I love lights and stuff. I didn't know how to tell my parents about the Walk's Christmas conspiracy. I told my Mom I did not want to go to the Christmas party because it wouldn't please God. She got angry. My family did not see these pagan holidays as pagan.

lily rose Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I told my Mom I did not want to go to the
> Christmas party because it wouldn't please God.
> She got angry. My family did not see these pagan
> holidays as pagan.

The pendulum has swung from dismissing Christmas as a pagan holiday to supporting the Christmas truck as a way of ministering to wealthy neighborhoods.
His thoughts are not our thoughts...

John Stevens,

He brought extensive historical teaching about the origin of Christmas and several other holidays. He brought Scriptural references out of the Old Testament to support what he believed gave insight to how the ancient worshipper's of God, being warned by the prophets of old - against the people being caught up in the worship of the other god's - in the nations where-in they were living.

However in teaching this history - which was not easily accessible in the late 1960's and early 1970's - with out research and study - as it is today - John did not require any one to stop celebrating Christmas in their own personal lives.

John expressed his conviction and the responsibility he believed he carried for the place where the people came together to worship God - he expressed to the people at a service why he could not with good conscience - set up, decorate and give a place in the church and sanctuary to a Christmas tree. He gave reason to why he held this conviction. And when he expressed ( after sharing with the church what he has learned from his research and study) - why no tree would be in the sanctuary beginning that year, he said to the people that he did not believe God would hold any one accountable - if they chose to celebrate Christmas - if they did not have the understanding needed to know how it would be offensive to God. But John spoke that he held himself accountable to God as the pastor, for what he came to believe honored God.

So at the church there-after, there was no Christmas tree in the church- all the years he lived - but whoever chose to or not to celebrate Christmas- this was up to them.

John made a book available (free) to the church members - which has had many revisions since the original version - titled - " Babylon Mystery Religion" by Ralph Woodrow.

John also recommended that one should do a further and an independent research of actual ancient and world history on their own to gain more understanding.

[forum.culteducation.com]

Kbyrne, nothing like the Jim Jones' mass suicide to perk up the holidays. Tell the kids go home to see their parents for a change so you don't get as much "persecution"!

I was in the Walk for over forty years. I never felt that it was up to me to decide whether I should celebrate Christmas or not. Well, unless I wanted do that knowing that I was offending God...or admitting that I lacked understanding and revelation.

Merry Christmas to all...

kbyrne Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Reepicheep Wrote:
> -------------------------------------------------------
> > Thank you for the warm welcome, Lily Rose and
> > NickleandDimed.
> >
> > This time of year is especially hard for me
> > because of time missed with loved ones during
> the
> > holidays. Many of those I miss the most have
> > passed away, and that time will never be
> > recovered. I’m sure that I’m not the only one
> > posting here who has this sadness. It was bad
> > enough when we “didn’t celebrate Christmas”
> > because we could still spend time with our
> > families. It wasn’t the same, because Christmas
> > wasn’t meaningful to us in the same way that it
> > was meaningful to them, but it was alright.
> Then
> > suddenly, we were strongly encouraged to
> > participate in the Magical Christmas Caroling
> > Truck. How do you explain to your folks that
> we,
> > who don’t celebrate Christmas, cannot be
> present
> > at holiday gatherings because we are doing a
> > Christmas caroling extravaganza through the
> city
> > streets? If you are unfamiliar with this
> > particular practice, use this link
> > www.christmascaroling.org/
> >
> > It’s been a wild ride, but I’m so glad to be on
> a
> > healing path. Just wishing that it had been
> > sooner.
>
>
> I want to add my welcome as well, Reepicheep.
>
> I too missed many a Christmas. Even after leaving
> TLW, I felt isolated from it. I spent five years
> of Christmases and Thanksgivings in Shiloh. The
> only one time that we were told to go home, if we
> possibly could, was after the Jim Jones horror.
> It was meant to show our families that we were not
> in a cult and we were free to go. It strikes me
> now as a terribly cult-ish thing to do!!
>
> I left long before the Christmas Caroling, but
> have to check out the link. Sadly, I wonder how
> many people that are still in the Walk even know
> why they are there.
>
> Looking forward to Christmas this year with
> family!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/17/2017 08:44AM by Reepicheep.

I'm still having trouble editing. The second paragraph in my previous post was in response to Invisible's comments.

Invisble said JRS didn't require anyone to stop celebrating Christmas. Yet most of us felt compelled to give up Christmas. Was that a cult dynamic? I think what I have learned in the forum about what happens in cults as they grow and as the Walk grew particularly among young people, so does the influence (power and control) over the members. JRS's charismatic ministry drew in people so much that they respected his absolute authority and trusted him so much that they often disregarded any unusual behavior or doctrine. They believed JRS and continued giving all they had to his vision. Reepicheep and kbyrne mentioned Jim Jones. It was the same with the People's Temple cult. Jones was reportedly highly charismatic. And even as Jone's paranoia increased over time, the members disregarded his unusual behavior and extreme doctrines. Though clearly, without Jim Jone's power and control over the members, the mass suicides would not have happened. And the move to Jonestown would not have occurred.

Great points, Lily Rose. JRS was considered to be THE Apostle to the Kingdom age. He had definite ways of letting you know what you were supposed to think. In fact, he used to say, "Let me tell you how to think." If he said, "Get married," you got married. If he said, "Get divorced," you got divorced. If he told a young woman to get an abortion, she got an abortion. Yes, I said that.

John Robert Stevens was not an unassuming man. He didn't mince words, and he didn't seem like a person who retreated from being glorified. If he told his flock that participating in Christmas celebrations was dishonoring God, then who was going to say, "Well, I'm doing it anyway?"

Before and after leaving TLWF, I researched the origins of Christmas many times. I came to the conclusion it was not as simple as “Babylon Mystery Religion” would lead us to believe. It really is a mixture of many things, including Christianity, paganism, tradition, materialism, and family – but so is life. Apparently there is still enough of Christ in Christmas to offend some - so it's not a complete loss. :) In TLWF, I think we strained at a gnat and swallowed a camel. The idea was that God’s people did not forsake Him and worship other gods. We didn’t celebrate Christmas but allowed a human to take God’s place. The outcome was the same as if we did worship other gods – as well as the damage.

Here is where the teachings of Jesus provide such health and safety. Much of the “warfare” we experienced in TLWF came from opening our spirits to the occult, and thinking it was God. When you close the openness, much of what we were fearful of becomes a moot point. Christmas stops being a time of oppression. Greater is He that is in us than he that is in the world. Darkness is actually afraid of the light.

Some holiday thoughts as we get together with family and friends:

“Do not be afraid. I bring you good news of great joy that will be for all the people.” “Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace to men on whom his favor rests.” (Perhaps a little contrast to the judgment and exclusiveness advocated by TLWF) “You are the light of the world. A city on a hill cannot be hidden…In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven.” “But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father in heaven.” “But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.” “For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.” “If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him! So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.” “Honor your father and mother.”

@larry, your comment about the darkness being afraid of the light is very accurate. I never felt free to discuss what my family actually believed and practiced. Keeping our secrets and presenting us as just christians was part of my existence, up until a couple of months ago. No one, not even my closest friends had any idea that my family prayed for(loosed) judgement to fall on entire cities and people, encouraged me to break my connections after being around or eating with anyone else but them. No one knew the reasons I ended every relationship, save a couple, was because my family believed I was affected by them or that they would never have a revelation of the body of Christ.

When my marriage started to fall apart and we started going to a Christian Counselor, my parents advised against it, suggesting a secular one would be better. They got very eager to know what we were discussing as it pertained to them. When I refused on the grounds it was b/w my wife and I, they got very upset demanding I tell them, as it was their right to know what I said as it pertained to them. They were afraid of the light of truth. Even at the same time they believed everyone else was walking in darkness.