Hi Saneagain I will reply by personal message.

Hi,

I started attending the 5 day Turning Point workshop three days ago at the Insight Training Centre in Kyalami - now conducted by some nutter called Royee (who is apparently Baruch Banai's son) adn it was the worst three days of my life. He screamed at us for a full three days for minimum 8hours each day ending in the morning just before 3am. I was sitting there watching people having all these "experiences" that they were hoping were going to lead them to a "breakthrough beyond thoughts and feelings".

We were given these "rules" that we were not to break and he was generally very rude, disrespectful and we sat there being traumatised and humiliated day after day because his methodology is "break'em down so you can build them up". I went back Day 2 and Day Three because I thought I needed to be open and not skeptical and cynical which could be blocking my breakthrough. The last straw came on Day 3 where I am convinced he just completely lost it, I guess as part of the break'em down routine and literally went barbaric on the group; swearing and screaming for the better part of the session and using people's personal life experiences to humiliate them. I asked for my money back but was told I could only do so after having attended the full 5days. I went on the internet to do some research (after feeling stupid for not having done so before) and this is when I stumbled upon this site. I tried to print out some of the contents relating to "Doctor" Baruch Banai so I could tell others and this morning I talked to some of them, but most were too far gone to listen.

I paid R6000 to have this experience and while I doubt very much that I will get my money back, I feel that I cannot just simply do nothing as these "workshops" are very well packaged for people who are trying to improve their lives and too many people will fall into this trap. I went there partly because I saw my strong headedness as a problem, and it ended up saving me this time. I am not sure what impact this will have on my psychology, but I did not have any weird experiences while I was there, I need advice in terms of what legal recourse I can take regardless. I will also be talking to some consumer protection orgs to see what can be done for me, given that the condition for getting the money was that I would have to have attended the full 5 days. I feel really bad about the people I left there, after having read about the experiences of others, but at least I gave them the choice and they made a decision to not consider it.

Hi mangwanya

You could try demanding your money back, that might work. Otherwise threaten to go to the media. These LGATs are generally afraid of media attention.

Well done for leaving the seminar before the end, you're one of the lucky ones.

Good luck
David

Hi Brad

I just wanted to share my experience of Quest with you from this past weekend (31 October - 1 November 2009). It was recommended by my boss, that I attend the Quest seminar. He was very secretive about what the seminar was about, but I was intrigued because he promised that it would give me a whole new outlook and lease on life (which I could definitely do with at the moment given my very depressed and vulnerable state).

I attended the first day with equal feelings of anxiety and excitement. The course instructors Buster, and Nu (very strange names), soon had the 20 delegates (myself included) rapt with attention, and eating out of the palms of their hands. They spoke to us about learning to live in the here and now, and not concentrate on our past, or our futures. According to them we are all obsessed with looking good, and not living, so we should just accept what happens in our lives, because then we will have ultimate power. They also tell you that everything you have ever learnt, including your belief systems are bull shit (their exact words), and that we are in charge of everything that happens in the universe. It all sounded quite feasible at first, but then they made us do a process whereby the men had to strip down to their underwear and dress up as 7 year old girls (complete with brown wigs), and enact a song for the female delegates. Us females had to strip down to our underwear, and cover our bras and panties with black dustbin bags tied around ourselves horizontally, with pieces of leaves sticking out (we were supposed to do Tarzan/Jane impersonations), and perform our little skit in front of all the male delegates. I very firmly told them that I’m not doing it, but I was intimidated by the female assistants, and forced into doing it. I was shaking and sick the whole time I had to do the process. After it was done, they gave us a 15 minute break, and I ran into the bathroom to get dressed. I felt so ashamed and violated, that I broke down crying; it brought back all my past feelings of shame, and feeling dirty when I was sexually abused as a child. I phoned my friend and told him what happened, and asked him to come and fetch me. I handed in my name badge, and picked up my bag to go, but I was stopped by 3 of the assistants, and pressurized into staying for another hour because the whole seminar would get better for me according to them, and I’d make a break through. I was adamant that I wanted to leave, and told them that it’s disgusting and immoral to force people to parade around half naked in front of a bunch of strangers, and it goes against everything that I believe in. They tried to calm me down, but I told them that my mind is made up, and I’m leaving, as my friend is parked outside and waiting. They wouldn’t let me leave; they refused to open the gate for me to get out. I was in such a bad state, but since I couldn’t get out, I was forced to stay another hour and a half, until the seminar had finished for the night. According to my family my whole attitude had been changed for the worse, I was cold, distant, and hateful (all symptoms of brainwashing). The next morning I woke up, and I sent a sms to my Quest ‘buddy’, and let her know that I wouldn’t be attending anymore. Next thing I know, I get about 6 phone calls, and sms’s harassing me to come back and complete the course! They even phoned my boss and asked him to encourage me to come back. In the information brochure it said that should you wish to leave at any time during the seminar, you have free will to do so. What free will did I have? I was very clear about leaving because of their immoral processes, but they would not let me leave! I even got a call Monday morning from the Quest office administrator saying that I’m welcome to come back and complete the course in November, free of charge. Are they so hell bent on brainwashing people, that they’ll even allow me to do another course for free, even after I laid a formal complaint against them?
I called a meeting with my boss the Monday morning, and told him about my bad experience. He was very biased and told me that the Quest people are all very nice and helpful, and he doesn't believe that they forced me to stay. He also said that I over reacted to the Tarzan/Jane process because of my history of sexual abuse, and he sees nothing wrong with the process. He told me that it’s a pity I didn't stay for the last day, as that was the most important day, and I would have been 'transformed' as I'm only half the person I can be at the moment. My boss is deeply involved in the whole organization, and I believe that he is brainwashed into believing all their rubbish and defending them.
I sent out a mass email to all my contacts warning them about Quest, but I'd like to take this further and see justice served. I'm just worried that if my boss finds out about my intentions, that he'll get nasty and fire me. How can I take this further, without angering him, and losing my job?

Hi

I just wanted to share my experience of Quest with you from this past weekend (31 October - 1 November 2009). It was recommended by my boss, that I attend the Quest seminar. He was very secretive about what the seminar was about, but I was intrigued because he promised that it would give me a whole new outlook and lease on life (which I could definitely do with at the moment given my very depressed and vulnerable state).

I attended the first day with equal feelings of anxiety and excitement. The course instructors names were Buster, and Nu (very strange names), and they soon had the 20 delegates (myself included) rapt with attention, and eating out of the palms of their hands. They spoke to us about learning to live in the here and now, and not concentrate on our past, or our futures. According to them we are all obsessed with looking good, and not living, so we should just accept what happens in our lives, because then we will have ultimate power. They also tell you that everything you have ever learnt, including your belief systems are bull shit (their exact words), and that we are in charge of everything that happens in the universe. It all sounded quite feasible at first, but then they made us do a process whereby the men had to strip down to their underwear and dress up as 7 year old girls (complete with brown wigs), and enact a song for the female delegates. Us females had to strip down to our underwear, and cover our bras and panties with black dustbin bags tied around ourselves horizontally, with pieces of leaves sticking out (we were supposed to do Tarzan/Jane impersonations), and perform our little skit in front of all the male delegates. I very firmly told them that I’m not doing it, but I was intimidated by the female assistants, and forced into doing it. I was shaking and sick the whole time I had to do the process. After it was done, they gave us a 15 minute break, and I ran into the bathroom to get dressed. I felt so ashamed and violated, that I broke down crying; it brought back all my past feelings of shame, and feeling dirty when I was sexually abused as a child. I phoned my friend and told him what happened, and asked him to come and fetch me. I handed in my name badge, and picked up my bag to go, but I was stopped by 3 of the assistants, and pressurized into staying for another hour because the whole seminar would get better for me according to them, and I’d make a break through. I was adamant that I wanted to leave, and told them that it’s disgusting and immoral to force people to parade around half naked in front of a bunch of strangers, and it goes against everything that I believe in. They tried to calm me down, but I told them that my mind is made up, and I’m leaving, as my friend is parked outside and waiting. They wouldn’t let me leave; they refused to open the gate for me to get out. I was in such a bad state, but since I couldn’t get out, I was forced to stay another hour and a half, until the seminar had finished for the night. According to my family my whole attitude had been changed for the worse, I was cold, distant, and hateful (all symptoms of brainwashing). The next morning I woke up, and I sent a sms to my Quest ‘buddy’, and let her know that I wouldn’t be attending anymore. Next thing I know, I get about 6 phone calls, and sms’s harassing me to come back and complete the course! They even phoned my boss and asked him to encourage me to come back. In the information brochure it said that should you wish to leave at any time during the seminar, you have free will to do so. What free will did I have? I was very clear about leaving because of their immoral processes, but they would not let me leave! I even got a call Monday morning from the Quest office administrator saying that I’m welcome to come back and complete the course in November, free of charge. Are they so hell bent on brainwashing people, that they’ll even allow me to do another course for free, even after I laid a formal complaint against them?
I called a meeting with my boss the Monday morning, and told him about my bad experience. He was very biased and told me that the Quest people are all very nice and helpful, and he doesn't believe that they forced me to stay. He also said that I over reacted to the Tarzan/Jane process because of my history of sexual abuse, and he sees nothing wrong with the process. He told me that it’s a pity I didn't stay for the last day, as that was the most important day, and I would have been 'transformed' as I'm only half the person I can be at the moment. My boss is deeply involved in the whole organization, and I believe that he is brainwashed into believing all their rubbish and defending them.
I sent out a mass email to all my contacts warning them about Quest, but I'd like to take this further and see justice served. I'm just worried that if my boss finds out about my intentions, that he'll get nasty and fire me. How can I take this further, without angering him, and losing my job?

Hello, there. I'm new to this forum and extremely grateful for stumbling across it. The thing is, I kind off stumbled onto this site because of past experiences that kept on haunting me. I'm referring to the training done at the Insight Training Centre (center of light) in JHB, 2003. I did the whole nine yards- turning point, Joyspring and the Mile- including assisting on a number of occasions.

After reading the whole thread (yep, finished at 01h00 this morning), the emotions flooded me, wave after wave of memory that I tried so hard to get rid off. This compelled me to share my experiences with you- both to find some sanity and to help others who are struggling with the devastating aftermath of this brainwashing.

I was also sent to the Insight training center by a former manager. I'm sure his intentions were pure, but being actively involved in and recruiting for the insight training center, he was clearly as blind as I was. We (my wife and I)were sent there by my employer to improve our "relationship skills" and to generally learn to have more fulfillment and contentment with life. Of course we thought it was a great idea and were initially convinced of the "noble intentions" so beautifully portrayed at the presentation. Upon attending the first training session (turning point), I thought that there was so much to learn, all in the name of love, but my poor wife wanted to bail after day two of being severely traumatized by the abuse and humiliation. Here I am referring specifically to the games designed to break you down into believing that you are the scum of the earth, while still needing to appreciate the "truth" revealed to you for who they make you believe who you are! What hogwash! How sick! However, she stuck it out for the sake of our marriage (heck, what a woman!). I accepted what happened to me there, simply because I really did not want to face the truth of what my wife discovered very early in the program. After all, I would have been shown up for being so stupid to fall for their bag of tricks. So we both completed the turning point workshop. Boy of boy, little did I understand just how much damage was done to my beautiful wife. It has been 10 years since, and every year at more or less in same month that we did the turning point workshop, she re-experiences the trauma, abuse and humiliation of the crap that Baruch fed her! (basically that she was born a looser and will die a looser).

My parents told me to be careful, 'cause it sounded so much like a cult- not to reveal what happens there, etc. Being so freakin bullheaded, I could not, would not listen and of course, then had to go all the way, through Joyspring and the "Mile". I initially thought that I had wonderful experiences, and changed for the better. After all, my contract stated that "I am caring". Little did I know that I turned into an asshole supreme- and was everything but caring. We got to a stage where divorce became the only option, since I was hell-bent on fulfilling "my" life purpose"- and f&*ck the rest. By shear grace, we did not follow through on the divorce and today we are still happily married, and by even more grace, I managed to cut the ties with the insight training centre. We both still carry the scars of those events and I get really peeved when my dear wife re-experiences those lies. I also became very depressed and lost my joy of life, still trying to find ways of getting the old self back. I'm not sure how possible this is, but I have searched for an answer for years. My focus at work also suffered dismally immediately after the training. Strangest of all was that I did not care anymore (funny for being caring- hah ha). This struggle is not over by a long shot- for neither of us. I hope someone can point us in the right direction, as many days I am haunted by those experiences. After eventually getting some professional help, I realized that we do not have enough awareness of the effects of LGAT, and do not know how to deal with its effects. Only thing is, after all this time and effort in trying to find an answer to what happened to my, I was officially diagnosed as suffering from PTSD. Heck. Still don't know where to from here.

Hey Ryk,

So sorry to hear about what happened to you, I truly understand what you have been through. I can only describe a little about what I went through to recover. I managed to find a clinical psychologist who had trained as a hypnotherapist, she had a lot of insight into what the LGAT had done to my brain.

The symptoms of PTSD could be as a result of conflicting belief systems between your "old self" and your "new self". It took me a while to realise that some of the symptoms I was suffering from post LGAT were as a result of the two voices in my head arguing or disagreeing over most issues I was dealing with during my recovery. I kept on trying to behave in the way that the LGAT said I should in a desperate attempt at feeling sane again, the problem was that they were SO wrong! The old me was good enough all along.

Let me know if there is anything else I can do to assist you.

Exland

After reading some of the statements pertaining to why so few people have written about LGATS's and its effects on this forum, or any other for that matter- I guess my own experience explains it for me, at least. I have been grappling with the aftermath of our experiences way back since 2003, and only came across this site now. This forum opened my eyes in a big way. And incidently, I contacted a friend only yesterday who attended an LGAT with me in 2003. We started discussing the things that have been haunting us all along, and discovered that we are struggling with exactly the same issues (depression, rage, suicidal thoughts, isolation, fear, always having a feeling of being cornered and a need for flight), all of this ever since we cut our ties with the LGAT 7 years ago. It makes me think that some others may still be blissfully unaware of the actual changes that they underwent as a result. The one thing I can recall being said by the facilitator, is that if you turn your back on your "contract", life will get the better of you. I only realized through reading this thread and really getting my mind around it, that my troubles actually started after I renounced that ^$#%$^ out of my life.

Lastly, why do you think I stumbled across this site in Feb 2010? Precisely because after 7 years, I was still looking for answers to my ghosts.

Thanks Ex-Land, I appreciate your response. After years of searching for an answer (from spiritual leaders, to meditation, to therapists, etc.) I can only conclude that no-one (except people who actually experienced LGAT's) really knows anything about it or how to help people get through it. What you say makes a lot of sense. However, I am as furious as I am relieved for getting to some truth in this forum, for now I know for the first time what really happened and secondly, it peeves me to think of the wasted time to get to this point. I know that from here is a way forward, for the first freakin time in seven years.

Take care.

Hi Ryk,

The good news regarding these LGATs is that the topic is discussed in lectures and text books as part of psychology degrees nowadays. A good friend just graduated with honours in psychology from UNISA, she also helped me a bit to understand what had happened to me. The symptoms you mentioned are all linked to LGATs, in fact every single person who attends these courses/seminars will end up suffering from some of the symptoms you mentioned at some point down the line. The friend who introduced me to the LGAT also suffered problems but never actually linked the symptoms to the actual cause- which no doubt happens all the time- it's so frustrating!

Otherwise I suggest you keep talking to your wife and others who were involved in the LGAT. And another thing is pray, prayer helped me so much and still does to this day. I still suffer from nightmares and some anxiety, but I'm thankfully almost 100% mentally recovered.

I have actually heard of Insight Training Centre through others involved with them before. I have reported them to some authorities, but I'm still trying to get some support for this cause, the more complaints they receive, the more likely we are to get them removed from our country!

I have some contacts in high places here in SA who I think you should share your experiences with, we all need to be willing to help others who suffer at the hands of these evil LGATs.

Send me a private message if you want some more information.