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Hope
I wrote....."The ad for The Mankind Project was on Craigslist. I posted a reply warning[b:ffec02f8fc][i:ffec02f8fc] people interested to ask lots of questions[/i:ffec02f8fc][/b:ffec02f8fc], [i:ffec02f8fc][b:ffec02f8fc]to be cautious as the seminar agenda sounded a lot of like Landmark. [/b:ffec02f8fc][/i:ffec02f8fc]"
Frank - can ya read???? Why be defensive about telling people to ask lots of questions. I've done the Forum, the founders of MKP are esties, so it is highly likely that MKP has it's foundations in est\Landmark. If people have gotten burned in est or LEC, there is a good possibility MKP is more of the same. Their "technology" is so apparent, and their goal for taking back masculinity pretty much says it's, again, a one size fits all diagnosis for all attendees.
Sorry 'Hope', I do agree with you, people should always ask questions. I was ONLY addressing this comment:
"There were just some words that jumped off the page - integrity, authenticity and commitment. And the weekend seems to be structured like Landmark\est. The info talks about doing shadow work in the weekend seminar. "
It seems that since I quoted your whole post my response came across as a little too broad. It's the 'I heard words like...' that is an indicator to me that maybe someone is drawing a conclusion based on a generality.
When we assign pre-defined 'meanings' to groups of words makes them so that they can't be used by ANYONE to convey some different concept or mood. That is how prejudice and bigotry is formed. I"m not saying that is YOU, it's just an observation.
I am not here to 'defend' MKP, far from it. I observed that quite a few people get positive experiences from the weekends and pretty much NEVER go to the 'I-Groups' afterwards because they don't really need the group. It seems to me that a group that has SOME MEASURE of positives shouldn't be attacked at 100% 'bad'.
Yet, that seems to be what is done here. I thought I would attempt to put some balance here. Obviously got off on the wrong foot! :oops:
So wouldn't it be more 'balanced' to discuss the things that they are doing that you don't like, or you think are 'harmful' and ALSO point out that there are many positives that result from the organization? Then people can make up their own mind?
I personally didn't see any of the 'extreme' things I've heard mentioned and the many people who have posted saying their 'sane friend' who suggested they go said that it was great for their attitude must be seeing SOMETHING GOOD, right? Otherwise why would so many people like myself who didn't go to 're-integration' and DO NOT go to I-Groups and have no more involvement after the weekend suggest it to others?
I went about 7 months ago and I met many men at the weekend who are intelligent, educated and as cynical as I am. They were pretty much with me when it came to poking fun at some of the things that were said or done, they do seem a bit silly to us at the time. Yet ALL of them felt that they had made a connection with themselves that was missing for a long time during the weekend.
We weren't starved, humiliated coerced or sleep deprived. We ate alot of granola and apples and yes we had to take a cold shower one morning.
All I've seen on the net are either 'MKP is 'great' groups OR 'MKP is evil groups'. MKP is going to BRAINWASH him! run away! run away! Then I see hysterical responses from women who are terrified their men are running off to become another 'Jim Jones' fanatic. How does that help anybody? It makes the people who went and had a good experience feel bad and the nervous women whose men went feel terrified they will lose them.
Is it not possible to discuss the GOOD and the BAD?
Maybe by telling all sides and all views men can make an informed decision? There must be SOMETHING GOOD that those of you who had a man go to MKP, or who DID go to MKP got from it that was POSITIVE. Just one thing?
Here, I'll start:
I've already said some positives that I got from the group. I'll agree with some of the comments that yes, it is a little bit 'EST' like and also that their 'warriors journey' is something that would probably be better done with a licensed counselor or psychiatrist available for the few men who were a little too fragile to deal with it. Whether that makes them 'bad' or 'evil' is questionable. For me, to be 'bad' means they deliberatly set out to control people, to take over their lives. Neither I nor the several other guys I know saw that. It was JUST a weird but interesting weekend retreat. What happens with you and the group AFTER the retreat is the choice of the individual. Most people I knew didn't even show up for the 'graduation'. It wasn't that exciting.
Their WAS a licensed psychiatrist at my retreat who was a participant and we had a short talk about the whole weekend at the final dinner. His observation was that there were some instances where more progress was made with some mens issues there than he could have made in months of counseling with him. He felt that a weekend like that followed by good counseling could make quite a difference for many people. That was HIS opinion.
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glam
From his consistent misspellings and obvious use of language patterns/same old lame defenses/ad hominems, I'd make an educated guess that it's our old friend Tex/Conway/Leibnitz/PaulKeith/ConcernedSister/LoveBunny/Etc. again. Guess he's bored over at AFL, since so many of us ignore him now. Can't get the rise out of us he once did.
Sorry Glam, I'm just frank. I was looking for more information on what else MKP might be doing and I found this website and some others. I was amazed at the level of anger fear and vitriol being experessed toward the group AS A WHOLE and no room for anyone who had a positive experience to give their opinion without being shouted down.
I felt that it would be worthwhile to post that there are actually those who DID have a positive experience and didn't get 'brainwashed' and we don't put the group on a pedestal. For me anyway, the experience was worthwhile.
I wrote my posts rather quickly and didn't take the time to do all my spell checking. Thanks for pointing that out, I'll try to do better. I wouldn't want to be mistaken for someone you don't like.
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As far as the secretiveness that is questioned a lot, well, if I had heard what was going to happen ahead of time the I probably would have said "oh, this is sooo stupid, you gotta be joking? I won't do THAT!" which is pretty much what anyone would say. If that's the case then there has to be some 'secretiveness' or most men wouldn't go, and would not get the opportunity to POSSIBLY benefit from the experience.
College fraternities and FreeeMasons do NOT tell people what their rituals are either. Yet MKP is demonized for their actions.
The name of this forum is "Cult education forum - Large group awareness training, Human Potential Seminars". So far what I have seen in these MKP threads is 'MKP Bashing' or 'education of the negatives', not real education. MKP doesn't qualify as a 'cult' as defined by the dictionary or any other reasonably qualified source like the Wikipedia - [
en.wikipedia.org] because they do not ask you to worship them or their ideal. Nor do they ask you to gve up your life or your identity.
They may be weird, there may be some people who take them a little to seriously, there may be some leadership issues that we don't agree with. But 'evil' and 'cult' are not words I would use to describe them.
If that were the definition, then our government, the leftists, and the neo-cons would be 'cults'. (actually, sometimes I think they are.)
Looking forward to real discussion about MKP.
thanks
frank