youth that we want the support to 'be all we can be' for everyone's benefit, instead of being met with efforts that undermine that very dynamic.

"Amazingly, Gary Hargrave has continued to promote John's vision as the plumbline for the fellowship even after he knew the background."

This is somewhat astounding in light of the fact that basically NONE of the 'visions' (fantasies?) promoted by JRS have ever come to pass. There is really not much material left to work with, which is why the perennial 'new day' (Groundhog's Day) has been continually held out like a carrot on a stick. In reality it is was just the same-old-same-old.

". . . corruption was institutionalized through the years -- which is why it's kept repeating itself."

Those held spellbound by the 'magic' of the word delivered by JRS certainly did not realize that they were simply having their 'ears tickled' (distracted) just enough to take away any focus from the 'wizard behind the curtain' and all the hypocrisy lying therein.

"I saw enough to feel that it is better to be out of there than in there."

AMEN to that.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/15/2020 11:00AM by kBOY.

Changed and kBOY, thanks for re-posting and delving into Saw Enough's thoughts from September 18, 2018. I remember hearing about JRS' "trip to the future" very well. I wouldn't learn about the circumstances surrounding his "vision" until forty-six years later, or twenty-six years after Gary and Marilyn Hargrave discovered the truth...that he had been with a young woman and that the "revelation" probably never occurred. That young woman, who was also a victim, was not his wife, Martha, nor his (as we now know) mistress, Marilyn Holbrook.

And, as if all of this knowledge isn't bad enough, added to that were the outright lies that governed JRS' direction over thousands of lives, young and old alike. Many young people lived like doomsday preppers, forgoing an education to work for Kingdom Businesses and put their meager earnings into plans for the endtime tribulation. What kind of man does this to people that he ostensibly loves and cares for? Did he believe his own lies? Highly doubtful.

What about G&M, who perpetuated the lies for their own glorification and benefit in the form of power and wealth? Is it fair for Gary to resign, retire, move on to a new ministry, or whatever euphemism he is using at present? I hope that he is held accountable.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/15/2020 10:36PM by Reepicheep.

R E E P

It has all been a really big pill to swallow considering the 'vision' we signed up for compared to the actual facts on the ground. Every 'revelation' further dilutes the 'revelation' we thought we had.

Sadly, nothing more than a pipe-dream from the start.

Reep wrote:
What about G&M, who perpetuated the lies for their own glorification and benefit in the form of power and wealth? Is it fair for Gary to resign, retire, move on to a new ministry, or whatever euphemism he is using at present? I hope that he is held accountable.

I do too. But meanwhile he is pursing, yet again, a 'higher calling'.

Wow. We have some very potent reading here. thanks, everyone for contributing.

I believe it is important to put into to perspective the sad reality that if anyone had complained back in the '60s even, our cries would have been ignored on the social level. society failed to protect. The law failed to protect. But, Christian ethics were always there. Our 'church' should have Biblically speaking taken care of its sheep."

I gave some quotes and links below for the younger readers of this forum. These 2 links focus on sexual misconduct -s which is a powerful tool to wield for power and control over another person. It is power and control that JRS wanted when he began his "mission". His actions are not unlike all the other cult leaders and powerful people in the US and the world.
"They" take what they want and they do what they want. That is the way is was - acceptable. People rarely talked about being taken advantage of like we were. This did not make wrongful actions right.

None of our parents had a clue of what to do. None of us 20-something had enough life experience. What a perfect bunch of people for JRS to control- then M & G to take over. If not us "they" would have found victims elsewhere
.
I don't know if there would have been any recourse for anyone who went to the law decades ago once we were trapped and had wounds,

Where do we go from here? Perhaps we can help the future to learn from our past. I believe our discussions on this forum matter and will be valuable in the future.

Historically lawmakers did not recognize the problems Until 1974 or 1975. Laws currently have needed to be made or changed in order to address the crap we are trying to recover from.



Do you remember Anita Hill?

Quote
Before Anita Hill Time Magazine
n the mid-1970s, as the women’s liberation movement began to challenge a justice system — as well as a culture at large — that failed to recognize women’s consent. The campaign against sexual harassment was the natural extension of the grassroots anti-rape and anti-battering movements, which grew out of consciousness-raising sessions in which women shared personal stories and realized they were not alone in their experiences.

The phrase “sexual harassment” was coined in 1975, by a group of women at Cornell University.
By the 1920s, working women were advised to simply quit their jobs if they could not handle the inevitable sexual advances.

For decades, there were few significant changes in the ways women were treated at work. Those who complained discovered that sexually predatory behavior on the job was dismissed as trivial and harmless. Women rarely talked openly about the issue, although the situation only became more pressing as their participation in the workforce increased throughout the 1960s and 1970s.
[time.com]

Quote
Placing Childhood Sexual Abuse into Historical Perspective

Not until 1974, when Congress passed the Child Abuse Prevention and Treatment Act, were states required to establish reporting requirements in suspected cases.

Sexual abuse of children is far from new.
But if the sexual abuse of minors is anything but a recent phenomenon, only intermittently has this country focused on the problem. Three conclusions grow out of the historical study of the sexual abuse of minors. The first is how slowly and unevenly American society has come to recognize the simple fact that the sexual abuse of minors is wrong and inflicts lasting trauma.

The second is that in attempting to understand the sexual abuse of minors, expert opinion has often shown more understanding for the perpetrators than the victims, overemphasizing victims’ resilience and minimizing the abusers’ responsibility and the corporate cultures and institutional arrangements that facilitate abuse.

The third key finding is that bureaucratic institutions that operate outside public scrutiny have dealt consistently with the sexual abuse by denying its reality, ignoring its existence, claiming that it is an anomaly and aberration, castigating accusers, and failing to hold perpetrators to account.

[tif.ssrc.org]

N A N C Y b

Harvey Weinstein and Jeffery Epstein notwithstanding, even with all the legislative advancements you listed, the world cannot even keep up with how technology has facilitated the explosion of the more egregious offenses of human trafficking and modern enslavement.

Until LOVE, JOY & PEACE become our LIGHT, these aberrations will continue to proliferate in darkness.