What "ebicidic" is saying here is full of misinformation, and perhaps much worse.
This person admits to NEVER ATTENDING A ROBBINS LGAT, yet feels qualified in discussing it?

-your view of what an LGAT is, or is not, is not accurate, and does not reflect what has been carefully documented. Robbins seminars are full of "mind control" from top to bottom, and Robbins does not even deny this, he thinks its funny. Ask him sometime.
-If the Robbins salespeople think you have money, they will call you. But they will target you at a LIVE EVENT, where they can sink their teeth into you. They will target you when you fill out surveys about your assets.
-Tony has screwed his Franchisees the worst of anyone, many of them have gone bankrupt. They can't speak about it openly, for fear of being sued, as Robbins is very lawsuit crazy.
-Robbins message boards are not "open-source" and Robbins does not pay for them. It appears he licenses them to others, and they pay for them, in exchange for them being able to grab seminar commissions from people they target with personal emails, and calls.
-Robbins is not openly criticized on his website. All serious complaints are deleted even before anyone can see them. Of course, they let a few tame criticisms of him through, to give the appearance of being open to criticism.
-what you say about the comments not being deleted is false. Straight up false, so you either are not aware of the facts, or are being dishonest.
-Robbins does not encourage criticism on his website, that is a false statement.
-Tony Robbins is far more than a "coach", he is an expert in "mind control" in the most literal sense.
-hundreds of people, thousands, have spent 30K ad much more, on Robbins programs, if you don't know that, you either are unaware, or are not being honest. Mastery University is 30K. Wake up.
-the people who "Crew" work 18 hrs a day, for no money. Tony thinks its funny that he can get people to work 18 hrs a day for free, while paying their own hotel and flight, and tell themselves they are getting a great deal.

"ebicidic" could possibly be completely unaware of what is going on with Robbins, and could be just at the point to go from the "books and tapes" (which are the fish-hook and bait), to being reeled in, and attending the live LGAT seminars, which start at about $1,000, and then go to 10K, then 30K, and then up to 60K+, if you have access to that kind of money, and are one of the "chosen few" who are "suggestible" enough, and have some family money to burn, or a large credit line.
But "ebicidic" has made a series of false and incorrect comments in their post, so it seems that they are deliberately trying to use "spin" to support the Robbins agenda.

To read up on the facts and dangers of Robbins 30K+ Mastery University, visit the website www.Tony-Robbins.org

(quote from...)
[www.tony-robbins.org]
My friend spent £35,000 (about $60,000) on Robbins in the last 2 years. All on credit cards. And he doesn't even have a job!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hey, I did attend a recent UPW event...physically, personally... I don't know what "mind control" means... my personal impression was the whole thing was just nuts.. like being trapped inside the brain of a hyperkinetic madman.. I could easily see how an unstable person could be pushed into an overexited state... and on the other hand how this might hold a great attraction for certain sorts of stimulation seeking personality types... there was a clear feeling of subtle zombification and hyperconformity among his staff... they got the vibe quickly and clearly from me that I was no easy mark and they made a point to stay away from me... also, I've know a couple of Tony's trainers, one is actually a friend... and their lives are not so dramatically great, not horrible or anything, but nothing like "unlimited" an any sense of the word...and the funny thing... they NEVER talk about their days with the Robbins Organization... ya gotta wonder...

Hey neutino, yes, the UPW weekend is a massive manipulation. As far as "mind control", its everything that all these types of groups use on people, and Robbins does all of it, and then some.
[culteducation.com]
As has been mentioned by others, what Robbins does is called Unconscious Influence, that is, getting you to do what he wants you to do, without you being aware of what he is doing to you. Non-sceptical, trusting, "soccer-moms" are the ones that fall for his stuff the worst, and just lay down 10's of thousands of dollars...for basically nothing in the end.

The UPW seminar, is really a type of "filter" where Robbins highly trained salespeople look for easy marks, people who they can upsell and sign up THAT NIGHT to Mastery University, Coaching, etc. They target, and sign as many people up as possible that night, but they can't waste time on people who are a hard sell. UPW is like a big fish net, and they focus on getting their hooks into the big fat fish without defenses, they go for the easy ones, that look like they have some $. They can find this out easily, when they get people to fill out forms for the Financial Courses, they get you do fill out a Net Worth Statement...and guess what? If you have some $, you go on their special list!
;-)
But they leave the tough cases alone, they just focus on the easy marks, like any good con.

As far as the Tony Trainers, that can be tricky. Robbins hires very few people, he is able to get most people to work on 100% commission, or even for free, like most people who "work" at his seminars. So those trainers could have been working for one of the Franchisees, which means they would be on 100% commission, or some other side deal.
I would be very surprised if Robbins ever paid them one cent, Robbins doesn't pay anyone if he can get away with it. That's why he's rich.

Also, anyone deeply involved in the Robbins organization is amazingly dishonest, even with themselves. Often they will simply lie about their "success", exaggerate their incomes, etc, like people in Amway do, to try and sell people. Just like Robbins, who talks about his wonderful family for years, when in reality his family was a total disaster.
Many of them are self-deluded, in debt up to their ears, until one day it all crashes in around them.

Robbins also has set up his system that when you fail to achieve your extreme goals, you BLAME YOURSELF. Most people blame themselves for being a human, and not a super-human.
Robbins is a master con-man, he's so good he is taken to be legit by most people.

But again, not every person who reads his book gives him 30K. Its a filtering process, and they look for the suckers, like all these groups do.
And since Robbins salespeople are all 100% commission, this is what makes them so ruthless, as that is where they make their money.
Robbins is the ultimate wolf in sheeps clothing, but sadly some people have to go through Mastery University, and all the other junk for 5 years, until they realize what just happened to them. Many just blame themselves.

Quote
The Anticult
What "ebicidic" is saying here is full of misinformation, and perhaps much worse.
This person admits to NEVER ATTENDING A ROBBINS LGAT, yet feels qualified in discussing it?

-your view of what an LGAT is, or is not, is not accurate, and does not reflect what has been carefully documented. Robbins seminars are full of "mind control" from top to bottom, and Robbins does not even deny this, he thinks its funny. Ask him sometime.
-If the Robbins salespeople think you have money, they will call you. But they will target you at a LIVE EVENT, where they can sink their teeth into you. They will target you when you fill out surveys about your assets.
-Tony has screwed his Franchisees the worst of anyone, many of them have gone bankrupt. They can't speak about it openly, for fear of being sued, as Robbins is very lawsuit crazy.
-Robbins message boards are not "open-source" and Robbins does not pay for them. It appears he licenses them to others, and they pay for them, in exchange for them being able to grab seminar commissions from people they target with personal emails, and calls.
-Robbins is not openly criticized on his website. All serious complaints are deleted even before anyone can see them. Of course, they let a few tame criticisms of him through, to give the appearance of being open to criticism.
-what you say about the comments not being deleted is false. Straight up false, so you either are not aware of the facts, or are being dishonest.
-Robbins does not encourage criticism on his website, that is a false statement.
-Tony Robbins is far more than a "coach", he is an expert in "mind control" in the most literal sense.
-hundreds of people, thousands, have spent 30K ad much more, on Robbins programs, if you don't know that, you either are unaware, or are not being honest. Mastery University is 30K. Wake up.
-the people who "Crew" work 18 hrs a day, for no money. Tony thinks its funny that he can get people to work 18 hrs a day for free, while paying their own hotel and flight, and tell themselves they are getting a great deal.

"ebicidic" could possibly be completely unaware of what is going on with Robbins, and could be just at the point to go from the "books and tapes" (which are the fish-hook and bait), to being reeled in, and attending the live LGAT seminars, which start at about $1,000, and then go to 10K, then 30K, and then up to 60K+, if you have access to that kind of money, and are one of the "chosen few" who are "suggestible" enough, and have some family money to burn, or a large credit line.
But "ebicidic" has made a series of false and incorrect comments in their post, so it seems that they are deliberately trying to use "spin" to support the Robbins agenda.

To read up on the facts and dangers of Robbins 30K+ Mastery University, visit the website www.Tony-Robbins.org

(quote from...)
[www.tony-robbins.org]
My friend spent £35,000 (about $60,000) on Robbins in the last 2 years. All on credit cards. And he doesn't even have a job!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ok. Re-read your post. I am laughing at your attempts to point out things that aren't there. There ARE criticisms of Robbins on the bulletin board which is owned and run by his company. When I prove this, repeatably, with a current link, you deny it exists. What part of this post isn't creepy?

And by the way, the LGAT seminar I was interested in was $700. Which is the price I quoted in my post. They do not start at around $1000, they start at $700.

And how is tony-robbins.org any more factual than this very site or the Tony Robbins bulletin board? I called BS on many friend-of-a-friend hoax posts right here. They are not reliable as fact. How is tony-robbins.org going to be more true than this board? Where is the critical reasoning?

What is your definition of the term "paranoid?"

People pay for a lot of dumb things that all corporations (and politicians) are willing to sell them. There is a neighbor kid on our block who was so wrapped up in modern gangster rap that he spent thousands of dollars to buy clothes, a car, and then trick out his car with dubs, spinners and the like. He wanted to appear "street" at the Large Group concerts that encouraged him to graduate to the smaller, more exclusive VIP rooms that required a lot more money. He was so hypnotised by the music that these corporations put out that he ended up selling drugs to get money to keep up this lifestyle. Yesterday evening my wife witnessed him get arrested and his mother told us this story. Here is a series of inter-related corporations that paid for lifestyle accountrements to be referenced in the songs, these companies advertise on the websites and in magazines, they encourage over-spending on car tires and hubcaps and in the end the culture landed him in jail on drugs.

In your worldview, is that corporate "mind control" or is that someone making a series of bad decisions? Are political rallies "mind control" in your worldview? I am far more anti-cult than you could imagine from my posts.

Regardless, and I really do mean regardless, of Tony Robbins' divorce, I don't think he had any bum advice on any of his cds, nothing he suggested that I felt was a good idea failed. I listened to a CD series that suggested to go out and make that phone call I'd been putting off- a silly thing to say, right, because he wouldn't know what we were putting off, but I did it and each time I listened to the CDs again I continually made those calls I was putting off and if somehow that shows that I'm weak or maybe just forgetful, it was worth being told that again and again in a coach-like atmosphere. But above you state that the books are just a filter to get people in for more serious training/coaching. Well, what if they aren't or, conversely, how many authors do you know who don't make money on their books but instead make it up by signing on with corporations to do consulting? I know one such author. Her book made her about $50k (I think) but she made twice that in speaking at corporate events. That's the non-fiction book business.

Ebicidic

Quote
The Anticult
Hey neutino, yes, the UPW weekend is a massive manipulation. As far as "mind control", its everything that all these types of groups use on people, and Robbins does all of it, and then some.
[culteducation.com]
As has been mentioned by others, what Robbins does is called Unconscious Influence, that is, getting you to do what he wants you to do, without you being aware of what he is doing to you. Non-sceptical, trusting, "soccer-moms" are the ones that fall for his stuff the worst, and just lay down 10's of thousands of dollars...for basically nothing in the end.

The UPW seminar, is really a type of "filter" where Robbins highly trained salespeople look for easy marks, people who they can upsell and sign up THAT NIGHT to Mastery University, Coaching, etc. They target, and sign as many people up as possible that night, but they can't waste time on people who are a hard sell. UPW is like a big fish net, and they focus on getting their hooks into the big fat fish without defenses, they go for the easy ones, that look like they have some $. They can find this out easily, when they get people to fill out forms for the Financial Courses, they get you do fill out a Net Worth Statement...and guess what? If you have some $, you go on their special list!
;-)
But they leave the tough cases alone, they just focus on the easy marks, like any good con.

As far as the Tony Trainers, that can be tricky. Robbins hires very few people, he is able to get most people to work on 100% commission, or even for free, like most people who "work" at his seminars. So those trainers could have been working for one of the Franchisees, which means they would be on 100% commission, or some other side deal.
I would be very surprised if Robbins ever paid them one cent, Robbins doesn't pay anyone if he can get away with it. That's why he's rich.

Also, anyone deeply involved in the Robbins organization is amazingly dishonest, even with themselves. Often they will simply lie about their "success", exaggerate their incomes, etc, like people in Amway do, to try and sell people. Just like Robbins, who talks about his wonderful family for years, when in reality his family was a total disaster.
Many of them are self-deluded, in debt up to their ears, until one day it all crashes in around them.

Robbins also has set up his system that when you fail to achieve your extreme goals, you BLAME YOURSELF. Most people blame themselves for being a human, and not a super-human.
Robbins is a master con-man, he's so good he is taken to be legit by most people.

But again, not every person who reads his book gives him 30K. Its a filtering process, and they look for the suckers, like all these groups do.
And since Robbins salespeople are all 100% commission, this is what makes them so ruthless, as that is where they make their money.
Robbins is the ultimate wolf in sheeps clothing, but sadly some people have to go through Mastery University, and all the other junk for 5 years, until they realize what just happened to them. Many just blame themselves.

Beautifully put, Anticult, and a perfect summation.


Ellen

It is possible to have virtuous information available from a teacher, as with Tony, I have enjoyed and benefitted from a judicious selection of his
PowerTalk tape series... so I assume you can have a kind of "split personality" organization that does good on one hand and other stuff on the other hand... it's realy hard to know exactly what rationalizations, thought processes, or corporate politics have done to set all of these pieces in motion... maybe Tony really believes that his expensive, advanced level involvements produce the results they say they do, maybe he's a complete cynic about it, or some inexplicable combination of the two... I was curious enough from what I'd read and listened to that I wanted to see for myself... BTW... the "cheap seats" are $700, and the price tag rises dramatically as you get closer to The Man, you'll shell out $2500 for ringside... where I was the cheap seats were pretty bad too, way in the back so you could only follow Tony on the big screens... Tony likes his room COLD... gawdawful freezing cold to accomodate his metabolism or something, and he likes his PA system LOUD... and the whole experience is WEIRD.... like WTF is going on here ? weird... one thing that got my attention is that he asked for a show of hands of how many in the audience were self employed/small business owner types, a huge majority were, then he asked how many suffered from depression, and a large number raised their hands.. so I infer that there are a lot of depressed people who want to break out of their life prisons who will pony up the money on the theory that the UPW will "liberate" them, or whatever... I know one women who is an avid crew member, she seems mostly a mixture of insecurity, arrogance, and confusion to me... but she is very proud of her ability to break a 1" soft pine board, so she did get that skill from her trainings... when you go in there to sign up, you get the feeling that they are checking you out REAL carefully on a number of levels, especially since I paid for one of the good seats... go figure

Pine boards has been sawed wit grains across shorter side of rectangular. Easy to be broken even kids could do that.

[one thing that got my attention is that he asked for a show of hands of how many in the audience were self employed/small business owner types, a huge majority were, then he asked how many suffered from depression, and a large number raised their hands)


did you notice if tony put his hand up too
when he asked the question
and that a lot of people
raised their hands not to feel left out,?
other things tony would have said was if you AGREE WITH ME say aye
of course again people said aye,
even if they dont agree

Yeah, breaking those boards is very easy. I did it myself, after a few minutes of tips. This is how you do it. You learn how to straight-punch with the heel of your hand, and you just punch right THROUGH the board. I did it very easily, first try. But about 50% of people hurt their hand pretty bad. But its just a simple parlor trick.

I was taught that by a Robbins Franchisee, who was the biggest Tony Fan on earth. Well, a few years later, he ended up going bankrupt from his Robbins Franchise, and his Robbins Franchise wrecked his life, and wrecked his family.
Tony Robbins conned this simple guy out of his house, and all his assets, to the tune of about $300,000.00
The guy mortgaged his house with loans to pay Robbins cash for the Franchise, Robbins then OVERSOLD the area with too many Franchises to get as much $ as possible, and he then went broke over a couple of years, as did ALL of the other Franchisees in the area. Once Tony had his money, it was TALK TO THE LAWYER. Robbins never spoke with him after he got the money, but before he got the money, Robbins was his "best friend". Its the same con over and over. Tony is your good buddy, until the checks clear the bank, and things go sour. Then its between you and his lawyers. Have fun.

As has been mentioned, its $700 for the "cheap seats". This does not include hotel, food, or transportation, and also buying more junk at the seminar. So it all starts at about $1,000 minimum. So the "self-delusion" starts already with telling yourself its "only $700".
Add in the TAX, cabs, hotel, food, products, buying coaching and other crap at the seminar.
Also add in the LOST WAGES from being away from work, etc.
That is the same sales-trick they use for Mastery University, they don't include airfare, resort fees, etc, that doubles and TRIPLES the so-called price!
That is one of their many sales-tactics.

The so-called criticisms of Robbins on his own message board, are very tepid and tame, put there to make people think that its ok to criticize Robbins. But the Robbins message board has just been re-organized, and now they literally disallow almost anything other than praise for Robbins. They are even blocking criticism of the Mods now! (those Senior Mods are all some type of 100% commissioned salesmen for Robbins).
Also, the Robbins message board Mods have literally deleted hundreds and hundreds of critical posts about Robbins over the years. That is a fact.

Tony-Robbins.org is very factual, and shows what can happen at one of those seminars. Mastery University is a rip-off. Actually, that is the LESSON of MU. The lesson is: [b:12c93dd702]"there are people in this world who can sell you almost anything, or even nothing, and charge you 30K for it".[/color:12c93dd702][/b:12c93dd702]That is literally the lesson of Mastery University.

As far as forcing yourself to make a phone call...that is GOOD. That is not Tony Robbins, that is Behavioral Therapy. That's great, and that's all you need. Tony Robbins got that stuff from NLP and Richard Bandler.
But that's not the problem, the problem is for people who get sucked into his Personality Cult.

Isn't it weird that people think Robbins is their "best friend" yet they have never met him, or even SEEN him in person? That is by design.

I know you don't want my advice, but here it is. Forget the Robbins Seminars. If the books helped you take some Behavioral Action, fine, thats pure Behavioral Therapy.

The problem is when vulnerable people get lured into going to the Robbins Seminars, and even into the "Platinum Partnership" or any of those scams, and giving Robbins tens of thousands of $, or even more.

Robbins designed his system like this.
If you succeed, you give him the credit.
If you fail, then you blame yourself, for not working hard enough.

You know what? When you succeed, its because of YOU, and not Tony Robbins tapes. Its because you pushed yourself to take behavioral action, which is pure behavior therapy.

Robbins is a very complex, and tricky character. He doesn't believe 90% of the junk he says, like most of that Health Quackery. He is doing it because he wants to be a Billionaire, and needs to sell tons of product.

But, for those who are Tony Fans, sadly, they are going to be taught a harsh lesson they will never forget for the rest of their lives.
Here's the lesson.

[b:12c93dd702]There are people in this world, who are so slick, so skilled, that they can sell you almost anything at any price, modify your beliefs without your conscious awareness, and empty your bank account, and make you feel like they are doing you a favor[/color:12c93dd702].[/b:12c93dd702]

Sadly, some people need to have this actually happen to them before they believe it. The sharks can see another shark at work, and protect themselves.

But its the most decent, trusting and honest people who get hammered the worst.

Quote
nutrino
maybe Tony really believes that his expensive, advanced level involvements produce the results they say they do, maybe he's a complete cynic about it, or some inexplicable combination of the two... he asked for a show of hands of how many in the audience were self employed/small business owner types, a huge majority were, then he asked how many suffered from depression, and a large number raised their hands..

Some excellent observations. I would love to go see Tony again myself to analyze him again, get in free or cheap, if he would come to my city. But EVERY promoter who brought Robbins to my city lost money, or went bankrupt over it, so no one will bring him back. You see, Robbins forces the promoters to pay him upfront before he comes. So they have to borrow the $, and then try to fill the venue. They end up selling DEEPLY discounted tickets to ReMax, or whoever, just to try to break even. Tony gets rich, the promoters risk their shirts, or lose them. That is the Tony business model. (to get a cheap ticket, call the promoter right before the event, and offer him pennies on the $, or leave early like it says on the ticket to get a refund, but read that fine print VERY carefully).

Personally, I think Robbins is a complete cynic. He knows that he sees the same faces at each seminar, and they don't get much better.
Here is the scam. If you have an audience of 1000, then maybe 1% of that audience will have good success, that is statistics. So these are the people Robbins gets to endorse him.
The majority of people who don't improve either blame themselves, or even lie to themselves about it. Also, you will never see a room of bigger liars than at a Robbins event, they will lie constantly about their "success" just to prop up their ego, when they could be on the edge of bankruptcy, or in bankruptcy, divorce, or whatever.

And you could see that most people were Self-Employed and depressed, which is the target audience. Hurting people with a credit line.

Robbins is a cynic.
For instance the Platinum Partnership was created by Tony so he could get PAID to take vacations, and have a bunch of chumps pay him 60K a YEAR, so they could "be his friend". That is what it is.
They pay Robbins 60K a year, so they can go on a large adventure vacation with him, and then tell their friends that "Tony is my friend".
That is diabolical.