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Intimacy issues with someone who attended LifeSpring
Posted by: anon0820 ()
Date: September 03, 2006 06:36PM

I never understood why there were intimacy issues with my now ex boyfriend. I am beginning to believe that after he attended Personal Dynamics - Lifespring in NY, that 'it' affected his sex drive.

He once said that he didn't know how to put this back into his life. Hmmmm. :?

Has anyone else had similar experiences? Please share.

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Intimacy issues with someone who attended LifeSpring
Posted by: elena ()
Date: September 03, 2006 10:22PM

Cults routinely disrupt a person's self-concept at the deepest level. They are more than happy to go mucking about in the psyche of anyone who shows up. That's how they get their hooks in. A person's sexuality is a fundamental aspect of his or her identity and also one fraught with anxieties, frustrations, and insecurities - fertile territory for those who would screw with someone's mind in order to gain advantage over him. (Scientology purportedly offers a "cure" for homosexuality.)

Historically, cults and religions have long had in mind to control and "harvest" the energy people might devote to themselves and use it in service to the leaders. Though they are all over the map, from the "free love" of the Children of God, to the repressed and restrained habits of many "fundamentalist" cults, it is rare that cult and religious leaders don't concern themselves with this behavior to an extreme degree. As Lifespring is essentially a copy-cat of est, I imagine they told him such things as "love and sex have nothing to do with each other" and "rabbits fuck." They also probably have something similar to the desensitizing "sex seminar" in which people are subjected to all sorts of perversions and bizarre behavior on film while listening to some lengthy medical-type lecture - enough to put anybody out of the mood, I expect.


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Intimacy issues with someone who attended LifeSpring
Posted by: anon0820 ()
Date: September 03, 2006 10:44PM

My ex told me on several occasions that he wanted to focus on the 'friendship' our relationship. He segmented friendship and intimacy into some warped beliefs. He said he wanted to focus on our friendship because if anything ever happened, we would still remain friends. Intimacy was something he had issues with.

NO WONDER! These mind control manipulators did a number on him and he bought into it.

He said he felt love and a deeper intimacy (and not sexual) with a couple of his woman friends than he did with me. Funny thing is that he couldn't figure out why.

[b:9a805e37ff]Aaaah[/b:9a805e37ff]...his friends are from the workshops. One of them referred him to Personal Dynamics. :evil: :( :cry:

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Intimacy issues with someone who attended LifeSpring
Posted by: Brad69 ()
Date: September 03, 2006 11:39PM

In my experience, my girlfriend, not once but twice (!), was told that she needed to abstain from sex for 21 days so that her energies would not be messed with by me, and in so doing she would find the goddess within!!!??? :shock:

The LGAT leader used as his source for this theory the writings of Carlos Castaneda, Merilyn Tunnenshunde, and Florinda Donner.

Castaneda and Donner appear to have been narcissists and liars of the first degree, while Tunneshunde, supposedly writing about the Don Juan in Castaneda's books, contradicted some of Castaneda's claims, thus casting doubt on the veracity of both of their writings.

It has become obvious to me that the 21-day abstinence was simply a manipulation by the LGAT leader to sever the physical bond between my girlfriend and I; once he was able to do that, he could follow with the other bonds: mental, spiritual, emotional.

He has been trying for a relationship with her for some time. It hasn't happened :lol: , but she is so caught up in his confusing philosophies, having displayed cognitive dissonance time after time to justify following his teachings, that she hasn't seen through him yet.

Also, because he has messed with psychotherapy and hypnotherapy, he has caused some trauma to her which, ever since her first course, has resulted in severe depression, of which one of the symptoms that is very much evident is anhedonia - an inability to take pleasure out life's activities... She struggles to feel.

She cries a lot and is confused about why it is happening, but believes this moron has the answers. It is very disturbing and heart-breaking.

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Intimacy issues with someone who attended LifeSpring
Posted by: anon0820 ()
Date: September 04, 2006 06:24AM

I think my ex broke up with me through the guidance of his LP (Leadership Program) cronies. Apparently, they keep each other 'grounded' if they are 'struggling'.

He would often say if someone couldn't cope with something or they were negative or judgmental about something, they were in their struggle.

Another expression he often used was 'blame, shame and guilt'. He told me that I have all of these and he no longer wants to associate with anyone who has these traits. :shock:

Here are quotes from past emails...sounds like he's brainwashed...

[i:4f92ea0470][list:4f92ea0470]Communicating at the level I wish to CAN create anxiety in someone who is not used to doing so. I am aware of that possibility. And keep in mind that I would never say or do anything to hurt you....or anyone else for that matter. I know am a good kind, caring thoughtful person! and so I believe are you.

I am pretty, pretty...;) sure that you will not meet another man willing to take that kind of risk.....and be that vulnerable and open with you. Remember I don't believe in Judgment any more....nor any negative Opinion, I don't need proof as to why someone IS, or Does, or Says what ever they say. I except them as they the front of me. I will never ever hold anyone in their past, it doesn't serve them or me. This way of being is not always easy ......but the more I practice the longer I can hold myself their......very peaceful, calm, open, honest, positive place for me......this creates confidence in myself, helps me be more aware and clear...and remember, I would never say or do anything to hurt you....)

You are free to do whatever you choose. :-)

Are you creating Guilt,Shame where there is none?........there is if you say so. bla bla bla

How do you feel?

Are you unwilling to take complete responsibility for your behavior? Bla Bla Bla

I'm understanding is that in a healthy partnership relationship there's the friendship part and the lovers part.....two parts....not one without the other. And the Friendship part always standing above all arguments, disagreements and struggles. Always feeling secure that no matter what we are friends and that will see us through the tuff times as well as good.

I believe our friendship is growing and getting's most important I feel.....especially now when we are trying to work through my sex issue.

Do you agree?

Are you saying that you would rather I work on it without your help?

if you don't like the boat rocking, feeling uncomfortable at times, growing, stretching, pushing and expanding self awareness then your hanging with the wrong guy........cause that's what I'm all about.

This quote was after speaking with his woman friend an LP...
I really need to define what my needs are in our relationship. I sometimes get lost in "Letting Go" and "Everything Anyone Does or says is Exactly Perfect" Speech.....And I become very vague......what I want becomes lost or maybe I'm not sure in the first place.....I'm looking at and working on that.

I no longer believe in "Defensiveness or Being a Victim"...........but as she(the LP friend) pointed out to me there aren't a lot of people who have that ability to "Let Go" so sometimes I have to give myself permission to be in the drift like everyone else.

You see my entire life I've objectified woman....seen then as objects to have sex with....I don't what that anymore and so I'm really in uncharted I guess it's fun for some woman to be objectified once in a while but for me all that energy was negative and fueled by Anxiety and I don't want that anymore so I need to find a balance.......a balance between the Anxious energy which fuels my sexual engine and togetherness, intimacy, whatever......I'm not even sure what it is but I want to find it.

I choose not to own anyone else's words or actions....and I give them to power not to own attachment....just freedom to be.

take a moment and think about the things that I constantly talked about………blame and shame and guilt an anger and resentment and holding on to the past….. these are all things that I don’t believe in……there toxic emotions…..especially when used to prove I’m right and the other persons wrong.

Didn’t you notice that when we spoke you kept trying to prove that I was wrong by using blame and guilt and shame all the things I don’t believe in? Didn’t you notice that you where unable to make me feel bad about myself or feel guilty or ashamed…..I wouldn’t buy into it. But……because I feel… don’t understand or can’t comprehend this concept of CHOOSING NOT to use negative emotions to control people.

you’re just acting like a giant VICTIM of Me and MY actions……..and that’s not real……your better then that……it’s only real because you CHOOSE to make it real.

And that’s the part that I feel that you don’t understand. And I was really, really, really hoping you would get it so that we could possibly take our relationship to another level.

I want a partner who will not blame or judge others and who remind ME not to blame or judge others as well. Your blaming and judging me for your feelings right now (my story)……….but guess what…….your feelings are yours and my feelings are mine. And I don’t control yours and you don’t control mine….UNLESS……I give you the power to do so. As your doing to me now ….I don’t want power over you….I want to be equal with you.

One of the things I wrote to myself a few weeks ago was I will no longer let another persons disappointment stop me from doing what I need to do to take care of myself.

To me being disappointed in another person is just another way of trying to lay shame on them. It's actually "Owning the shame of another person in a negative way". It means that "I" was expecting something else of them and when "I" got something different "I" chose to be disappointed. If I'm disappointed then I'm absolutely without a doubt "living in the past"...and holding on tight to it. I ask you....what's the pay off? What do people get by "being disappointed in others"? It's a choice. I can say to myself......Wow that person didn't do what I expected them to do.........I'm so disappointed in them and hang my head and feel bad......Or......I can say to myself......Wow I that was a surprise......I guess there doing the best they can.......let me try and find out why they made that choice and see if will lead me to something different.......Isn't this fun!.....Life's truly and adventure!. Yahoo!!

[b:4f92ea0470]When I asked him what friendship means to him:[/b:4f92ea0470]
I guess I thought we could create something more real, more understanding, each moment then before........guess maybe I was wrong.....I'm not sure now........I have to think on it.....feel on it......

...I decided that at this time we really need to just be friends...............for I can do my workshops and my emotional whatever it is..

But I started to realize that I was just living in the past and being a victim of my own story…..and I was missing out on my life Right Now, Today. Because that’s all that really counts. What am I going to do today to take care of myself… be the happiest person I can be….right now?

And I realized that everything I did in my relationship with her was exactly the right thing ……It had to be!!……..Simply because I could never go back in time and change it…….I learned to accept myself as I am today……mistakes, imperfections and all. I’m perfect just the way I am….and so is everyone else.

I Let Go of the idea that I had the power to change someone else, that I could convince them to change their minds. My truth is I can only change myself. So that’s what I choose to do….as you know.

And I learned that those Coda issues are a direct result of my own interpretations of what a healthy relationship is, I only had my parents as examples and they where not in a healthy relationship with any inkling of a full emotional vocabulary. They believed in being victim of others actions and words, being reactive rather then responsive, using guilt and shame to manipulate and influence people and so on. In fact all my brothers and their wives do it as well….and you know their not even aware of it….and that’s OK.

I imagine many therapists would say their in a healthy relationship…..and you know what….they would be right.

[b:4f92ea0470]Talking about his ex wife and how he coped:[/b:4f92ea0470]
Note: he got involved with LGAT's after his ex walked out on him after 14 years of marriage. They knew each other for 25 years at the time.[/color:4f92ea0470]

Why do I hurt? Because everyone else does in that situation, and that’s just being human?

That doesn’t really answer the WHY DOES IT HURT.

Why does it hurt? That’s the question I asked myself, and dug deep into it until I found the answer.

Don’t dismiss feelings, especially strong ones, simply because everyone else does.

All the answers can be found in the HURT.
If all my feelings and thoughts are a choice….whether conscious or unconscious.

Why did my body choose HURT? Why was I in so much pain? Of course I had all sorts of Proof as to Why, and everyone would agree I was RIGHT to be HURT…..once they heard my story.

And anyone else in that situation would be Hurt, wouldn’t they? But again …..Why choose Hurt.

His answer to 'us' and why we didn't work:
We are on different frequencies, and different journeys
It’s not always easy…to put words on it.

[b:4f92ea0470]And here's the kicker:[/b:4f92ea0470]
If you really want to learn more about now thinking….….in a short period of time.


It took me eight months of therapy and hard work to learn……everything I would have learned in the Basic Workshop…. In three nights and two days. :-p

I asked him what he learned from this workshop:
A great deal.

I learned that I learned nothing about relationships while growing up.

I tried to model my relationships after what I thought were healthy relationships....not knowing any better.

Now I see that's not what I want at all.

Strong feelings are great (even the painful ones). We know we are living when we have them and are able to name them, most importantly.

I encourage you to keep exploring these feelings; the Basic workshop is a great venue to do so from my experience. If you do chose to register I will be sure to be their to support you in any way I can.

Nothing has meaning except the meaning we give it.

What does TRUST mean?
Well….if you believe in me so much, and feel that I would make you a great partner, and all you want now is to be with me……

Why………when I say, the Basic workshop is a great tool to explore your feelings………….are you afraid or have resistance to it? I wouldn’t suggest anything that would harm you, or make you do anything negative, or anything that would cause pain for you, everything is a choice…….nobody forced me to stay in the workshops. I stay and keep going back because I find great value in them for me.

And all I’m suggesting is maybe you will as well. And if your afraid or find it hard to take a leap of faith, trust, I’ll be around to support you. That’s all. If you don’t that’s perfectly fine.

Everything is a choice. Even our feelings and reactions to the people and the things happening around us…..there’s always a choice.

Everything happens exactly the right way.


To be continued....but you get the idea.

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Intimacy issues with someone who attended LifeSpring
Posted by: Samuel ()
Date: September 04, 2006 08:29AM


That sounds just like some of the quotes I got my my ex-wife after she became involved with PSI Seminars.

She destroyed her relationships with me, her family, her friends. She is so lost with the white light and workshops it has destroyed any part of her critical thinking.

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Intimacy issues with someone who attended LifeSpring
Posted by: anon0820 ()
Date: September 04, 2006 10:19AM

When I realized what was REALLY going on with my ex and finding this website, I sent him this email:

[list:0ad132feb0][i:0ad132feb0]I have to be honest with you. This does not sound right to me... from my reality. I am about to tell you the following because I care a great deal for you and see things that you may not.

I fear that you are deeply, very deeply involved with a mind control LGAT (Large Group Awareness Training)... you now look at those who haven't participated as outsiders...dysfunctional ones...lacking whatever you feel you achieved in these workshops / camps. Personal Dynamics is an offshoot of LifeSpring. LifeSpring closed down because of 'issues'. After that, several other companies such as Personal Dynamics cropped up around the country as LifeSpring wannabes. They were created from people who attended LifeSpring and wanted to keep the 'word' going to others. The leadership program encourages others to spread the word...staffing and recruiting. This is not just one person's opinion. There are books and investigators researching and exposing these organizations. Sounds cultlike to me.

You are a smart guy with a lot to offer. You like to read.. well then read the website... read articles from some of the forums about the LGAT's. You will find similarities to the workshops you are attending.

Now...AAAAAHHHH.... NOW, it is totally clear to me why you broke up with me. I have to thank you. Thank you for this. You ARE right that we are on different frequencies. I just didn't get 'IT' until now.

I have a choice to change my word and still have integrity and accountability... I am not going to the guest event on Thursday.

I hope you find what you are looking for and seek the help you need getting it. I certainly did.


His response:
The only mind being controlled is my mind being controlled by me.

I know what my experience was and is.

I simply asked that you trust me (yourself), and you either choose too or not too, either choice is perfectly fine with me.

I don’t require, nor did I ask for proof as to why. I trust you know what’s best for you.

Why choose to TRUST the opinions, experiences of persons you never met over the ones of a person you say you love?

I’m a Google expert you know that….I did all the research, just as you’re doing……letting go of fear of the unknown is a big part of growing out of our boxes.

In the end I had to trust in myself. I wanted to grow and knew that getting out of my comfort zone was the path I wanted to take.

Keep going…..remember I’m always here to support you.

[b:0ad132feb0]When I realized he was to far gone into this cult, I bailed with dignity:[/b:0ad132feb0]
I am now enlightened... everything is perfect. Like when the sun shines brightly after a more struggling to try and understand. :-) I GOT IT.

I trust myself FULLY. I love myself FULLY. I trust my gut instinct FULLY.

Good luck in your quest for a higher being and understanding.

Take care of yourself.

[b:0ad132feb0]He sent one more email and I CHOSE [/color:0ad132feb0]8) not to reply:[/b:0ad132feb0]
One thing to keep in mind is the fact that both my Mom and my Brother took the Basic workshop.

And amazingly enough neither one of them became brainwashed or joined a cult, they did however both emphatically agree that it was one of the Best experiences of their lives.

So….I don’t know anything….but I do know that You have more self awareness and self control then my Mom and your smarter…..I think you could handle it….if you ever chose to.


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Intimacy issues with someone who attended LifeSpring
Posted by: Brad69 ()
Date: September 04, 2006 01:07PM

The part that totally freaks me out is how these LGATs are able to re-interpret someone's frame of reference so quickly, to the point that they reject the intimacy and experiences one has shared with another person in a relationship.

Now, we are talking about all sorts of relationships - with boyfriends or girlfriends, with husbands or wives, with mothers and fathers, with children.

When that redefining of relationships includes rejecting all those that previously existed as healthy relationships in a person's life then, to me, this is one of the clearest signs of coercive persuasion.

On the part of the LGATs, it is heartless, manipulative, and just plain wrong.

Without LGATs and their leaders knowing the intimate details of people's lives, without them knowing those not involved in the LGAT, they go out and smear them as those who are preventing the LGAT participant from achieving his/her potential.

And there we see the us-versus-them scenario created - one of the traits of coercive persuasion.

This is not empowering people. This is divide and conquer.

And this is ruining many lives.

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Intimacy issues with someone who attended LifeSpring
Posted by: anon0820 ()
Date: September 04, 2006 06:55PM

My ex told me once that the greatest gift he can give me is the Basic workshop. :shock:

Another time, he was so excited to tell me that the Basic workshop was 'free' and he [i:9dd79a437d]'subtly' [/i:9dd79a437d]wanted me to go. He also wanted a friend of mine to go as well. She was going through a tough time with being unemployed. He thought...there's NO excuse now because it won't 'cost' anything.

[i:9dd79a437d]Scary stuff.[/color:9dd79a437d][/i:9dd79a437d] :twisted:

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Intimacy issues with someone who attended LifeSpring
Posted by: anon0820 ()
Date: September 04, 2006 07:18PM

Here's another email correspondence...

[b:fbc9c7e53e]My email:[/b:fbc9c7e53e]
[i:fbc9c7e53e]What did you learn? Why is it a secret as to what exercises are performed at PD or the Warrior Camp? Just me being the analyst.[/i:fbc9c7e53e]

[b:fbc9c7e53e]His response:[/b:fbc9c7e53e]
[i:fbc9c7e53e]Because the first thing they ask you to do is to agree to not telling anyone about the exercises in the workshops, as to not ruin the experience for others if they choose to attend someday.

And I agreed along with everyone else who attended, you can't attend if you don't agree. And that's ALL about INTEGRITY and being ACCOUNTABLE to my word. Keeping my word no matter what, no matter how small or big the promise.

And that's something I never experienced growing up so it's very important to me that I DO keep my WORD.

There was no accountability or integrity in my life what so ever growing up.

I hope you understand?[/i:fbc9c7e53e]

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