Hi,

I have been reading these forums with great interest for a while now.

I would like your opinion on whether simply reading a book about the ideas that are presented at The Forum and similar LGATs, could be damaging? I am thinking of something like "The Art of Possibility" (ISBN: 0142001104) which seems to be clearly Landmarkian. It would be out of curiosity, and because I have become increasingly interested in the subject of LGATs and cults (and warning people around me, perhaps excessively. :)

Furthermore, my mother is reading a lot of "self-help" books, such as those by Dr Phil. I am quite sure that of course it would make a great difference to actually be at some kind of meeting, having to face fatigue, peer pressure and whatnot, compared to reading a book at ones own leisure. But I am still a bit worried.

What are your thoughts on this?

Regarding large group awareness training (LGAT) also called "mass marathon training" you might find the following additional reading/research helpful.

[www.culteducation.com]

[www.culteducation.com]

Here is information avaiable about specific companies or organizations that essentially sell LGAT:

[www.culteducation.com]

[www.culteducation.com]

[www.culteducation.com]

[www.culteducation.com]

[www.culteducation.com]

[www.culteducation.com]

[www.culteducation.com]

[www.culteducation.com]

I don't see how reading a book can in anyway compare to the psychological and physical pressures of participating in a LGAT. It wouldn''t be any different than getting advice - it may be good, it may be bad and it all depends on how it's used.

Hi parabola,

I've got that book, and it does cover a lot of similar material, but is not the same as working through the things in your life.

What I'd suggest is to go and talk to people who have done the various courses, rather than looking for answers on the Internet. Rather than looking for opinions, look for results.

I did a course (I'm not going to say which, as I don't want to contravene the T&Cs of this site), and the reason I did it was because I saw the difference it made to a friend of mine.

I got the results that I wanted and much more.

Regarding self-help books. Mmm. I'd read loads of them prior to taking part, and I was frustrated at trying to get somewhere in life and not being happy. I finally got to see that I was living the decisions of a young child, and that one key decision "to show those bullies" was behind my long work hours and desire to be a millionaire, which was costing me my health, friendships and happiness. None of those books worked, as there just wasn't the same environment. I an LGAT-style environment, it was different. There was someone asking probing questions, and I got to see elements of my difficulties when other people were working with the leader.
Whatever the case. Have fun, and trust yourself. You can't come to any harm in most of these courses. If anything, you might come to more harm staying home getting stressed and wound up, wondering what the answer is :wink:

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You can't come to any harm in most of these courses. If anything, you might come to more harm staying home getting stressed and wound up, wondering what the answer is

Please be aware that this is a sales pitch for an LGAT. Please note that "livinglife" hadn't said anything of substance in his/her post. There's nothing "taught"in these "courses" that can't be learned through living life...in fact, at the end of the seminar they'll tell you that "you knew all this already" and that "understanding is the booby prize." The one or two decent concepts they "teach" you've undoubtedly already read about, so there will be nothing new "taught" at any of these seminars.

The purpose of these LGATs is to sell seminars and make money for the top people in the organization. They'll use hypnosis, regression, guided imagery and a host of other psychological techniques to help get you "addicted" to taking even more seminars so they'll make even more money.

What actually happens in one of these weekend "seminars"? Here are two good resources to help explain what actually transpires (someone who's trying to sell them to you won't actually tell you any of this):

[www.culteducation.com]

[www.culteducation.com]

Glam

Glam.

Thanks for your response. You've immediately confirmed that I need not bother writing any more posts on this forum.

As for the real results... blimey... and you're talking about brainwashing.

In my own life, I have at least 10 friends who have done the Landmark Forum. For each one of them, I know of specific results that they got in that one weekend. They're not made up, they're results where they saw something about how they live their life, and something entirely new became possible.

One example. And yes, this is a real story. My sister had a 3 year old son, as a single mother. The father hadn't wanted to know, when she got pregnant. Or so we all thought. After her Landmark Forum, she phoned the real father and told him that he had a son. It turned out that she got pregnant around the point of splitting with one boyfriend and getting together with another, and her initial dates of conception were wrong. She told us that M was the father, and then later had her scan, her dates were revisted and it turned out that G is the father. She was scared of our mother thinking she was a slut, so she didn't say. She told G too, and created a partnership with him as parents. What has happened in the 4 years since is crazy. My sister and G spent time together with their son, realised what they saw in each other those years ago, and are now together, and expecting their second child.

She may well have finally opened up about all of this, but the Landmark Forum gave her a safe space to do that. The scary possible alternative is that she might have gone hiding this, and hating herself for that.

What the Landmark Forum was for her was a safe accelerator.

So. Please! Stop saying there aren't results produced. There are, and you can find plenty of research and newspaper articles to that effect too!

What's more dubious is the claims of this site. You're quoting stuff about brainwashing, and I can only suggest that maybe you are brainwashed into thinking that it isn't possible for people to shift their lives in a positive way.

Sorry if I'm being blunt, but when you talk about me on a site in the third person, in such condescending and dismissive terms, then you're rather asking for it.
:D

These so-called self-improvement books serve a few purposes.
#1, if they sell, they can MAKE MONEY.

But they are also great advertising, and they are used as a HOOK to get you to try something more, like an audio-tape, or a short seminar, etc.
Its a HOOK, they can get in your mouth, and then start "upselling" you to more expensive products. Even Dr Phil is selling more things to people.

The "advice" from "lovinglife" could get you into real trouble.
Do the opposite of what she said!

This is a good self-help book, and its free.
[mentalhelp.net]

Coz

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So. Please! Stop saying there aren't results produced. There are, and you can find plenty of research and newspaper articles to that effect too!

Sure there are. Could you please point us to research and newspaper articles that offer substantiated, measurable results produced by Landmark?

Here you go:

People's experiences

Independent Case Studies

And how many newspaper articles can you find at:

Newspaper Articles List

Quote

Here you go:

People's experiences

Independent Case Studies

And how many newspaper articles can you find at:

Newspaper Articles List

I'm sorry...you must have misunderstood. I asked for research and newspaper articles that offer [b:f9386ac136]substantiated, measurable results[/b:f9386ac136], not testimonials from attendees who are likely to be under hypnotic or other psychological influences, or case studies by groups that were paid by Landmark.

Can you point us to those? Scientific studies, comparing Landmark graduates with a peer control group that shows a measurable increase in income, or a measurable decrease in divorce rates/suicide rates etc.? Surely, after 30 years, this must be readily available?