Re: Kids and Landmark?
Date: May 27, 2008 04:19AM
...And just so you know, "Lekkie," we've been down that dismal path before. It's more than thirty years old and fairly well trod by now.
Here's "Guy," a few years back, being nice to an intellectually challenged newish Landmark enthusiast on alt.fan.landmark:
Aug 20 2002, 4:12 am
Newsgroups: alt.fan.landmark
From: Guy <guyfaw...@parlia.com>
John,
I'll write between the lines so that the responses and statements correspond accurately.
I find that this method illustrates and makes clear what we will or will not respond to without any miscommunication.
John wrote:
> Guy,
> Thanks for pointing out the word belief. You are right that is
> usually a religious-oriented word (along with sin). I use that word
> not in the correct sense. How about this - I am confident in
> Landmark's ability to provide me with worthy courses. Yes, at times
> they may use techniques that appear heavy-handed and over the top.
You're welcome. Perhaps not in the correct sense but invariably in the appropriate sense. By virtue of the methodology used by LEC, belief
becomes the underlying operating principle. Statements otherwise do not negate the function. Heavy-handed and over the top are not phrases
that I use in reference to LEC, those are your words. I use hypnosis and mind control techniques. I would be interested in what your relevant
definitions are of heavy-handed and over the top.<not a rhetorical question>
> And yes, I realize the fallacy of using analogies. We so easily want
> to do it. That though is one of the more effective techniques to use
> for description when you are trying to explain something to another
> person that they have not experienced, seen, touched, etc. Even
> looking up words in a dictionary is comparison in that they are using
> other words you know to describe words.
Good, so don't use them. Analogous referrals in regards to LEC will not turn a good leaf.
> Everything (and person) is unique. Landmark is unique. Unique though
> doesn't equal special. That is a personal point of view.
That is not what we said in LEC though. At LEC we are taught that all human beings are essentially the same machine and that we all have
"rackets" and "winning formula's. Hardly a view that corresponds to our uniqueness. Matter of fact it's LEC's understanding of human
mechanization's that gives them the ability to maintain consistent recruitment numbers.
Unique does not equal special....hmmmm....where did that come from?
Landmark is unique is hardly an accurate portrayal considering that you first used argument by analogy to describe it's recruitment function.
With a better grasp of techniques and methods you would see that LEC is hardly unique at all with other organizations using the same ways to
bring people in. Ever had the JW's or the Mormons come to your door?
Ah yes...the "personal point of view" cut them off at the knees line.
Nice try.
Here is where you go undermining me instead of dealing the facts. Argument by defamation. Voila!
I've heard it and used it all before when I worked there John.
It's an inclusive logical loop to silence criticism. "a personal point of view illustrates a position. A position has a right and a wrong to
it, therefore if you use a point of view, you are making them wrong and you right...and what does that leave you with...no possibility"
And of course no one wants to be "no possibility".
I have a question for you...and I wonder if you can answer it with a yes...are you making me wrong?
> Your point of view about Landmark changed. You went to believing that
> they were wholeheartedly in the business of transformation to
> believeing it was mass hypnosis designed to separate people from their
> money and leave them believing transformation happened. Both of your
> point of views were correct, because that is your point of view -- but
> it does not equal the truth. You now post on here looking for
> agreement with your point of view. I post on here looking for
> agreement for my point of view. It is just the way it is.
Firstly, I'm not going down that tunnel with you. Your tunnel not mine. The design of which is to undermine your ability to distinguish
reality.
I hope you're not living your life by that woo woo mysticism.
Your point of view of a moving vehicle running you over will correct any illusions you may have about perceptions of reality.
What I knew about what I was involved with in regards to LEC, altered by time and experience.
You assert that I look for agreement on my "point of view". The only time I sought agreement here was when I asked if anyone else thought that
someone was insulting me personally and responded with "if i think it was an insult it is "or maybe a quip is just a quip". He was pulling
that pov crap that lacks any integrity.
I do not need agreement for facts.
That is the way it is.
I'm just telling you what we did and they continue to do.
If you don't like it, there is nothing I can do about it.
What you do with the information I give you, I have no control over.
The ball is in your court.
> Best to you Guy. It appears that you got a lot more about Landmark
> than you might have been aware. And it is possible that you may come
> back in the Landmark fold. I am sure when you were fully engrossed in
> Landmark you didn't think you would be on the opposite side as well.
Thank John and best to you too.
I don't get the next sentence. I will tell you that I know the their shit pretty darn well. So don't pull their crap on me again.
I am being nice to you, just so you know. So if you would like to wrestle "mind virus" style, you will get hurt because I was trained to lever
grads like you and people who'd never done it before. Grads and staff are much easier to lever. At least that is what the statistics reveal.
They're already primed for pumping.
I know what hooks you. I'm not bragging or threatening you<honest>. I just know how it works and I'm not interested in twisting your brain any
further than they've already done. I'd rather just let you know what is going on and you figure out the rest. Really, really, really. :-)
Back in the fold...yeesh!
No, that will not happen, there are orders with "shoot to kill" in them. ;-) In the immortal words from Jack Nicholson"s character in Terms of
Endearment: "I'd rather stick pins in my eyes".
Once I realized what was going on there was no way I'd allow my integrity to be compromised any further.
> And it is fine that your point of view changes. Because you are only
> standing in the same spot in the same time for that moment. So
> fleeting.
John, stay out of that pov paradigm. There is no cheese down that tunnel. It demeans whomever you're communicating with and it doesn't further
dialogue. It's a minor technique to avoid domination. That is what you are dealing with in communicating with me. You don't want to be
dominated by me and what I have to say.
You have a "point of view" and I have facts. I know it sucks, but that is just the way it is.
There will be little in our conversation for you if you continue to avoid domination. I know that that is one of the wonderful "gifts" of
LECspeak.
Everyone gets some clever words to avoid being dominated and dominate others. That's enrollment!
But really John, spending energy avoiding domination only serves to point to the loci of your current orientation.
You may just want to try on that I know what I'm talking about and glean the gold from my lips.
By making me wrong and avoiding domination you only further entrench yourself into your position.
Take some time to look at what you are resisting when it comes to what I'm saying about LEC.
I know that all of us who participated had something at stake at keeping the truth about LEC unspoken. For one thing they tied it
linguistically to our thoughts by having us repeat "what we got out of the Forum" over and over. If anything good happened after the forum it
was because of the forum. If anything bad happened after the forum it was you "running a racket", doing one of your "winning formula's",
"making something mean something", or "who you are managing the existence of yourself as, is the space of no possibility".
Getting the truth about what LEC did to us, does not take away any of the good things that happened for us. It really just allows us to own it
for ourselves.
Afterall, do you want to spend any more of your life without owning any of the good stuff about who you are and what you do?
Do you really want to spend any more time repeating to family and stranger's: "what I got out of the forum was..."?
I don't think that that is really what you want.
You already were the good person you are.
But there you have it John. So...
Come on out and play.
Dancing in Elegance
Guy