Heshealing said in the above post, "After leaving I became a living indictment against all the wrongs suffered....." And changedagain's preceding post shines a spotlight and indictment on why the LW teaching on shunning of parents and close friends should be ignored by the members. Thank you. Gary preaches about Jesus, but Jesus never shunned anyone even engaging his enemies in dialog. And he took action to ensure his mother was cared for after he died.

I believe John’s interest in the occult opened the door to many strange visions. In Acts, the new believers burned their occult books – not built a library to better understand the spirit realm. It's a different spirit than God's Spirit! I have been suspect of John’s visions ever since I started using Jesus’ words as a plumb line. In John’s first vision of “Jesus” in Holy Jim Canyon, he was told that Jesus sought to kill him for his withdrawal. Jesus said, “The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they have life, and have it to the full.” Does John’s vision sound like the thief or Jesus? TLWF leadership has demanded that they be obeyed like Old Testament prophets without the accountability of death if you called something a word from God that really wasn’t. It never was about bringing life to people, but to use people for personal gain - otherwise you would speak Jesus' words to them, not your own. John’s vision of the future was a false prophesy – it didn’t happen. To cherry pick it now and say it was about being the Father’s family and ignoring the predictions that never happen is choosing to be blind.

Jesus also said, “At that time if ANYONE says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect – if that were possible. See, I have told you ahead of time.” Against the backdrop of those words, you can decide if the leadership of TLWF is Christ in the flesh or not – what Jesus calls deception, G&M called revelation. Jesus said that he came to serve, not be served. Imagine what he thinks about a human saying they are God and demanding they be served. He said to call no man leader, teacher, or father – you have one, and it’s the Christ and you are all brothers. So much for using God to make yourself important.

I was reading Jude and thinking how many verses were applicable to TLWF:

4 For certain individuals whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord. (God told me to divorce my wife and marry another so we could go into ministry together. Nobody will even notice if we have our followers call us "Mom and Dad"- they'll only read the parts of the Bible we tell them to they are so enamored with us.)

8 In the very same way, on the strength of their dreams these ungodly people pollute their own bodies, reject authority and heap abuse on celestial beings. 9 But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not himself dare to condemn him for slander but said, “The Lord rebuke you!”[d] 10 Yet these people slander whatever they do not understand, and the very things they do understand by instinct—as irrational animals do—will destroy them. (Think of the false visions that caused so much destruction and the ministry of judgement that supposedly came from God. Jesus said they did not know what spirit they were of when they wanted to call down fire on the Samaritans. The only ones that were damaged by the judgments of TLWF were the ones who ministered it – the rest of us who have chosen to walk on with God are doing much better than we ever did in TLWF!)

2 These people are blemishes at your love feasts, eating with you without the slightest qualm—shepherds who feed only themselves. (So much for the upward flow! Where are those that actually care for God’s people the way He does?)

19 These are the people who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spirit. (Instead of participating in the oneness that Jesus prayed for, the leadership has isolated those in TLWF to serve their own purposes. If they were actually in fellowship with the rest of the Body of Christ, instead of claiming (like many others) to be the only true church, they would be able to see the error of their factions and divisions. A cult leader isolates to control, not to benefit his followers.)

Gary has persisted in promoting the vision JRS allegedly had in 1972 seeing 7 years into the Kingdom, even though one of the Blix girls at that time told Gary and Marilyn that she had been with John Stevens that entire day. This was common knowledge among the Living Word Building gossips. It was bad enough that John felt the need to cover for his day-long disappearance with a fantastic story about his vision and being caught up in the spirit so that he lost all track of time. But for Gary and Marilyn to continue to peddle the vision as a selling point for how they are the fulfillment of that prophetic community seems cynical and horrific.

Good to hear from Larry and Saw enough on this subject of John's 1972 Holy Jim Canyon vision. Maybe G&M and now G persist in resurrecting it every year because for them the Living Word rests on the validity of this glorious vision. If the Lord appeared and talked with John then all John said (the Living Word) is true. The vision either occurred or it did not occur. If it did not, then the whole thing is a fraud. Since the prediction did not come true I agree with Larry that it was a false prophecy and there was not a vision from the Lord. And I share your view Saw enough that "to continue to peddle the vision as a selling point for how they are the fulfillment of that prophetic community seems cynical and horrific." Well said.

Great points, everyone.

Many of us have been wondering what the new post-M era would look like. Following the cozying up to the Catholic church, along with parading G-man all around Sao Paulo as the Second Coming and wondering whether there was a potential replacement 'girl from Ipanema' in the picture, there was the partnering up with an Hispanic church, and TLW suddenly appeared to be a movement looking for an identity, so what better way than to resurrect their own.

Both the Holy Jim Canyon and 1972 visions seem so discredited by those on this forum we may have believed they were jettisoned long ago, but they apparently still hold water for diehard faithfuls, hoping there must be some reason they have born the heat of the day and wasted their lives all these decades.

What better way to revive the people than to serve up the Kool-Aid one more time . . .



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/17/2016 08:46PM by kBOY.

HEADBANGER NEWS: Spinning the Candles on the Birthday Cake

"Happy Birthday, Marilyn"
November 16, 2016

[www.garyandmarilynhargrave.com]

"Without question, it was a moment of destiny when she arrived on this earth!" (Actually, many suffered the brunt of that destiny.)

"Marilyn had a powerful calling from God, and she walked it out with tremendous integrity." (Destroying those who stood in her way.)

"Marilyn lived presenting her spirit before the Lord (in her own mind)."

"She continually sought deeper and deeper meetings with God for herself and for everyone around her (so they would get the revelation that she was the Big Cheese)."

"Every generation in this fellowship has known Marilyn’s intense love (hate) for them."

"She created us into a (dysfunctional) family by requiring that we love (her) . . . , become the Word of God (down the Kool-Aid), and be the presence of the Lord (TLW leadership) to each other."

"Today, as her (dysfunctional) family, we unite our hearts together to honor her (and her tragic legacy) in our love for one another."

"The hunger for God (power) expressed by this amazing (crazed) woman of God is one of her many (forgettable) qualities that we continue to (dis)honor about her."

"If you knew Marilyn (hopefully from a distance), you’d know that she would want any celebration of her life to point back to (her). . ."

Saw enough Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gary has persisted in promoting the vision JRS
> allegedly had in 1972 seeing 7 years into the
> Kingdom, even though one of the Blix girls at that
> time told Gary and Marilyn that she had been with
> John Stevens that entire day. This was common
> knowledge among the Living Word Building gossips.
> It was bad enough that John felt the need to cover
> for his day-long disappearance with a fantastic
> story about his vision and being caught up in the
> spirit so that he lost all track of time.

thanks for sharing this...

> But for Gary and Marilyn to continue to peddle the vision
> as a selling point for how they are the
> fulfillment of that prophetic community seems
> cynical and horrific.

true

I have also heard from multiple sources that John was with another woman on the day he claimed to have his vision in 1972. Whether or not that is actually true, I question who was this "Jesus" that appeared to him - if one actually did. The true Jesus would have brought liberty to John, not threatened to kill him. I think it was the root of John's thinking that God wanted to destroy others with His judgement - even though Jesus taught us not to judge others, but to live for their good - love them.

John 3:17 says, "For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him." Whenever men take the place of God, the result is condemnation. When it is actually God's Spirit, the result is freedom and healing. Think of the woman caught in adultery or the Samaritan woman at the well. Both were set free when they encountered Jesus - not condemned. People end up so afraid of God because of those who have taken His place in religion. The more I get to know Him, the more amazed I am at just how good He is. Contact with TLWF has left people with the idea that God is abusive, when He is actually just the opposite. It's the spirit of the thief, not the Good Shepherd.

Just another reason I would make a pathetic cult leader...the inability to come up with a convincing, other worldly story to explain an mysterious disappearance.

arriving at home, 11 p.m.
Wife: Where the hell were you?
Me: uh...Home Depot and Costco
Wife: Really...
Me: Yeah, they've extended their hours, and I just got into trance. I lost all track of time. I think God may have met me.
Wife: Really... you couldn't at least call?
Me: Uh...I was really into that...meeting with God. It was hot and
Wife: What? Don't talk to me. Work on this story, and then feed it to your sheep Sunday. They need something inspiring. They've been working very hard!
Me: O.K. honey. I appreciate your input. I mean, my spiritual wife couldn't come up with anything. She--
Wife: Shut up. Your hot dog is in the microwave.

larry bobo Wrote:

> I think it was the root of John's thinking that God wanted to destroy
> others with His judgement

Yes, and I think it was even more so entrenched in the ministry of G & M (Mom and Dad). This underlying certainty that God is appalled by human nature, and can't wait to destroy it with his Presence. Definitely a strain of sadism that is channeled through the "living word." And no, it's not the people's fault that they have this sensitivity to rejection, since it has been systematically, calculatedly ministered to them...basically as a tool to keep them subjected to the control of leadership.