And just as an aside, this company's chances of continued success has been dealt a whopping subversive blow from within by so many folks becoming Lekkies. The group will function LESS as a team as more people will begin acting in manic and self-absorbed ways - in other words, more like it's evil boss. Its part of the 'Laws of Unintended Consequences.'

It could also be called 'Unsightly Karmic Buildup.'

Get a Lawyer immediately! Your husband cannot be forced to take any course which is not required by law for his continual employment. What your husbands boss did is completely illegal, but is imoral as well. Landmark Education is not a true educational institution which provides sales skills, it is a highly manipulative organization built on the principles set down by Werner Erhard. Erhard was a mess of a man and quite abusive, I met him personally while my mother was involved with the group in the 1970's.

Do not let your husband or yourself be intimidated by your husbands boss! This is what he wants and if you stand your ground, he will loose. If you choose not to go that route, then go above his head and contact the organizations upper hierarchy. This is a complete violation of human rights. It is like demanding that everyone in an organization be part of the same church!

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corboy
Things to Make and Do

Go to the search button on the upper right corner of the message board window.

Open it and go to the 'author search' slot.

Put 'Elaine' into the author search slot and select 'all forums' and 'all dates.'

There are just 5 posts by Elaine, making this quite manageable.

Read them, starting from the earliest to the most recent one.

You will see a pattern that matches what I privately term 'sleeper troll' -- someone who starts off helpfully, but drops a few clues here and there.

And in the most recent post, drops the facade and reveals the actual allegiance.

Any time someone's posted material gives an 'iffy feeling' do this kind of auditing of someone's written output.

We had to learn to do this over on the Byron Katie thread, given the number of disruptive visitors who showed up.

Any concerns or doubts...take em to Mr. Ross.

C

Thank you for the advice! You are a very wise person Corboy! I wish that I could afford a lawyer but right now we are just staying afloat. I really don't like revealing that on this post but I would have a lawyer by now if I could. I am just trying to go with my gut feelings on alot of it. The boss told my husband that Harvard endorses Landmark. I laughed my arse off! Please tell me that can not be true! I told my husband that maybe one person that went to Harvard probably endorses it... but Harvard as a whole can not endorse the Landmark! I said that it is probably his wife who probably went to Harvard ( she is a Doctor) I probably have said too much there... oh well!

He did meet with him & offered his job back if he wanted to be a worker, but he can not go into management without the Landmark. That just does not seem right. I was filling out some papers for the EEOC (I know they can't help, but I wanted to fill them out anyway) but one of the questions ask If you feel you were discriminated against because of your disability.. I said yes becasue the Landmark does not suggest you take the course if you have Bi-Polor & on medication. I am pretty sure that the enrollment form for the local community college does not have that warning on the enrollment form!

Putting the "Harvard Study" In Perspective

From the Boston Globe:

[www.culteducation.com]

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A Harvard Forum For Self-Promotion?
Boston Globe/November 6, 1998
By Alex Beam

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The Forum, formally known as the Landmark Education Corp., has enjoyed considerable success with the self-actualization crowd, and with the Cambridge intelligentsia. That success is now chronicled in an HBS case study so sycophantic that Landmark has been using it -- improperly, Harvard says -- as a promotional tool.

The document, originally written for classroom discussion, is also sold to the public. Last revised in April, it reads like a 22-page advertisement for Landmark's "breakthrough in paradigm thinking."

Authored by professor Karen Hopper Wruck, the case breathlessly quotes Forum executives who compare their work to that of Galileo and Socrates (!). The study also quotes from a Forum-sponsored Daniel Yankelovich survey of graduates. Surprise! All six veterans of the Forum's weekend training quoted by Wruck loved it!

and

Quote

In her defense, Wruck told me: "I understood that it was a controversial company, but I wanted to study a company that directly addressed issues around human behavior. A case study is a pedagogical vehicle, not a position paper or an endorsement." Harvard has affixed an unprecedented disclaimer ("Please be aware that . . . the school does not endorse this company or any other company") to the document.

Mark Kamin, a Landmark spokesman, said his company ordered several thousand copies of the document after it was published.

He adds that Landmark signed an agreement with Harvard not to use the case for promotional purposes, "and we've endeavored to keep that agreement."

When I told him that a recent seminar attendee said the case was being used to puff Landmark, Kamin said, "I can't guarantee that people who led seminars didn't say, 'Hey, there's this case study.' "

From a more recent article which can be read here:

Quote


From a longer article which can be read in full here:


[www.culteducation.com]

To validate Landmark commercially, there is the "Harvard study". My copy has on it the Harvard seal (Veritas ["Truth"]), the heading "Harvard Business School", a copyright attribution to The President and Fellows of Harvard College in one footnote, and a disclaimer in another: Harvard doesn't actually endorse this document. No wonder: it was only a business case study for classroom use.

Harvard forbids the promotional use of these studies. This is to prevent professors from purveying advertising in Harvard's name.

Note: This next article describes more LEC pressure in the work place. It refers to an attempt by LEC to sue RR.com out of existence. This efford did not succeed.

Quote

"(One of LEC's attorneys) provided a copy of a Harvard Business School report from 1998 that gave Landmark passing grades. "

and:

Ross' pro bono lawyer is Peter Skolnick, a renowned intellectual property and First Amendment lawyer. His clients include David Chase, creator of "The Sopranos," and the estate of Vladimir Nabokov, author of "Lolita."

Skolnick said Landmark is now trying to withdraw the lawsuit -- but he's fighting on behalf of Ross to keep it alive. Skolnick wants to pursue discovery he believes will confirm that Landmark threatens lawsuits against individuals and news organizations that are critical of Landmark. These are typically settled, Skolnick said, in return for a statement by the defendant backing off from criticisms.

"We asked the court to give us discovery to show that the case [against Ross] was not brought in good faith," he said.

Schreiber said in response that Skolnick "knows or should know" that it is not the practice of Landmark to bring bad-faith lawsuits to harass critics or unfriendly journalists. He declined comment on whether Landmark was trying to withdraw the lawsuit against Ross, saying that it is matter of pending litigation.

The case is being heard by U.S. District Judge John C. Lifland in Newark, N.J.

Skolnick said he hopes the court will place conditions on any withdrawal of the lawsuit against Ross by Landmark that will make it difficult for it to bring these types of lawsuits in the future.

[www.culteducation.com]

As you can see, RR.com and its message board are still here, three years later.

Note: 'a Harvard Business School report' is NOT THE SAME AS A DOUBLE BLIND RESEARCH STUDY.

And it is not the same as a double blind research study funded by an independent source with no vested interest in proving or disproving LEC's efficacy. (double blind is where participants are randomly assigned to different interventions, without the researchers knowing--this is to prevent bias)

Any time someone says 'we have a study' 1) find out who paid for it and two find out if it really was done according to scientific research protocol, rather than being a case study for classroom use.

A case study intended for classroom use, even at a top ten business school is not the same thing as something funded by an independent reseach grant, according to double blind protocol.

Referring to 'the Harvard Study' doesnt tell the average person whether it was a position paper intended for use within Harvard's Business school, or was done by scientists who submitted this for review by a human subjects committee before doing that study at the Harvard U medical center, or its psychology department.

Another thing to do is assess how much independent research was done how recent those studies are.

And...who funded them. And..whether they are merely case studies, or conducted according to double blind protocol.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/31/2008 10:09PM by corboy.

For further research, here is a URL from alt.fan.landmark, posted
to that listserve in mid-July of this year.

[groups.google.com];

Well it's been a month since this mess has started. Things have changed so much for the worse! I am quite embarresed to say that my husband got his job back & to keep it he was conned into going to the 3 day Landmark weekend thing. He is there now. Tonight is the last night. We have been fighting since he told me he was going to go a week or two ago. I have been a wreck this whole weekend. I can not believe he went to this. I really thought that we had a stronger marriage. He went even though I was dead set against it. I have not stopped crying all weekend long. He has called me on his breaks, but they always end up in a fight & he hangs up on me when I tell him I will not go on Tueday. I should work things different but I am just so angry & scared for him & us right now. I know that anger stems from fear & I am so scared right now. I know this is never going to end. He says that Tuesday will be the end of it, but I am having a real hard time believing it! I am trying to have faith in God and pray for him but my faith has been kind of weak lately. I can not even think straight right now... My head feels like it is going to explode! I am just rambling on. I am probably not even making sense. I am tired & haven't eaten since friday. I just made some soup & it has been sitting on the table for 1/2 hour. I haven't told my family he went so I have pretty much been sitting home crying all weekend long. I should of written on here sooner, but I isolated when I am feeling down. I can not believe that my husband has been braINwashed. I can not believe this is happening. Well I am going to go try and eat my soup. If anyone has any words of encouragement I can sure use them. I don't know what to say or do when he gets home tonight. I think that I need to keep my mouth shut tonight because I have been flipping a lid everytime he calls. I start the conversation calm & then just a few minutes into it I lose it. well bye for now... thank you for listening. I feel a little better getting this off my chest.

Makeup

I am sorry that I did not write sooner. I have been so tired from fighting with him about going to the Landmark & like I said in my earlier post... I isolate when things get bad. I am so naive to think that he would just go & it would be the end of it after this weekend to keep his job & he promised him a raise too. The damn almighty dollar! I just read that one of the things they say at the landmark is that after going to the Landmark most people will make 30% more money & what do you know I figured out his raise his boss promised after going this weekend & what do you know it figures to be 30% Jeez.... I hope that he can see thru this, but I am afraid that he has been brainwashed already. Thanks for letting me ramble on again....

Makeup

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Makeup
I am sorry that I did not write sooner. I have been so tired from fighting with him about going to the Landmark & like I said in my earlier post... I isolate when things get bad. I am so naive to think that he would just go & it would be the end of it after this weekend to keep his job & he promised him a raise too. The damn almighty dollar! I just read that one of the things they say at the landmark is that after going to the Landmark most people will make 30% more money & what do you know I figured out his raise his boss promised after going this weekend & what do you know it figures to be 30% Jeez.... I hope that he can see thru this, but I am afraid that he has been brainwashed already. Thanks for letting me ramble on again....

Makeup

If your husband is truly compromised, and has been fully 'indoctrinated', you will be the next target, and you will be attacked with guilt trips and a whole lot of BS. Your husband will likely believe that you are the cause for any problems you two may have and will insist you take the forum as well, to make things right, and to get you two on the same page...the Lekkie page. I am so sorry for the hell you've gone through in the past weekend. I'm sorry that Landmark has infiltrated your life and your home, and I am so sorry that they will work hard to destroy your marriage.

All I can say is be wise in your choice of words with your husband, be twice as quick and articulate in your responses to him as he raves about his forum, and don't be caught off guard by his new 'logic' for the next few weeks. When he gives you all the great reasons in the world that you should take the forum too, just understand and know that he is operating out of a covertly induced 'high', a high induced by some very effective but dangerous thought reform techniques that even the forum leader likely doesn't fully understand. The inevitable thing is that he will eventually have to come down to earth. How he 'lands' is anybody's guess, but he will have to return to reality. The potential problem there is that he may reject the reality, and choose to try to re-live or return to the emotional experience he had at the forum. Remember, it is like a drug, and it can be addictive.

You've made yourself aware of this beast, and that puts you in a great position. IMO, there's nothing to do right now but to observe, and quietly assess the damage his forum has caused. You will have to wait and see what you are faced with, as far as problems go. Maybe he will be one of the lucky ones and snap out of it in a few days thinking to himself, 'what the hell was that all about!'

Hi Makeup,

As well as the above, make sure that you yourself are eating (even if you don't feel up to it) and sleeping properly. This gives you the best starting point to work from and will make a difference to yourself. It's also a very healthy boundary/practice to make sure that you definitely look after yourself first.

John

PS. Hang in there!

Some things to watch out for here:

-- While graduates love to claim there are no victims, they love love to call others victims and then like to also try and victimize folks. So, don't act like a victim about this, and if he starts trying to victimize you, don't take his shit, but call him on it.

-- Watch your words and try not to actively PICK a fight with him. But feel free to stand up for yourself if he picks one on you. Try to also simply walk away from some of them.

-- If he tries to enroll you in the training incessantly, remind him he doesn't need the agreement of others, including you, about the value he gets from it, if it was truly valuable for him.

-- When he starts spouting his new jargon incessantly, remind him that the rest of the world doesn't talk like that, nor do they define old words in new ways like that. His new language may be fine for talking with his new 'in crowd' but if he wants to continue making headway with others (including you) in this world, he needs to keep his skills up in talking the way the rest of the English speaking world does. Also remind him that you're more interested in folks understanding you than in learning his new Landmarkspeak.

-- After he comes down from his faux-hypomania, remind him gently whenever he starts acting manic or self-absorbed. The training exacerbates these behaviors.