Devil's Advocate:

Last warning.

Please don't attempt to continue with personal attacks.

You may respond to the substance of the statements made, buy your repeated speculation/claims regarding "integrity" and "paranoia" are personal attacks and not relevant to the subject of this thread.

Thank you for allowing me write my peace in this situation. My intentions here are only to convey reasoning and information about the people who have been called into question.

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="Devil's Advocate"
It is really something how "recovering addict" seems to be blaming Aysha for his own shortcomings. He lists his shortcomings in a manner which implies that since He has all of these shortcomings, Aysha was not a good teacher.

His list:
"She didn’t hold you accountable for what you did to yourself. She never tried to get you to see your part in creating your family’s troubles and reconcile with your parents, she never said you needed to quit using drugs because you were killing yourself and your future, she never said you had to stay in school because it’s harder to get a job or get into college with a GED than with a diploma, she never said you can’t have sex with every girl who’s willing because you are going to feel more and more worthless and miserable with each vulnerable human being you use for your own pleasure. She never helped you to move past your fears and social awkwardness to become a healthy adult. She never made you take responsibility for improving your own life, because she wanted you dependent on her forever. "


Can we all see the slip in reasoning? Simply because "recovering addict" has personal problems, it does not entail that Aysha was the horrible person this forum is making her out to be.

"Recovering Addict" was obviously very young when this happened; as part of love, young people need guidance, not a free rein to do what ever they feel like at the time. That is the role of every parent, real or "adopted". Real loving guidance produces healthy adults, not automatons dependent on their "leader". "Recovering Addict" needed loving guidance in order for him to begin to take responsibility for his situation. It would appear that he has now done that, with the guidance of some bona fide counselling. That took courage, given what he'd been through.

You say, DA, that you knew her for 3 years, meaning you did not know what she got up to in New Zealand; well, only from her side. There are too many people in New Zealand with very different views of Aysha Love from yours; people who are honest, intelligent and very aware of their place in this world. They differ from you in having been "swept up" by Aysha when they were extremely vulnerable. They are the ones who, thankfully, got away.

Thank you for giving us a view of Aysha that was not yet represented on this board.

Regarding Aysha's name changes, thank you for clearing that up also. I hold with the view that you can call yourself any name that rolls off the tongue if you so choose, provided that you are not using that name change to commit crimes or hide from crimes you have committed. However, when a person changes his or her name multiple times, AND moves around quite frequently, he or she should not be surprised when people begin to ask questions. Unfortunately, there are a lot of disreputable types in the world who change location and identity to avoid the law. It IS paranoid to assume that people who live a bohemian lifestyle are up to no good; it is NOT paranoid to ask questions about why someone is doing something that is often done for less than noble reasons. That's called good old horse sense.

Amen to what Kiwi said. If Recovering Addict were an adult and not a teenager at the time he said he knew Aysha, it would be a different story.

Regarding the second part of Recovering Addict's post: did Aysha have a sexual relationship with a teenage boy who had come to her for guidance? This, of course, is a he-said/she said problem, but it has not been addressed publically yet by anyone in her family or immediate circle.

Regardless of whether you hold a traditionalist or a more bohemian attitude toward sexuality and sexual relations, when a therapist, teacher, priest, rabbi, mentor, etc. has sexual relations with a child or teenager who has come to him or her for guidance, it is a grave wrong. It is a grave wrong not because sex is dirty or bad (it certainly isn't), but because it is an abuse of a young person's trust and vulnerabilities. When another adult knows that this type of relationship is going on and covers it up, that is also a grave wrong. (I am reminded of the sex abuse scandals that rocked the Catholic church in 2001.)

I did not know Aysha. She died shortly after I moved to New Orleans. When this scandal was coming to a head in New Zealand, I was in the fourth grade in Indiana. Therefore I cannot say one way or another what happened there or anywhere. I will reserve judgment until all the facts are in. If Aysha stood for truth and light, let everyone involved bring these allegations to the light of day and have faith that the truth will win out.

Here is copies of emails between myself and Sienna Lea, since Mr. Love would not answer the questions on the board.

Dear Nadine,

There are many wonderful alternative to traditional psychotheraphy and its way of treating the individual. Aysha was not nor never pre ported to be a licenced psychologist. Aysha called her work Creative Potential Development, for which a psychology license is not required. Many brilliant and wonderful helpers of humanity are working with alternative models. Aysha was a woman who really held the space for herself an others to create a new definition of what it means to be human, she was very brave and as a result many did not like her, hated her in fact and wanted to destroy her. She stood up to power and exposed its perversion and heartless cruelty. My book, Stealing the Moon is a journey into the shadow self. Perhaps if you read my book you would have a look at the depth and strength of seeing a new way of looking at all our old definitions and, what they have served.
Many of us live a life of denial and when we are confronted with the need to go deeper and face our pain and fear and find the way to become really ourselves, really present we run. Now many are taking this journey such as Beth Green of the Stream.org and Michael Brown who is touring the world with his book the Presence Procees. These are not doctors but people who are bringing real hope for humanity as Aysha did.

As far as changing names goes, as Aysha stripped the layers to reclaim her real self her real energy she felt the need to change what she was called to reflect that self-transformation. It is not uncommon in spiritual traditions to take a new name when you are connected with your authentic presence. She was in a state of spiritual evolution, deeply committed to that procees and her names reflected that journey. It was not to scam anyone.

I would be more than happy to answer any further questions. I hope this helps.

Sincerely,

Sienna Lea

Here is my reply, followed by the reply I got from Sienna Lea.

Ms. Lea,

I am not opposed to the practice of alternative medicine or psychotherapy, so long as the people involved represent themselves truthfully. I am also not opposed to people changing their names for personal or spiritual reasons. I am only opposed to it when there is fraud involved. Reading about what Aysha was accused of in New Zealand, though, makes me sick to my stomach, and my questions went ignored by Mr. Love.

Did Aysha use sleep, sensery, and food deprivation at Hopetown? If so, why? What was the treatment program?

Did Aysha at anytime, anywhere, have sex with anyone under her care?

Did she misuse goverment money in New Zeland or the United States?

Nadine Greene

And the reply from Sienna Lea:

Nadine,

After years of investigation Ms. Love was exhonorated of all wrong doing. Thats right a complete investigation was performed and all accusations were dropped. This should be sufficient to close this dialog. Sensory deprivation, is a technique used to deepen peoples connection with themselves not just misused by those who wish to torture people.

Aysha absolutely did not have sex with any of the children at hopetown. this is a lie they used and was proven wrong. You need not trouble yourself with becoming sick unless you want to fester in lies and false accusations. Because none of it happen or is true. I hope we are done with this conversation.

Notice that not all of my questions were answered.

1. The issue of food and sleep deprivation was not addressed.
2. A description of what the treatment program entailed was not addressed.
3. I asked if Aysha had sex anytime, anywhere, with anyone under her care--Ms. Lea only addressed Hopetown.
4. She did not address the issue of misuse of government money.

I forwarded the exchange to Kiwi. Here is what she had to say on the matter.

Hi Nadine

I notice Sienna Lea is slyly touting her book to you. Good grief! How transparent is she?

Well I don’t know when or where the “years of investigation” took place; they left NZ pretty soon after the documentary was broadcast. I certainly never heard of her being “exhonerated of all wrong doing”(sic :))) or indeed of having a “complete investigation” carried out. As far as I know, the only investigation that occurred was done by an investigative reporter for TVNZ in his damning doco. And that certainly did not clear her! If there was further investigation (perhaps in the USA?) the NZ public were never made aware of it. Who knows? Personally, I doubt it.

With regard to Ms Lea’s second paragraph:
Aysha most certainly DID have sex with several of the young men (boys) in her “care”. What “Recovering Addict” says I believe 100 % because it is exactly the same as I have been told by others who were being “treated” by Aysha. She would keep them in her bedroom for hours, sometimes days, in order for them to “learn how to make love to a woman”. My sources are completely reliable on that front. They were there at the time!

Aysha most certainly DID claim to be a psychologist; that was one of the first things she said to people, including me. She claimed to have a PhD from one U.S. university (which was investigated and discovered to be untrue…that university had never heard of her and had nobody by any of her names ever on their books). Several other colleges she claimed to have studied at also denied ever having her on their roles. She gave at least one “lecture” to registered doctors of psychiatry at a psychiatric hospital in Auckland, as she had claimed she was a qualified psychologist. This was the 80s and safe li’l ol’ NZ had not caught up with the fact that there were charlatans out in the big wide world. Aysha was not the first and certainly not the last to grace our shores.

To Devil’s Advocate:

I do not know Mr. Love personally. I was told by a fairly reliable source about the Love family’s drug use, the same source who told us where Kevin acquired Sienna Lea’s book. I later apologized for making that accusation on this forum as its based on hersay. In our search for Kevin, we contacted many, many people, some affliated with Aysha and Sienna, some not. Everyone who wasn’t connected with them conducted themselves in a professional and transparent manner and seemed genuinely concerned, although they had no information on his whereabouts. That was not the case when dealing with people connected to Aysha Love and Sienna Lea. We were given false lead after false lead and conflicting information. They were obviously hiding something, even though it wasn't Kevin, as we later found out.

If Aysha changed her name for purely poetic reasons, why didn’t Mr. Love come on this board immediately and say so? As to why I researched Aysha’s nam even though Kevin was home safe, it was to prevent others from having to go through the same situation. It’s the concept of pay it forward.

Kiwi may well have a personal gripe with Aysha. If her child was hurt while in Aysha’s group and because of Aysha's "treatment", that gripe is justified. So far, though her story checks out.

Nadine

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infoneeded2
To Devil’s Advocate:
As to why I researched Aysha’s nam even though Kevin was home safe, it was to prevent others from having to go through the same situation. It’s the concept of pay it forward.

Touché Nadine. My reason too.

Here is what I posted a few weeks ago on Ms. Lea's comment section on her website:

Comment:
flanneryfan on the cult board has graciously located a copy of the TVNZ report on Hopetown. She received an email form them with a detailed description of the films and an option to buy them on DVD direct from the station. she posted the email on the board, which you can read by clicking the Rick Ross forum link above.

This is what I found by reading the description of the program.

1. The neighbors had evidence that the street kids at Hopetown were running around at all hours, sniffing glue, stealing/vandalizing property, making threatening phone calls, and generally disturbing the peace.

2. Former residents and staff members of Hopetown made sworn and signed declarations that there was frequent drug use going on among the staff and that the street kids were being seriously mistreated.

3. A former staff member went on record as to the Hopetown director (Aysha) attempting to coerce staff members into unwanted sexual relationships.

4. The Hopetown director (Aysha) couldn’t produce documentation for her educational qualifications.

5. The Hopetown director (Aysha) used money from the government meant for staff salaries at Hopetown to fund an extended trip for herself and her children to the United States.

Notice that there was not one thing negative in this TV report about alternative psychotherapies or about “new ways of being human.” I’m sorry, Ms. Lea. I just don’t buy that people in New Zealand wanted to bring Aysha down because she stood up to the patriarchy.