After having chosen to adopt a mindset which we have since eschewed, everyone, to some degree, has felt the FREEDOM of release from such constraining limitations. Living in a culture known for exclusion, it’s been a breath of fresh air to REALIZE that the KINGDOM IS RELATIONSHIPS wherever we find them, and they are to found everywhere.

The greatest days for all, both in and out of the fellowship, lie ahead. For those already gone, we have more time to distance ourselves from memories, both good and bad, while those still within the fellowship find themselves in a movement in turmoil, decent and decay, which is actually an open door. The head of the snake was cut off some time ago, and we have witnessed something that has looked to have life, but has actually been dying a slow death.

TLW, in some iteration or another, may outlive us all, but our greatest FREEDOM lies in the fact that we completely let it go on all levels with the days we have remaining, so we will be in the best position possible to CELEBRATE with those who free themselves from the spell and join the PARTY we throw on their behalf.

Yes, kBOY

I had the religiously correct opinion about "Babylon" churches when I was in the LWF, I believed that they were certainly fools for turning JRS out of their churches, but now that I know better, I know that JRS's bitterness toward real churches that worship God instead of him fed into the mentality of the members at the time because we were young, mostly from the Jesus Freak movement, and we didn't want anything to do with the "rules" of standard Christianity. In our belief system, all we had to do was have "John's spirit" and we were fine, because after all, if Jesus Himself came to John to endow him with such authority, how could we fail, let's party all we want to, divorce our wives, marry somebody younger and stupider, and we were just fine, we would inherit eternal life right here and right now without facing any judgement day, that was for everybody else, we were the manifest sons of God.

All an illusion, and it was not just the leaders that were self deceived. I will only speak for myself, sought out a leader that led me where I WANTED TO GO.

Sadly, that could be straight to Hell for those that continue to follow that path.

The part we don’t see, is years later, after “John’s sons” leave the walk, because they don’t have a revelation of the new regime, years later when their wife tells them they need to look for work because she can’t pay the bills with her paycheck only, and that son of John tells her that “God told him” that she needed to get some side work because God wants him to stay at home and smoke his weed and stay in John’s word and when she gets enough of it and finds a man that will work, he will tell everybody that she didn’t have a revelation of the word and of him and that was the cause of the divorce.

That is the lasting impact of John Robert Stevens, but it was not just JRS, the truth of the matter is there was the already existing notion that the first thought that comes to mind, if it makes them feel good, then it is God, if the message they get is for them to go to work and take care of business, then it is of the devil. That is the whole concept about hearing messages from God that are extra-biblical. Always, ALLWAYS, it is so that people that believe this junk have any responsibilities to grow up.

Being led astray is the inevitable pitfall of looking to ‘GOD in the flesh’, and to the denial of GOD within. This has been the most egregious aspect of TLW and any other movement where the focus was on a man. The ‘KINGDOM of GOD is WITHIN’ was given the backseat to an organizational hierarchy that was artificially constructed to enable the few, and enslave the many (purposefully or not).

A culture of perpetual-dependency was the inevitable result, creating a laity of adolescents that would never reach the ‘promised land’ of MATURITY. Being taught that any internal ‘witness’ was not to be trusted, we were forever held at bay from the land we were purporting trying to reach.

The TRUE GOSPEL of LOVE placed the focus where it should be--on the HEART of LOVE that was to be EXTENDED to ALL UNCONDITIONALLY. This is something that was NOT the foundation of TLW. Therein lies the error.

I took the liberty to re-post something and that is below. I will comment here. If the Hargraves bought that property AT THAT PRICE and they got the money from as their salary from Living Word Fellowship, as well as possibly some inheritance from John’s estate years earlier, then the people of the fellowship should take a minute and start to think that they are supporting a hugely rich lifestyle, some of the televangelists have homes not much better than this and they have the tithes and offerings of millions of people. This is just way too rich of a lifestyle from a small and shrinking group like the Living Word Fellowship. Wake up, lay down the kool-aid and have a cup of common sense coffee, you are enabling Hargrave to continue this. You are the ones that pay the paycheck, and you are the ones that he is rightly responsible to.

Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: lily rose ()
Date: November 22, 2014 09:57AM

Changedagain,

I did an online search for Hargrave's Oahu residence and found the property tax records (it's a public record otherwise I wouldn't post it) which indicates their home was purchased in 2005 for $1,750,000.00 and they paid an additional $300,000.00 in renovations. There's a pool. The 2014 property tax assessment values the home at $2,858,000. The market value could be higher. Also, the 2/20/14 property taxes in the amount of $4792.00 are past due. I don't know if they live in the home or perhaps rent it, but they are the owners.

I salute you for thinking about the retired pastors, and there are most likely many little people who served for many years not as leaders but as sheep and they possibly struggle financially too in their retirement.

The Hargraves also have a couple properties in So. California but most of the records indicate the home values are less than $500,000.

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Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: LampShmamp ()
Date: November 22, 2014 11:34AM

That is a sweet property, half an acre on a cul de sac ending at the water. Zillow has it estimated at $3.59M. It's all public info and was easy enough to find online, but I have no problem sharing the address if anyone wants to view it.

There is more money in that house than most of the people in Living Word Fellowship will make in their entire lifetime. But if they can't add all of that up, I guess there is nothing left to say.

There was more money spent on the renovations of that house than most members of Living Word Fellowship will make in three lifetimes, and more in the price and renovations than most members will make in twenty lifetimes. It is beyond unreasonable that you let people get away with this.

The majority of the Little People operate under the trust/fear factor, and will never ‘run any numbers’, as if they would ever have any access anyway. They also operate (apart from any first-hand evidence to the contrary), under the delusion that the integrity at the top of the food-chain (apart from one who shall go un-named) is without question. This is further reinforced by the proximity issue of having no personal access of any kind with the hierarchy. The highly-rigid concentric rings of relationships was not quite as hard-lined as in days past, but soon solidified rapidly in the first transition when allegiances needed to be clearly defined.

As a percentage, there is still a large number of very sweet people contributing to the sustenance of a very few, who at this point in their enlistment, probably feel entitled. There is encouraging anecdotal evidence on a number of fronts that indicate there might be more than a few who may finally take a drink of sobriety and reconsider their annual commitment. The extensive collateral damage done to so many, both current and ex-pats, may finally reach enough critical mass that we see the significant exodus we have all hoped for.

We WELCOME them with open arms.

kBoy: I extremely appreciate your reference to the “Kingdom of God Within.” The older some of us get, the less motivation there is to go to three or four church services a week. But even more important is the fact that there is no reason under the sun to get jacked around by anything external when one of the greatest concepts ever presented to each individual was for God to live in their own spirit (Gospel of John).

There are four Mormon temples within ten miles of my house. Fine, I am not losing any sleep over what may be occurring in those grandiose buildings. The center of the universe is with each individual, making them immune to the feeling of exclusion and the need to be perfect in order to obtain a Temple Recommend.

The true freedom of the gospel does not lend itself well to the enrichment of a few at the expense of the many.