Hey NickelandDimed. You asked " do you know. If the probe involved hypnotism? Can't recall if someone on the forum said that. Or did Nichols say it was John hypnotizing members."

I don't know who Nichols is that he thinks he can tell it all. Unless he was an opportunist in the back room and trying to profit off of the good people who were taken advantage of.

I wish I could give you a complete answer. i can't. I only have pieces. I know many are wondering. I want to not lead anyone astray since my memory is spotty. I think I want it that way.

The hypnosis thing is something I have been looking for answers on for decades. My personal reasons also include my relative and tother molesting me and a woman who claimed to talk to the angels. All different stories, but the same distrubing patterns, coincidntally with naracists I have known.

( Off track example: did you ever go to a slumber party in junior high and play dumb games like Truth or DAre? that dumb game has historically caused a lot pain when some one tells a deep secret and the other girls blab it all over the place. I think the probe was far worse.)

I only have a second or 2 long flash backs. I am fortunate to have my grown son willing to listen to me as i work thru lots of crap from other similar situations. I have been "open to that kind of assualt" as they would say in the walk.

From resources that I had read or discussed "hypnosis" and my spotty memory in my opinion I truly beleive that the "probe" DID involve hypnosis elements.
i was never involved in any probe with any member of the the walk as a witness in the back room. But I may have been for myself. I will explain.

I can remember and see pictures in my head in the Anahheim church that I was to be called in for a "probe". I knew others had been probed. I recall not good feeling after some were probed. I have no real answer to give at this time. I can not say the probe is related or not. But at the time I know we had a number of "before their time deaths" that were as i recall werecalled to the side room for minstry. It was obvious they were having issues. So at first I thought nothing of it but "love". Suicide or drug ovedose. then my mind had question I never got answered People got moved around to other churches. ( I mentioned in another comment if any one ever wondered why some people were sent to Shiloh. My husband got moved around...he could not keep a job. So verily verly God want you to move to this other church..you are under asualt here.)


I was called in for "ministry" all to often. I did not work in kingdom business. My mother was on that prayer list. My father in law was a big shot. I worked as a RN. that seperted me from some things. I wondered if they wanted to know how much I knew about stuff that was confidental. We will never know as most of those brothers are long dead.

I do remember being in a side room with the Anaheim brothers several times. I was fearful of my "secrets being exposed" as me being so horrible and bad that I was not worthy of love...I am blank...it ended up that the brothers reamed me out for being a non submissive wife . They called me a bitch and other things I don't think Jesus would say. I needed help. I do have a mental health diagnosis..does not mean I am evil unless you were in the walk. PDST is not sin.

If you know anything about being married to some one who has addiction problems you know that things are disfunctional. The brothers were supposed to help me....weeks or months later they put me on the prayer list for my death. they all covered for their own dirty secrets including my husband's. ( I had to call in social service to ask for help for my children. I am so glad I did.)

Did they find out my 'secrets" I feared through hyposis? I don't know. I wondered. I do know I felt filthy when they were done with me in that room. Was it the probe that I was fearing. I can't recall. i already had long standing issues out side the walk. I was supposed to feel safe and protected from evil ever happening to me again, but I did not feel any healing -only more desperate.

I am told that I could be put under a kind of hypnosis to remember what had happened with the walk and with other situations. I don't think I want to know unless I need to for some one else's beneift.

From a reliable source who had some trainig on hypnosis from an ex military guy who had CIA connection ( sounds conspiracy theory! Living in Iowa City you meet a lot of interesting people)..Point is this and it will be distrubing....

The elements of the probe that I can recall most likely have to do with revealing you inner deep dark secrets for alledged spirtual healing. BUT, the problem is people could be basically black mailed with that information. It is a power and control thing. the brothers never should have that kind of personal information. If God wanted them to pray for healing why did He not speak for healing and keep the secret to his God self?

Keep in mind that all those "ministries" whether in front of the congregation or in the back room were ALL recorded. special people transcribed those "words" We sometimes got a copy and "they" kept copies. Who knows if the "words" were ever edited?

In that ball park time period back in Washington Iowa my mother, a jezebell, walked into the church on business. She stood out side the office not intending to eaves drop, but over heard conversation by jrs family members. They were reading individuals "ministries" and laughing. At that point my mother knew "ministry" was a joke. ( A few years too late after she forced me to do some things because the brothers told me to do it. )

Here were all of these confidential confessions or secrets and the office staff made fun of these poor people seeking council from men who just made up crap with a 'verily, verily I say unto thee" jibberish.

There is a certain speech pattern of rhythm involved. Sometimes repetative words. Trigger words. ( ring a bell?)

I think there was an extra line crossed with "ministry" when it became a "probe". In my opinion the "probe" was supposed to free us from past sins or something. From I can recall I do not believe most people would have revealed their 'secret sins" willingly while being taped and transcribed.

This subject is hard to write. I may or may not make sense to many. then again a few of my pieces pull it all together for some one else. If there were ever to be a court case , I doubt what I said would be credible on a witness stand. I don't want to created any false memories by trying too hard to remember.

I feel I am taking a risk revealing too much to those trolls and spies that we do know read this. I also feel uncomfortable about opportunists who want to profit on speaking engagements, News, monitzied You Tube or book deals from quotes on any of these threads. for the record I refuse permission for anyone to quote me other than in this thread. I will sue any out side sources who misuses my statements for a purpose other than what I intended to help my old friends.

i share bits and pieces knowing there is risk ss this can be read by anyone. but because I loved my friends in the walk I will take the risk. Please keep this among us or ask for me for permission. If you write about cults you may not quote me in your books or any other publication.

I am curiosu as to how long Ministries transscripts weer kept or destroyed. This certainly would have fallen into HIPPA violations

NickleandDimed Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> NancyB I believe you. That your children or child
> were/was beaten while in a Kingdom School. It's
> not uncommon. As some teachers are untrained. In
> working with special needs kids. Like your son. It
> can happen while no one else is watching. In
> private. In the restroom. A closet.
>
> Abusers/Narcissists don't seem abusive in the
> beginning. But the more you are involved with
> them. The abusive behavior seeps out. They wear
> your down. It can start with coldness.
> Indifference. Raising their voice. Verbal
> assaults. Spiteful. They wear you down. And if
> they drink. And when drunk. At times express love.
>
> However, cruelty. Indifference. Are often a side
> effect of alcoholism. Very telling. Your comment.
> The inner circle surrounding John. Made excuses
> for his drunken behavior. Believing John was a
> victim of his Nephilim wife. The inner circle were
> intelligent. And vulnerable. But they enabled
> John. They prayed for death to a channeling
> spirit. And some prayed for the destruction of
> Martha. I heard their intercession. Some enablers
> in the inner circle. Were nurses. They didn't
> known better. They drank the kool aid. The
> enablers could have put John on a stretcher.
> Delivered him to the hospital for detox. And risk
> being excommunicated. Narcissists wear people
> down.

My son told me to tell you he appreciates your kind supportive words.
You are right. I know there was even a doctor in the inenr circle. I was patient of his for a while too afraid to step out of the kingdom.

I know about the nurses. I was not one of them. I was a disodent who they tried to shut up at times. I am thinking of at last one nurse whos hubby was in the inner cirlce laughing how she often "shot up" while on duty. One time she shot up with B vitamins ( I happened to be getting B12 shot) She laughed about the big red skin flush she got and had to got hide in the bath room. other walkers lol. I walked away. Nurses legally and morally should never be partaking of patients drugs for the hell of it. So, if these RN wer so holy and exempt from the earhly law, why would they have any common sense to take him to detox? They all had dirty secrets.

Sharing takes a lot out of me but so liberating.

While we are on a similar thread I have read a few questions about sexual abuse in the walk. So far I have not read any answer. This subject of sexual misuse is the buzz in the news. so it is difficult to ascertain if there are real allogations who need a witness or so or if there is just curiouslity. it is possilbe that someone may need help in finding credible witnesses. I do not think I can be of any help if that is a possibility. I do encourage us all to be sensitive as possible if victims do come forth and use PM to protect any one.

I want to start with the fact that as far as I know neither of my older chidlren were victim of sexual asault by the walk. I was not a victim of sexaul assualt altho' I have stated that after "some ministires felt filthy dirty". That is not an allegation.

What I do know: yes, there were members of the walk in leadership postions who had reportedly were having incestual relationships with ther child in thir home. I did nto witness any acts, but because I was a secret survivor and an RN who was learning al I could to heal myself, I saw the signs. My close friend revealed the horid truth. I do not know if he was found guilty or not, but I have no doubt in my mind. And there were other individuals in different states who wer ofudn guilty of incest that I knew and was sadly not surprised.

i have read posts wondering if there was any turth to Lists of woman the leaders could have sex with" I have no knowledge to make a comment.

I do know that from the mid 60's promescuity was common among the youth. Of course I have a critical spirit as I was an Iowa girl.

Side note: I was a very good girl who loved a fellow church member boy. I was given ministry to break up iwth my boy freind because god did not want me to get pregnant before I finished my education. A specific elder in my church sent me to CA to go to jr college for free...later I found out that elder wanted me to marry his son since my sister had married some one else. "God's reason for sending me to CA was to break me up with the love of mys life.... I did not want to go. I did not fit in. AS Christian girl I felt very uncomfortable with the far different values in CA. I don't mean any offence to anyone still around in the CA youth group...point: I did not understand the different standards tolerated in CA church from Chritian Tabernacle.

The frist time when I went to CA for camp I saw M. I thought she was more than a scretray. I thought she was bossy and all too flirty with JRS. What did I know I was a virgin teen?

Later before they were official married, I already knew they were married M and JRs. I was confused at the story. I should not have known but I knew some one who did. I reemmber thinking " Oh! Reminded me of the fake story jrs told aobut someone secret marriage and surprise pregnancy of some one close to me and some one close to JRS. No names. At the time, I wondered how in the world they felt they had to cover up out of wed lock sex when it seemed to me every one was doing it? I ws good girl. It bothered me that they lied. JRS coudl have just not said anything adn gone on.

In the 60's I heard rumors of unsubstaniated allegations of hanky panky with jrs at Blix house. I understand there is a child out of that house next door that was a bit older than mine children in kingdom school. I never asked as it was not my biz. It was not that child's fault to heap coal on his head for the parents sin namely grow a__ man who talked about god's kingdom and sin for everyone else.

I wrote this before, I do know that my late sister's husband was involved in some really disgusting acts. He got shipped off to the army. I was told that there were other golden buys involved. I don't know much more. except that JRS knew at some point.

I could not comprehend why some hienous acts were ok to cover up, but, Martha was the "wicked witch Neph who had to die."

I only heard rumors tath soem one called Blix a whore house. I scared me when I was sent to CA. I did not want to go. I oculd ahve been lie or a rumor maybe started bya girl who wanted in the Bix house but did not. don't quote the rumor I heard from teen age girl's gossip.

As far as I know there was plenty of "normal" for the world gossip among jealous teens and young women. Unless someone comes forward to admit that they started gossip based on jealousy or kind of sort, really knew something the sexual abusive questions among the leadership are not something that I know of personally.

Let's say that the rumors could be true and some victims are pursing legal action so many after the fact, I think we need to be very careful that non of us muddy a good legal case for them.

sorry I seem to be hogging the fourm.

Did you all happen to read this on the front page of this site?

[www.culteducation.com]

While I do not know there is any relationship to the walk I find it interesting.

I have been wondering just how many former leaders in the walk who did not over dosed on drugs or alcohol started their own groups under names we would not associate with our history?

Just currious...or maybe I have an evil imagination?

I would like to be able to connect all the questions I have read so far. But WOW! it is hard to keep track of and not stay on all day and night.

I have more to "expose" about the "probe" possilby involving hynosis and a comment about jrs imparting his spirit by head to head transferance. See if any thing rings a bell for you.

There are some "tricks of the trade" I think invovled. Sorry to burst a few bubbles about feeling real experiences I am so sorry I think you may have been duped. I am so sorry.

Some time in the 60's the charasmatic movement was big on speaking tongues. ( Talk jibberish and everyone thought you were filled with it" This was big for a while in thes bless-in then I think they went on to intersession..

In Iowa we had many cross over vistors/ family from pentecostal who spoke in tongueas and were slain in the spirit. with many people going back and forth from church to church it was hard for me to seperte what came from jrs and what was left overs from another church in Washington county area.

My parents weren't that loyal. they drug us to too many other different churches as well instead of having time to get home work done and putting us to bed .

When I was very grown up and My father after he got kicked our of the walk he drug me to a lot of Pentecostal when ever I stayed at his home. He was always impressed with the holy spirit moving. I love my fatehr so I sat trying to be polite...I saw what was going on. My son was a martial artist potiley let his grand pa drag around from fake to fake. My son filled me in on why they touched people in certain places adn why some were really unconsicous with an orgasmic buzz

No matter what spiritual experience there are so common tricks any martial artist already knows. Pressure points on nerves.

I have a habit of watching and listening before I jump in.

I often witnessed leaders included jrs training helpers as how to the "opening in the aura to receive the holy spirit". I have heard that worded slightly different but the words sound so very holy a revelation from god . It has to do with nerves in the body. the fake healers use all kinds of tricks as well that gives an adrenalyn rush. WOW! Yuzers!
r
Keep in mind the allusion a magitian does to divert you attention. Music plays a part. So does the shouting of Amen and other spiritual sounding chatter in toungues.

I don't want to spell it out here. I typo too much. But I did find on link that reveals the trick with an anotomical image if you care to click and rad or copy and past the link

I think you may find it eye opening to say the least. Do not try this at home.

The author of the link made a point to say that preachers saw other preachers do it: slin in teh spirit for waht ever rason. Could be to deliver from the devil or heal. Because they wanted to look powerful they followed the leader.

Many, I do not think are aware that these are pressure points. These techniques can be deadly. I believe that jrs used his twist calling it " revelation" to one-up the other churches.

Any one who is skilled/ licenced in giving injections or shots have to know where NOT to inject a needle or you will paralyze some one. Are these preachers trained? Probalby not and they are flirting with danger.

My opinion. I have no word from god. I just got fed up with phoney balony.


[rtms.netfirms.com]

My dad loved Benny hinn. He loved all the televangists. My dad was hungery for god.What fake they all were. ! I tried to not laugh when my dad wanted me to watch with him. Not JRS I know. but I also looked up an exposure on Benny Hinn. His theatricks are not too differnt from somethings that wnet on in the walk

I knew from being a church pianst what the leader on the plpit was saying to the organist or the elders. AS teen I did not comprehend deception. There were certain songs jrs, when visiting Ct, would tell Chritine to play and I folllowed her lead on the piano. The comments I would hear were "play this song we have to pump the people to really give in the offering". I wondered why not have faith?

New age uses the words 'repeat this mantra". it is the same thing that grabs your emotions.

There is STage Hypnois element. Trial lawyers uses this. I think JRS used. If you have any old cassetes and tape player you may hear jrs use it as well

Quote: Stage hypnotists, like successful trial lawyers, have long known their most important task is to carefully pick their subjects-for the stage as for a jury-if they expect to win. Compliance is highly desirable, and to determine this ahead of time, the stage magician will usually give several test suggestions to those who volunteer to come up on the stage. " un quote

From link: [www.csicop.org]


In intersession especially if interssesion got violent I would leave to go to the rest room. Removing my self or feeling like it was not ok for my children to be there it removed me from the heat of passion.

I have wondered IF possilbly some of the violent intersession weirdness had what are now called, " crisis actors" Where some of our fellow walk friends were planted to start a riot while 'Storming heaven" or "giving birth" in the spirit. is it possible we all had "herd mentality"?

Just a thought. My head is full of questions that I have had for a very long time. Sorry for so much posting. I wonder if any one else has questions along the same line?

the internet is an amazing tool to find answers to questions.

I just got a shock as I explored You Tube.
When I wsa young and remember jrs speaking at Christima Tabernacle. he often mention namesl liek Aimme, Simple MacPheason; billy Sunday; Smith wiggleworth.

I know a number of you who have engangin about the wlak know taht jrs was defrocked from Four Square. So was my late father in law because they could not follow the rules. I don't know if that was good or bad.
I had made some mention of a witch being in the Valley that jrs had learned from.

On You Tube I ran across this title. It intriqued me so instead of going to bed I watched. I bleive that the hisrory of this video will shock your socks of when you know that jrs was fascineted with these people. this is when the walk really started with these old evagelists.

One of the First Witches to infiltrate the Churches via Hollywood & Freemasonry
[www.youtube.com]

What do you think?

GoingRogue Wrote:

> Wow! The biggest question is, "Where were the
> thundering herds, uh, I mean adoring throngs of LW
> Walkers to greet the G-man at LAX?"

Ha--yes, that is the question!

NancyB I am sorry your were called a Jezebel. Pentecostals are notorious for throwing that word around. But I know it can be hurtful and leave scars. I empathize with you having been a young mother married to an alcoholic. I usually call a woman in that situation a saint. It is so unfortunate the brethren turned on you rather than help you during that time. But I salute you for thinking on your feet and getting your children out. Thank you for the links you have posted.

GSchaft I took a look at your reddit page. Well done. I also liked what you posted. Keep blogging!

Larry you have posted about the negative influence Marilyn's ministry had on your marriage. Recently I was cleaning up my favorites on my computer and I ran across information I had kept regarding Amee Macpherson (one of JRS's mentors). Apparently as a female evangelist, Amee was continually attacked by her brethren. She was called a whore and of course a Jezebel and accused of inappropriately flaunting her sexuality. There were scandals and she was taken to court. The Pentecostals or Four Squares did not hold back in their vociferous attacks on her character. Regarding M's ministry, it seems to me that had it not been for the cultish and well executed mind control in the LW which absolutely prohibited attacks on any ministry or face excommunication, M could have found herself in exactly the same environment as Amee. There was another celebrity female Pentecostal minister who preceded Amee (can't recall her name) and she too was trashed and called a whore and Jezebel by some of the brethren and was taken to court.

GSchaeff oops sorry for the misspelling of your screen name in my above post.

Lily, no doubt John. Was aware of those attacks on Amee. May explain why. John so quick to excommunicate Francis. That is. If it's true. Francis not under influence of mind control. Called M a Jez to John's face. Not to mention. As reported on this forum. Jhorton who wasn't under the influence of mind control. In the early 80"s publically called M a Jez during a sermon. And was immediately discarded from the LW. That's courageous.

NancyB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I just got a shock as I explored You Tube.
> When I wsa young and remember jrs speaking at
> Christima Tabernacle. he often mention namesl liek
> Aimme, Simple MacPheason; billy Sunday; Smith
> wiggleworth.
>
> I know a number of you who have engangin about the
> wlak know taht jrs was defrocked from Four Square.
> So was my late father in law because they could
> not follow the rules. I don't know if that was
> good or bad.
> I had made some mention of a witch being in the
> e Valley that jrs had learned from.
>
> On You Tube I ran across this title. It intriqued
> me so instead of going to bed I watched. I bleive
> that the hisrory of this video will shock your
> socks of when you know that jrs was fascineted
> with these people. this is when the walk really
> started with these old evagelists.
>
> One of the First Witches to infiltrate the
> Churches via Hollywood & Freemasonry
> [www.youtube.com]
>
> What do you think?

NancyB, I don't know much. About Freemasonry. I know the Bible attitude towards witches. Is severe. I can't decide. If calling McPherson a witch is rooted. In fear and ignorance. Or if there is something to it.