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johnc925
Greetings,
I'm a new graduate to the second level (Realize) program.
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I've read all of these posts and also many on LGATs prior to choosing to experience the training myself.
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I've also re-read these and other posts on similar programs. The feedback I read on LGATs is that they are fairly nonconclusive. There does appear to be inidication of some positives and negatives aren't indicated: [en.wikipedia.org]. There are also many of these programs out there: [www.geocities.com]
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My intent is not to advocate or dissuade interested parties in these type of trainings, simply to share experiences. I made my own choice to attend and I am responsible for that choice. I find it extremely important for me to remain in tune with my logical faculties through any training, be it professional, religious or other.
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Having been through the first 2 levels, it has given me pause to realize there are more important things in life that I overlook. I used to be very trusting in my earlier years and have found myself becoming hardened and skeptical of almost everything I do. I remain in touch with my sensibilities and realize that NO ONE on this planet has all of the answers, it's up to me to seek and learn.
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One thing that I did get very early in the process is that it is a very self supporting organization and that personal referrals are truly the best way to find people interested. I do that in my own business, when asking my clients for referrals. I don't find anything ethically wrong with this. I've met some great people here, some new timers, some old timers. There are some who go through the program and simply get on with their lives, taking the education given and making it part of their daily thought processes. Others want to give back to what they've learned and help coach others in acts of giving. I still don't find anything ethically wrong with that, and a human level find it very expressive and selfless.
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I do find it hard to believe that someone could keep themselves motivated as much as they are, if they were truly being deceptive.
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Though I do recall the Jim Jones horror. The work in the workshop is lenghty, and to me, would be tiresome after years of doing the same thing, if there wasn't something gratifying about it. I am, to a fault, a humanitarian and do believe in the good of people, which is what struck me as positive in my experience. Doing the math, I also don't see a huge bankroll going through this place.
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I'm very open to respectful, logical debate for anyone interested, and I'm more than happy to respond. I will offer and insist on mutual respect during any dialogue.
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I will commit to this forum that as I move towards the next level, my experience starts to change or waiver, I will comment back again.
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elenaQuote
johnc925
Greetings,
I'm a new graduate to the second level (Realize) program.
Do you personally call yourself "graduate" or are you accepting the corporation's label and manipulative form of implied status elevation? Do you think people outside the group would or might call you "graduate" in the sense of "college graduate" or "high school graduate" or even "graduate of the school of hard knocks?"Quote
I've read all of these posts and also many on LGATs prior to choosing to experience the training myself.
I am curious to know if you "choose to experience" hypnosis and/or self-hypnosis techniques with covert suggestions and emotional manipulations that may have been done outside your direct awareness? Also, do they refer to their program(ming) as "training?" If so, what is it that you have been "trained" to do? Is it something specific, as in most training programs, or is it something vague and non-descript as learning to "live a life you love?"Quote
I've also re-read these and other posts on similar programs. The feedback I read on LGATs is that they are fairly nonconclusive. There does appear to be inidication of some positives and negatives aren't indicated: [en.wikipedia.org]. There are also many of these programs out there: [www.geocities.com]
It is difficult to figure out what you are saying here. If English is your mother tongue, you might consider a remedial course?
The list you've linked is an interesting one. From a quick perusal, they are all descendants of Mind Dynamics, and, by proxy, est, Lifespring, etc. Are you aware of these common origins? Do you know anything about Mind Dynamics (and its evil twin Leadership Dynamics)?Quote
My intent is not to advocate or dissuade interested parties in these type of trainings, simply to share experiences. I made my own choice to attend and I am responsible for that choice. I find it extremely important for me to remain in tune with my logical faculties through any training, be it professional, religious or other.
Are you aware of the fact that the "share," "choice," and "responsibility" memes are implanted during the "programming?" These trainings have had decades to figure out ways to fly under the radar of your "logical faculties."Quote
Having been through the first 2 levels, it has given me pause to realize there are more important things in life that I overlook. I used to be very trusting in my earlier years and have found myself becoming hardened and skeptical of almost everything I do. I remain in touch with my sensibilities and realize that NO ONE on this planet has all of the answers, it's up to me to seek and learn.
What important things do you (habitually?) overlook?
Was there some point when you believed that ONE person on this planet had "all of the answers?"Quote
One thing that I did get very early in the process is that it is a very self supporting organization and that personal referrals are truly the best way to find people interested. I do that in my own business, when asking my clients for referrals. I don't find anything ethically wrong with this. I've met some great people here, some new timers, some old timers. There are some who go through the program and simply get on with their lives, taking the education given and making it part of their daily thought processes. Others want to give back to what they've learned and help coach others in acts of giving. I still don't find anything ethically wrong with that, and a human level find it very expressive and selfless.
Many others find this extremely manipulative and exploitive of the more trusting and generous of the flock. (It would creep me out if my doctor, dentist, accountant, hairdresser, plumber, or auto-mechanic asked me repeatedly to refer other customers or implied that my future treatment/success/prospects depended somehow on my willingness and performance of this task.)Quote
I do find it hard to believe that someone could keep themselves motivated as much as they are, if they were truly being deceptive.
Money's a big motivator.Quote
Though I do recall the Jim Jones horror. The work in the workshop is lenghty, and to me, would be tiresome after years of doing the same thing, if there wasn't something gratifying about it. I am, to a fault, a humanitarian and do believe in the good of people, which is what struck me as positive in my experience. Doing the math, I also don't see a huge bankroll going through this place.
Most of the "second tier" or "trainers" or "facilitators" in these groups are themselves manipulated into believing that they too will someday be at the top of the pyramid.Quote
I'm very open to respectful, logical debate for anyone interested, and I'm more than happy to respond. I will offer and insist on mutual respect during any dialogue.
It's not your call. I have no respect for the opinion of anyone who affiliates him or herself with one of these "programs," parrots their jargon and their "talking points," insists that he is in full possession of his own mind after attending and proceeds to defend and to praise the group, and then turns a blind eye to the litany of complaints and long list of casualties, the horror stories of exploitation and abuse, and the obvious predatory actions of these psycho-scammers. Your opinion is not your own, you see. It sounds like any other of thousands of such "testimonials" that thousands of "graduates" such as yourself churn out at an astonishing rate. They all sound so dishearteningly similar. They must excise some portion of the imagination when they implant this stuff in their followers' minds. It's not your fault, however. You've been subjected to a sophisticated program of covert influence and manipulation.Quote
I will commit to this forum that as I move towards the next level, my experience starts to change or waiver, I will comment back again.
It is all about "the next level," you see. That's how they keep you paying. The likelihood of your ever "getting there" is pretty slim unless you start your own cult, however. Ask any scientologist who has become disillusioned.
Ellen
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johnc925
I will commit to this forum that as I move towards the next level, my experience starts to change or waiver, I will comment back again.
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corboy
Concord, California is in Eastern Contra Costa County.
That, friends, is one of the areas that has been especially hard hit by the subprime mortgage fiasco.
Two years ago, a friend of mine who rides with his bicycle club in that area said he was horror stricken by the whopping number of foreclosure signs on properties all over that area.
As if having an LGAT in the area is not already bad enough...