It was the best of times. It was the worst of times. Charles Dicken's 'Tale of Two Cities'
A must read classic.

FCSLC Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Apostle Dog. I remember Harold Bailey talking
> about Bill Mabey crawling. Harold said, “It’s
> not of God,” but that was all. Harold and his
> family quit the church when he got back from
> California and moved to Tucson, AZ with no
> forwarding address except for those he felt he
> could trust. I wish Harold would have explained
> it in more detail (scripturally – he was a
> scriptural giant to many of us) so that the rest
> of the young uninformed congregants in SLC could
> have had a chance at making an informed life
> altering decision.

I bet lots of churches left the walk right after that meeting. That is what Marilyn designed the meeting for, to separate the ones that were not loyal to her from the fellowship.

By the way what does SLC stand for? And also, I am really interested in what happened to all of the churches that were affiliated with Living Word. I know that some of them were already established churches when they came in, they all were not started by JRS for sure. I am always curious as to which ones might have stayed together and become a good healthy church after they left, or if they pretty much all just disbanded.

But back to that meeting, I have no idea how church systems operate, how the money is made, but it seemed to me when I was at that meeting that there was MONEY at stake, it was not lay pastors like in the South that were in it for the people, there were CAREERS at stake. It was certainly a business. All a business.

SLC stands for Salt Lake City. There was a good sized Living Word Church named Faith Chapel in Utah from 1968 to 1986. I was a member from 1970 to 1985, hence the cover name FCSLC.

What Larry Bobo said about a Shiloh pastor being interviewed and saying he could not recall praying for John’s resurrection was an example of LWF authority just reshaping their narratives for their own convenience.

Every civilization develops its narratives – its creation stories, genealogies, stories of battles won and how they came to be. Churches are no different. Martin Luther, Joseph Smith, Mary Baker Eddy, Ron L. Hubbard, the Apostle Paul, Jim Jones -- all claim to have had a unique experience that qualified them to be listened to.

The Walk had its own narrative – none of us were really around during its beginnings, but they involved special prophecies over Robert Stevens, personal appearing of Jesus Christ to him, changing his name to John Robert Stevens, and others. One critic of the Living Word wrote that every time the church was on the verge of a split or crisis, Brother Stevens would have another meeting with the Lord and be able to keep the group going. None of us were there – and we can’t really say for sure if the meetings were real or not.

The big vision of 7 years into the Kingdom came during another time of crisis. John disappeared for an entire day and when he presented the vision to the church later that week he said he’d been so overtaken in the spirit that he had no concept of time or space. The prophets at the Valley church all jumped in with theories of time warps in the spirit, and loud amens to the vision.

Many years after John’s death, a group split off from the church and there discussions around the Valley that one of the Blix girls was supposed to have told Marilyn that she was with John that day and that Marilyn was pissed about it but believed it because the story never quite made sense. Of course, John could have still have been with one of the girls and still had that vision into the future, but he could also have just made up the story as a cover for not being able to account for his whereabouts. Most people just accepted the vision on face value and then based their entire lives on it for the next 30 years. If John did not have the vision, it would constitute a huge betrayal to people who trusted him, even if it was only one episode in a long life of service to God. It doesn’t either invalidate everything he did or let him off the hook, but it’s been excluded from the official narrative. If Gary and Marilyn believed the account of the Blix girl, you have to wonder why they continued to reference the vision year after year, all the way into this year, in fact. Or again, perhaps they did believe her but they also thought that God still gave him the vision. They have remained silent on the matter.

In this modern age, can you afford to say “this vision was not ever confirmed” and still retain your credibility? What if the Mormons were to say, “Okay maybe there wasn’t an Angel Moroni and magic tablets and spectacles helping Joseph Smith translate the Book of Mormon from gold plates. But the rest of our teaching is sound.”

Along the way there were other teachings unique only to them – the unequal yoke justifications to break up marriages or to remarry, the Mom and Dad era which lasted until they decided that they didn’t want to be everyone’s Mom and Dad, which led to the whole era of designated relationships and mentors and teachings about killing the male spirit, worshiping Christ in the flesh, Lamps of Israel, etc.

Gary has become the interpreter of everything that happens to the group. When John died, he rebuked the people who were feeling a release and peace in the spirit – condemning them for feeling satisfied when they should have been pissed over the lack of fulfillment. Later he said that he and Marilyn had noticed a lack of the spirit of Satan in the warfare, and concluded that it was because John had taken down Satan with his death. This was routinely proclaimed and accepted. Sometime after Gary went to seminary, Satan re-emerged in the teachings as a foe to be fought, and the leadership just revised their narrative again and denied that they had ever taught this. Then when other stories about John emerged indicating that he had not always been “faithful” to Marilyn – even though he was not married to her, Gary brought words citing John’s real sin as being disobedience. When someone like Bob McClane died, Gary turned his memorial service into a rant about how pissed he was that Bob did not overcome his weaknesses. When David Boney died from a car accident, it was presented as an act of bravery by someone who wasn’t afraid to go to the other side.

When Marilyn died, Gary told the people that their prayers had not failed, but that she had been transported to the cloud of witnesses and was still alive and functioning from her place in the spirit realm. He is skilled at handling the scriptures, including the Biblical view of what happens in death and after death. But his is also demanding that the people get rid of any confusion about Marilyn’s death and accept at face value his interpretation of what Marilyn’s death means now.

There are other options of interpretation – she might have died of old age. The healing that the churches had claimed was proof that they’d broken into miracles may have been a simple remission followed by a simple relapse. Her life may have been a mixed narrative of great sacrifices to support John and preserve the Word, and great secrecy and manipulation behind the scenes to get his wife out of the picture and herself as his mate. It could be a legacy of making a lot of people feel included mixed with a violent temper and anger that drove others away. Or pulling the pieces together of John’s empire during a difficult time and making it a more efficient group of churches and yet terrorizing a lot of people who didn’t match up to her demands by creating authorities who would enforce her philosophy of “my way or the highway.”

Instead of being instantly elevated to a place of authority in the cloud of witnesses, perhaps her spirit has been freed from her flesh and she is at rest, better able to see what in her life was true and not true. Maybe she found peace, maybe death just brings an end to all the turmoil. No one knows for certain, which is why most people feel humility when their lives are impacted by death.

A little healthy skepticism or a time of waiting for confirmation of these many narratives might have saved a lot of damage to people’s lives. But they are doubling down with greater certainty than ever before.
In many cases the people followed with a simple, childlike trust even while their leaders were more cynical behind the scenes. The end of bringing forth the Kingdom might justify the means in their eyes. But their willingness to engage in cover-ups and the whitewashing of their own narrative to appear more acceptable to the Christian world doesn’t speak well to a community that claims to be pursuing the truth.

It would help sometimes if these great movements would start by taking a version of the Hippocratic oath to “First, do no harm.”

I am not saying this to “bring down the Walk” or even say that God was not ever in the teachings or activities of the church. But for those who have decided to move on to a different way of life, you should know that perhaps you didn’t just “blow out” or lose faith – maybe you were being led into a better and healthier way of life. None of us can reclaim the time we spent there, but it’s still possible to have a meaningful life apart from their heavy hand.

“Larry Bobo wrote in part: 'The 70’s were overshadowed by John’s vision of breaking into the kingdom in 1979... and the coming world destruction. We were into survival training including food storage and studying herbs, the silver mine that would release finances for the word to be published, cutting off family ties, focusing away from personal higher education and careers and working in kingdom businesses...' - Gee Larry, when you put it that way it sounds bad.”

My real point is that all of these "prophesies"were false and nobody seems to care. Deuteronomy 18:19-22 says,”19 I myself will call to account anyone who does not listen to my words that the prophet speaks in my name. 20 But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, is to be put to death.” 21 You may say to yourselves, “How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the LORD?” 22 If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously, so do not be alarmed.”

Within TLWF, the truth no longer matters because you think it carries more weight that you have a revelation of the vessel - and can simply ignore anything else. I would suggest that rather than having a revelation of the vessel, you are actually under the deception of the vessel. Go outside your inbred group and see if anyone else is willing to obey you as Christ in the flesh - they will laugh! Yet you claim to be a part of the overall Body and believe in confirmation. It's like the Pharisees that pile up loads on others, but were not even willing to lift a finger themselves. Others must obey you, but you will not listen to other mature believers in the Body. God will cause it all to work out if you submit and they are wrong anyway, right? Funny how you have such a difficult time swallowing your own medicine. Jesus warned us about those who would come in his name claiming they were the Christ. When you discard the plumb line of the scriptures, there is trouble ahead - in spite of your revelation otherwise. We seem to insist on learning lessons the hard way for some reason.

I appreciate many of AD’s recent posts that highlight the words of Jesus. That to me is evidence the Holy Spirit is at work. The Holy Spirit brings to remembrance all that Jesus taught and he leads us into the truth. The thing that is so profound, as the Holy Spirit brings freedom from the bondage of TLWF, is how clearly Jesus stated what we would need as Christ followers – it’s even in red letters in most translations – and yet we are unable to see it. I’m constantly amazed at what is hidden in plain sight.

As a side note about words from God, God himself calls into account when someone does not follow what a mouthpiece for Him has spoken. (See above scripture) It’s not the responsibility of the speaker to play God and also be the enforcer of that word in another person’s life as happened in TLWF. Granted, nothing would have happened in TLWF if it would have been all left up to God to enforce His own word, because it never was a word from God in the first place. e.g. praying for Martha to die – after all that “intercession”, John died and Martha was unscathed. So much for the “sons of God” super powers.

Well you learn something every day here at the cult forum. So this dude's name isn't JOHN Robert Stevens at all, the John I guess was added so people would think of him as John the Baptist come again... Are you sure that his name was even Robert Stevens? Maybe his real name was Elmer Gantry.

By the way, there are dozens of preachers that sadly mainline Christians seem to be sucked in by that made prophesies all the time that don't come true, but nobody asks any questions about. I still stick with my three P conclusion, don't trust anybody that is a pimp, a politician, and ESPECIALLY a preacher.

With a 35 year investment in TLW (1975-2010), most of which was spent in various pivotal venues, many secondary regimes were observed rising and falling during the two major epochs (JRS/G&M) of the fellowship. Many have come, and most are gone. During the heyday of the church--the days leading up to JRS’ passing--the movement seemed to still have some vibrancy, irrespective of its missteps. The schism of the transition, though, had a debilitative effect from which that vitality was never regained.

For those of us who decided to drink the Kool-Aid back in the early ‘80’s, some of us have managed better than others. For most of the little-people, ignorance provided our ‘bliss’. Dissociation and denial are powerful deterrents against having your bubble popped. Not only was it better to NOT know, it was almost impossible TO know most things that occurred behind closed doors.

Still having contact with many of the ‘faithful’, the remnant seems to fall in three distinct categories: 1) the sycophants of the organizational hierarchy who will either ‘do-or-die’, no matter what the cost; 2) the sweet little-people who have populated the cheap seats for most of their lives and will probably ride things out until their end; and, 3) the fence-sitters who would love to leave but who are too afraid of what would become of their lives after making such a huge investment.

Category 3 is of the most interest following the recent events. I live in a community of many ex-pats who regularly monitor encounters with the fence-sitters for tendencies leaning one way or the other. They are the most receptive. The sweet-people are still sweet. The sycophants are distant and suspicious.

With the long-view in mind, and much perspective gained, TLW has so atrophied over the last 30+ years that it is just another insignificant, highly marginalized and isolated hybrid-Christian cult that has little influence in their respective locales other than possibly providing another flavor of church programs to the community, if even that. There is no new blood, or even any effort to find any, other than those still being born into it. Finances are dwindling, membership is down by either attrition or death, and there is no message that hasn’t been rehashed over and over again for decades. The troops are surviving on very thin rations.

All that to say, this transition, however it shakes out, may be just the open door for those who have thought to exit, to finally find their way to the door. The grass is definitely greener on the other side . . .

The thing that I am looking for next, since the money and the numbers have dwindled down, I expect the people that are left will be given a word that they must give sacrificially for the preservation of the word (which nobody has ever tried to do anything with anyway) and they will do it. Then after they are bled for all the money they can give, the church buildings will be sold and the leadership will head for Brazil, or just settle in one or more of the mansions in Hawaii. End of the Living Word Fellowship.

That's my guess right now.

I know there is lots of property, including a couple of mansions in Hawaii. I also understand that there is a hefty salary for Gary, and Marilyn had one to, or at least that is what I hear. I wonder when all that came into being, did John Robert Stevens have a mansion in Hawaii and in L.A. and just about everywhere he went as well? For some reason I just can't fathom that being the case. I am sure that Lily Rose would know more about that than most as she was in the L.A. churches during the first regime.

I have read that he did have property, not to say that I think that he should have been poor, but it is of interest to me to see if he lived big like the Hargraves. Just for my own information, since I was stupid enough to think that he made just a decent normal salary.