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My husband lost his job b/c he would not do the LANDMARK FORUM
Posted by: Makeup ()
Date: August 24, 2008 11:20PM

We need help! I have no idea where to start. My husband lost his job yesterday because he refused to go to the Landmark forum 4 day induction. He was tricked into going to the seminar last Tuesday night. When he told his boss that he wanted to discuss the program with me (his wife) his boss ignored him and signed him up anyway & paid the $500. He said that he wanted him to join. He told him that anyone that works at his job will attend landmark. His boss has been harassing him all week about the program because his boss knew that I did not want him to go. That made him mad. So When he picked up his check yesterday he told his boss that he could not participate in the forum because he was on medication & his boss said “ he has heard enough bull-shit”. & said that if he didn’t participate that he is not to come into work on Monday that he was fired. His boss was mad because I said that it was a cult. My husband is on 3 of the medications that are listed on the enrollment form that landmark suggests you not participate in the program if you are on any of them. I should mention that my husband is Bi-Polar. I know that we have some sort of case against his boss but I just don’t know where to start.

It's Sunday Morning & my husband is so depressed that he has not got out of bed since Friday around 6:30 pm. He has only got out 1 time to eat a bowl of cereal. I am thinking of bringing him to the ER. Gosh what a nightmare!

The company that he worked for has only 7 employees and the lady that I spoke to yesterday said that they could not help us because he didn’t have 15 or more employees. She gace me a Federal phone number to contact. I will call that on Monday but if you have any ideas or suggestions I would surely appreciate any help that you can give.

I apologize for the way this may read…. I have been up all night with worry that my husband doesn’t have a job.

Thank you for any help in advance!

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Re: My husband lost his job b/c he would not do the LANDMARK FORUM
Posted by: John Fox ()
Date: August 25, 2008 05:36AM

Hi Makeup,

Just responded to your other post on this topic and now that I've read this it makes even more sense.

First things first, get that $500 back and don't accept "no" for an answer from Landmark Education. If it was paid by credit card, then have the cc company reverse the fee. Some of the others here will be able to give better targeted advice for getting your money back from Landmark due to their experience.

I can only guess that it might be worthwhile to give a heads-up to his doctor about the events of late ... just in case there is something that can be given for a temporary morale boost. But also because it becomes a more credible 'official' record of how he was going and then the effects of the events you describe above. Handy to have, should you discover that you have a case against his boss.

Reply and check back whenever you can. There is always someone on these boards 24/7.


PS. Hang in there!

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Re: My husband lost his job b/c he would not do the LANDMARK FORUM
Posted by: pauker ()
Date: August 25, 2008 08:42AM

Get yourself a mean, bull-dog trial attorney who will take your case and charge based on a %age of the take if you win -- not on an hourly basis. Then see if you can sue the company.

If your husband has a psychiatrist, call him now. See if there's anything he/she can give him.

Once your Husband comes around to the point that he can listen to you well, try and assure him that, on another level, he dodged a potentially bigger bullet. By that I mean that these Landmark trainings can trigger a whopper of a manic episode in those already diagnosed with the disease. I've seen this more than once, myself.

Hang in there.

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Re: My husband lost his job b/c he would not do the LANDMARK FORUM
Posted by: nettie ()
Date: August 25, 2008 12:26PM

Hi makeup,

I am very saddened to hear about what has happened.

I would try here to prioritize thing;

1. take care of you husband.
He should not take the forum with his bi-polar condition and he should probably not be working at that place anyway.

2. get a refund if your husband paid for it himself. That should not be any problem since he is on medication.

3. get a lawyer (wait with this a while). But to sue will probably be a tough case.

Most important: relax and take care of yourself. You have been in close contact with cult that is very abusive. Be thankful that your husband will not go to the forum and that he is out of THAT job. I know this sounds like bad news (about the job) but it is probably for the best. For people with bipolar conditions landmark can be very dangerous. Even to be around people that have done the forum and are cult indoctrinated can be harmful.

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Re: My husband lost his job b/c he would not do the LANDMARK FORUM
Posted by: John Fox ()
Date: August 25, 2008 01:08PM

Oh yeah ... and tell your husband that he did well to make the right choice while standing up to fierce opposition from his superiors. That's real strength.


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Re: My husband lost his job b/c he would not do the LANDMARK FORUM
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: August 25, 2008 10:42PM

Make sure your husband checks with his prescribing psychiatrist. Just the stress of fighting off his boss could be enough to put his mood stablity at risk.

A neighbor of mine is an RN and also has bipolar. He told me that he discovered that he could not remain stable and get full benefit from his medication unless he stopped working night shift. He was sorry to sacrifice
the extra income and flexibility but the disruption in his mood triggered by
night shift work just was not worth it.

My RN buddy mentioned he had been in a near miss auto incident that stressed him out. He was on his motorcycle and someone sideswiped him and scared him. He was not harmed physically, but the blast of cortisol and adrenaline sent him off kilter, even though he was faithfully taking his medicine.

The nurse understood his needs, was tracking his mood and saw that he was not calming down after the accident. So he phoned his prescribing psychiatrist, and the MD prescribed a temporary adjustment in the medication that kept my friend grounded. Later on he was able to taper his dose.

I am saying all this just to assure you that your husband did 100% right in refusing to attend that event and two the stress of being pressured by his boss may be in itself enough to put him at risk of a mood upset.

So do what the others have advised and call your prescribing psychiatrist AND get a top notch attorney.

** Tactical note. There may be a deadline, past which you cannot file a complaint. So even if right now you dont think you want to consult an attorney, at least

1) get an attorney's name and phone number and

2) find out about filing deadlines.

Because if you wait until later, the crisis has passed and you decide to take legal action, you may discover you cant do anything because the deadline has passed without your knowing it.

So finding out about filing deadlines doesnt mean that right now you have to take legal action. But it lets you know the window of time you have in which to do so. You can take care of your husbands medical crisis first and know how much time you still have to consult a lawyer. least find and get a lawyers name so you have someone in your Rolodex for future reference.

**Anything that disrupts sleep is bad for someone with bipolar. This is not a matter of belief or of being a weak person or of 'letting your beliefs hold you back.' Bipolar is a medical condition that is affected by sleep disruption, just the way eating 5 pounds of sugar is a disaster for anyone who has diabetes.

A social worker friend who has worked with many persons with bipolar told me that one needs 8 hours of good quality sleep and--interesting--should get up at dawn and not earlier. Someone told me she'd heard the same thing in a bipolar support group.

Take good care. Your husband is in a position like that of a diabetic whose boss is trying to force feed him an entire chocolate cake, despite being told it is medically counter indicated.

Note: If you guys are not yet in a support group for persons with bipolar, find one. It may take time to find a group that feels right, but I think that if you do, you both will feel much less alone and also get a wealth of good tips.

Years ago I had the pleasure of an e-mail corespondance with a lady who had the condition and worked in a very exciting and high pressure business environment. She said she was convinced that did as well as she did because so many of her CEOs were bipolar that she could understand them.

But she said that to be stable she had to make peace with safeguarding her sleep, eating a good diet, checking in with her prescribing psychiatrist and knowing when to take breaks.

Again, if you are not already in one, get a support group. It can be very difficult getting social support in protecting one's human right to go home early and get 8 hours of sleep, but for anyone with bipolar that is a medical necessity. I read of someone who stated that he had his first bipolar swing when he was a youngster and took his first transcontinental plane flight from the US to Australia. Flying through all those time zones disrupted his circadian rhythm and he was thousands of miles from home
when he had this happen to him.

A support group will clue you in on all this and more.

(Note: get this sorted out before you consider starting a family. Having little kids can mean running short on sleep)

Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 08/25/2008 10:54PM by corboy.

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Re: My husband lost his job b/c he would not do the LANDMARK FORUM
Posted by: John Fox ()
Date: August 26, 2008 10:50PM

De-duplication note: For all following this thread, please re-route your browser by clicking here.



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Re: My husband lost his job b/c he would not do the LANDMARK FORUM
Posted by: Elaine ()
Date: August 27, 2008 04:30AM

Makeup - get yourself a job in the meantime, how else will you support your husband? And resolve any issues first by communicating with your husband's employer, then with an attorney, if the chat with the employer bears no successful outcome for both of you (you and his employer). No one is allowed to force people into taking the Landmark Forum - however, no one can also preclude an employer from listing attendance of the Landmark Forum as a condition of employment, just as one can not preclude an employer from listing an educational requirement (e.g. a B.S. or M.S. degree in some specialty) as a condition of employment.

I would definitely take up the issue with the employer before I pursue force (e.g. the court system). There's nothing that can not be resolved through communication.


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Re: My husband lost his job b/c he would not do the LANDMARK FORUM
Posted by: rrmoderator ()
Date: August 27, 2008 04:40AM


I disagree with Elaine's assessment and advice.

Consulting an attorney first would be in your best interest.

Find a good employment attorney.

Requiring someone to learn Werner Erhard's beliefs/philosophy as a job requirement, seems dubious and probably illegal from an employment perspective.

No one should be forced to change their personal beliefs by an employer, this could easily be seen as religious discrimination.

Employers have been sued for this, i.e. forcing employees to take the Forum through Est or Landmark.

Employers that have employees take thinly disguised Scientology courses through work have likewise been sued.

This is something that requires expert legal advice.

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Re: My husband lost his job b/c he would not do the LANDMARK FORUM
Posted by: Hope ()
Date: August 27, 2008 04:43AM

If you are hesitant about immediately obtaining legal counsel, at least contact your state Attorney General's office and/or Labor Dept. Be careful how far you go with them, however, as it could preclude a legal case if you decided to go that route later on.

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