The reference in 2 Corinthians 6:14 that states we should not be yoked together with unbelievers and is used to justify divorce when one spouse does not agree with the leadership of TLWF, is quite a stretch. To say that one spouse changes from Christ to Belial when they read their Bible and do what it says, instead of what their DR has ordered, is simply not true. Acts 17:11 says, “Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.” It might be nice if TLWF felt the same way. We’re actually not the enemy to point out conflicts with scripture. If the scripture carries no weight, you could look at the number of divorces and see the fruit.

Most of us have felt the rage if we questioned anything – it was about control, not about the truth or a real relationship. What is clear in scripture is what changedagain posted from 1 Corinthians 7:13-14. You don’t have to control someone to love them. We were not even given a clue about true oneness in the teachings of TLWF. We were taught how to be controlled and how to control others – something that was quite toxic. Only extending “love” when the other person does exactly what you want, the way you want it done is a dictatorship, not a relationship. “You and I will get along just fine as soon as you realize I am God” - although funny, is sick. The more we realize how perfect God is, we would be foolish to not want His input. However, that's a far cry from someone that wants to pretend they are God and trash your life.

God loved us while we were sinners, screwing everything up. He asks us to love others the way He loves us. I think the ability to love a spouse that remains in TLWF can be easy if God is the source of that love. The negative effects that divorce has on kids is often not considered as much as it should be - something that Paul and Malachi both mention. On the other hand, I think it would be quite difficult for the spouse still in TLWF to love a spouse that was fellowshipping with a group outside of TLWF because they can no longer be controlled. How can you possibly love someone who will not do what your leader wants? You can see why Jesus said to call no man leader - it messes stuff up. In hindsight, I know the way I was taught to relate in TLWF was very destructive to my first marriage. There was a lot I had to re-learn, both about marriage and God. Those of us that have experienced finding new life are a threat to the old and it is amazing how quickly ties are cut with TLWF relationships that were decades old. Even people in the world are happy for you to be in a healthier place – why must you be a Nephilim when you leave TLWF, even if it is for a deeper walk with God?

<Most of us have felt the rage if we questioned anything – it was about control, not about the truth or a real relationship>

So true, Larry. That was the turning point for my wife, who was more committed to the fellowship prior to us leaving than I was. She questioned Gary's treatment of Dan Statton, and enraged, Gary threatened to punch her. He followed up this threat with recounting the incident during a Sunday morning feast service the following day--proud of himself. Later, of course, there surfaced rumors (I think I know where they originated) that my wife was seeking to have an affair with Statton, and that was the real source of his anger...not simply being challenged.
If I was thinking rationally at the time (not possible, since I was immersed in the cult) I would have had this thought: gee, if someone is punched for allegedly wanting to have an affair, why hasn't Rick Holbrook been punched numerous times for acting out these thoughts? Perhaps given favorable treatment for being the son of the lamp?
Hell...to this day, I'm astounded at how hijacked my thought process was by this place. Here's hoping that, as PF mentioned, people sense TLWF is sinking, know that the first life boats will go to key leaders, and get out now!

Pbxguy I know of a situation in a friends church where a lady in the church kept getting bruises, like black eyes, and she sought counsel from the pastors and all that, and she was told NOT TO DIVORCE him. Well, guess what, he finally killed her.

My wife and me are considering annulment. In fact, last night we agreed amiably. Everybody was happy with it. But, she did call back in thirty minutes changing her mind, saying we will hold off on it and have a date night. So, she aint ready for it. Well we went to God for counsel, and what we got was He is OK with it. We just are opposite in every way. That is our impression anyway. I would not advise anyone either way about anything myself, except to speak with God directly rather than get a firm witness from anybody where they are deciding for you.



pbxguy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> respectfully, Changed, I think there is also an
> over-emphasis on finding a scriptural
> justification for divorce.
>
> All too often, good people stay in terrible
> marriages, or marriages that have simply devolved
> into unhealthy relationships because they cannot
> find a 'scriptural justification' for a
> dissolution.
>
> Sometimes things just don't work out, and the
> individuals are much healthier/happier undergoing
> a split. Scripture becomes a torment instead of a
> comfort.

pbxguy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> respectfully, Changed, I think there is also an
> over-emphasis on finding a scriptural
> justification for divorce.
>
> All too often, good people stay in terrible
> marriages, or marriages that have simply devolved
> into unhealthy relationships because they cannot
> find a 'scriptural justification' for a
> dissolution.
>
> Sometimes things just don't work out, and the
> individuals are much healthier/happier undergoing
> a split. Scripture becomes a torment instead of a
> comfort.

Certainly. I completely understand this point of view. My parents were an example of this, with their incessant arguing...and I recall being relieved when they informed me that they would be divorcing. I was 13 at the time.
Truth be told...I seldom look to scripture to inform me of much of what I do with life now. That's how far I have "fallen"

The marriage issue is just one of the many detrimental side effects of the culture as a whole. With so many missteps to point out, it probably stands as the most damaging and far-reaching.

As a word of encouragement, I believe the hardcore DR dynamic has atrophied significantly among the rank and file over the years, and applies more to the ‘policy-makers’ and the ones who carry it out. Those who are not seeking to climb the hierarchical ladder seem less inclined to raise their hand before going to the bathroom. Since most of the top spots have already been filled, and with no expansion on the horizon, there is little to aspire to. With the lack of any cohesive vision, the organization is little more than a ‘normal’ neighborhood church, with only lingering effects of the cult it once was.

All that said, it does not mean there are not lasting effects from bygone years, especially for those who have invested decades or grown up under the influence. The culture of fear still has a strong subliminal hold on many who see no life beyond the fellowship. In the light of recent developments, there is more reason than ever to be encouraged. The mediating force of the ‘holy trinity’ has left the scene, leaving only a party of two with conflicting agendas. Sooner or later someone is going to get a peek behind the curtain and begin to spill the beans. There will then be the opportunity for the little people to sow their oats and begin to taste the freedom that lies beyond what was formerly keeping them from it.

I wish someone would do a study of how many people in cults have been raised in dysfunctional homes, such as how many are adult children of alcoholics, how many people in cults are co-dependent, whatever. I know that I was raised like this. I also know that my friend was raised in a broken home with no father around, and he is very strongly convinced that John Robert Stevens is his "spiritual father" and he gets pretty upset when I say anything that hints that he was not perfect. In fact, when he gives me his opinion, he always gives me John Robert Steven's belief about it too. He has been out of the Walk since right after JRS died same as me.

I think there is a certain mindset of those that can be sucked into cults. I am not in any way putting down anyone of that type, as I was sucked in too, until I went to California and one particular time I was at Shiloh where there were people there from all over the United States and I could see how the mindset was like the more spacey people in the churches in our region.

I thought about it right after I posted the above. I did not mean to suggest that people from my region of the country were smarter than others, I meant to say that people here are simply more rebellious. In the Walk being submissive was the trait most considered good in an individual. I never accepted that. To me it always seemed funny that being submissive is the most important trait of a Walk member was taught by a man that was famous for not being submissive to anyone. John Stevens was someone known to be someone that did not seek confirmation, he thought himself to be a law unto himself. Perhaps it was because either A. JESUS Christ did appear to him and ordain him an apostle, or B. someone or something appeared to him and convinced him that he was an apostle. Either way, this did not make him incapable of being wrong, but it might have made JRS THIHNK he could not be wrong.

I tried to post this but the forum would not take it, for me it blocks things too fast thinking a hacker is at large. But maybe it will take this now. I haven't gotten the moderator's book yet, he might have talked about this in the book but I think someone should investigate how many people that were once in cults or are subject to join them are people from dysfunctional homes. I have a friend that, when asked anything about the bible, he will give his opinion but he always tells what JRS thought too. He also still claims JRS as his spiritual father. By the way, he is from a broken home and his father was not present in his life. I know of others that were from similar roots, and I myself was raised in a violent alcoholic home.

There seems to be all the classic signs of co-dependency among Living Word members that I have known over the years. Anyone unfamiliar with co-dependency should google it and you will notice a lot of similarities with the flock of LWF.

kBOY Wrote:
> The mediating force of the ‘holy trinity’
> has left the scene, leaving only a
> party of two with conflicting agendas.

Yes, it's difficult to envision Rick and Gary amicably sharing power.
Would either one willingly submit their ways to the other?
Doubtful.

p.s. Merry Christmas

Oh Christmas tree, Oh Christmas tree!
Thy leaves are so unchanging
Oh Christmas tree, Oh Christmas tree,
Thy leaves are so unchanging

Not only green when summer's here,
But also when it's cold and drear.
Oh Christmas tree, Oh Christmas tree,
Thy leaves are so unchanging!

Oh Christmas tree, Oh Christmas tree,
Such pleasure do you bring me!
Oh Christmas tree, Oh Christmas tree,
Such pleasure do you bring me!
You make me horny!!